63mako

This post is not meant to insult anyone. I admire the builders that put together a 600 HP small block or a 800 HP big block and street drive them. That would be a blast. Just shedding some light on a recurring situation that I noticed. Streetability, durability of the drivetrain, ease of maintanance, tuning and longevity on a tight budget is sometimes better served with modest, well matched improvements.

ram82fire

A truly sensible topic , with a great deal of helpful input .


Gman

ford4play

63mako- i find this to be a great post. When i built my first motor(pontiac 400) i had my choices ripped apart. I could have bought so much more for almost the same money, but for me it was a matter of tuning. Why buy the big single plane intake that pulls to 7000 when the cam i was gonna use maxed out at 5500. Its all a matter of choices, and having the bigger picture in mind. The big carbs are impressive, but if it doesn't match what you have, then why run it? It just doesn't make much sense. I think most people have a $ in their head on what they would pay for a big hp motor, then buy the best stuff they can for the money without ever realizing the nothing matches.
I'll end here since I really don't want to rant. BTW- the pontiac I built, ended up knocking off 2 sec. on my 1/4 mile time. I ran a 14.4 but with the factory 2.41 rear gears.(i now have 3.73's but never ran at the track) I really don't think that was bad considering the gear, and it was very reliable, and so easy to maintain. It's all a matter of good decisions,and has nothing to do with how much money you have or how much hp your motor makes in theory.

TimAT

I HAVE one of those PITA high HP big blocks. And it truly is a PITA*. Valve adjustments, tweaking here and there on the timing or carb, trying new this or that for a little more- it's a constant thing. For me, personally, I wouldn't change a thing. I'm at the point I'm looking seriously at an aluminum block to go with my aluminum heads.

It's therapy. I'd never advise anyone to do the same thing.

If you want a little more, go a little bit more. But be prepared to get a bit more aggressive with your maintenance. And be ready to lose a little reliability. The combinations GM originally produced were designed so they didn't have a ton of warranty claims, but still enough to keep the dealers in business.

MotorHead

He must be talking about you Mike, cause while my Vic Jrs are 220cc, I run 11:1CR and have a big single plane intake, my Race Demon flows 975cfm not 900cfm

Seriously though I agree with some of what you say, I don't think it is a good idea to jump from a stock L48 to a 600HP roller motor unless you really know your way around under the hood. I didn't do that either. It was done in steps, starting after I could shake a 92 Cavalier with my stock L48. First it was a rebuild with a HP cam. Then came heads, headers, bigger carb and on and on. It was alot of fun doing it that way as money would allow. Bolting on parts and seeing how much power they made. Got the ol' L48 up to 300 RWHP and 330RWT.

Finally after eight years of owning my Vette I went a little radical and built the 406ci solid roller motor which is now in my Vette. If I had put this motor in my Vette when I first got it, it probably wouldn'y have lasted more than six months because I didn't know what I know now about small blocks. It is a hobby for me, I am currently building a 427ci small block. If someone asks me how to make some power, I will tell them, that's what they are asking. I will also warn them about the downside of big HP motors too.

63 Mako, I remember posting something similar to what you posted many years ago here, can't remember exactly what I said but it was something about the fact that all these big HP numbers were being thrown around and 400HP was nothing and that 13 seconds in the quarter mile seemed slow these days because of all the BS being posted. I think I said that 13 seconds in the 1/4 mile was smoking fast and how many had actually gone that fast, any way starting to ramble here, good post

Ironcross

sort of anyway as I constantly change to the bigger but I also have some small ones I guess. Beginning with these mild to wild numbers including LT1, L72, L78, L88, LS7, and even a A990 for the hemi group. Topping it off in an obnoxious manner for those who love the smell and noise of nitro, a supercharged fuel Donovan. A toy for every occasion. No here. The three SS baby Vettes have all the good big stuff as you can see. Also note the "Iron Cross" clearly visable on the roadsters fuel tank.

"Winning isn`t everything, its the only thing"

Oldguard 7

YOUR cars, YOUR money, do whatever YOU WANT to do to and with YOUR cars.

63mako

My comments were concerning advice to use fairly extreme race type parts given to people looking for moderate street performance gains. I am shooting for around 500 HP plus a 150 HP nitrous shot with my setup but am building with well matched high performance parts and drivetrain upgrades thoughout. Dyno sheets coming soon!I give up!

Oldguard 7

I understand what you're saying. I read your threads all the time.

zaphodbebullbrox

i have never been drag racing,
i have never been autocrossing,
but i have taken my 1980 corvette, with a basiclly stock low hp engine (from the factory) removed all smog and emmisions, added small cam and dual plane intake with aftermaket carb, to the road track and out drove the 400hp and 500hp drivers.

you can have all the hp in the world but it you don't know how to handle it its worthless. learn to drive fast with less hp and then move up. theres a reason more people are wrecking new corvette faster than ever and that why the factory came up with "active handling".

my 1 cent, hope it make cents to you.

Budman68

I blame car mags for most of this. Hot Rod just published an article about a 600+hp 383 and didn't say a thing about it being a full out race motor. They give you the part#, etc and send you on the way to misery. The only good thing that came out of the article was some new better flowing heads for larger cubic inch motors.

You ever try to tool around town in a loose stall convertor and high lift cam? It's not the easiest ride and you will play hell trying to get your wife to ride along.

BTW - Some of the baddest rides I have ever riden in have been stock. The baddest being a 73 SD455 4-speed TA, 70 1/2 Z28 Camaro, and Buick GN on cold night. All stock and the all will scare the crap out of you.

73-84 IMSA Widebody

Good advice Mako......but the wife ain't buyin' it

Yellow73SB

My ~450 hp 355 is a perfect combination to my car. With the tires I have it won't spin the tires at all , but this is nice becuase you don't get caught up doing burnouts and getting trouble.

Also people bs about there motors hp way too much. Or im under estimating mine. Some guy said he has 425 hp with a .486 cam and 9.8:1 compression on his 350. Mine has a .550 lift 236* cam and 11:5 compression and I estimate 450. Sorry got carried off.

And my motor is kind of a pita to drive becuase of the 2200 stall converter. Atleast it helps me not break parts.

Little Mouse

I saw that artical in hot rod lowest torque they showed was at 4,600
rpm 499 lb ft, 528 lb ft at 5200. I wonder what my old 302 Z/28
put out for torque good thing they offered no auto trans for it.
That thing below 4000 rpm would do nothing probably had 150
lb ft below 4000 rpm and had to pull a 3450 lb car.

red money pit

I am probably a perfect example of what this thread is about. I am newbie, almost no mechanical experience, and have never had a car that could be considered performance. I bought a mostly stock 79 L-82 two years ago and have been monitoring this site ever since. I have posted questions about how to get more HP, got some books, and found a good mechanic.

It took awhile, but it started to become obvious what I wanted to get out of my car but I read a thousand posts to get there. Last fall I purchased Edlebrocks package of intake manifold, heads, and cam. Also installed headers, rebuilt clutch and transmission. I am very lucky that I was able to find a trustworthy mechanic who not only does good work for a reasonable price but also kept me in-line and from doing something stupid. I am now a firm beliver that if you don't know what your are doing (me!!) buy components matched and engineered by someone who does.

The car runs great. I don't know how much HP or torque, and don't really care. However, it is it is a kick to to drop the clutch at 3 grand and slam through the gears. My second childhood only this time I have money!

I just recently purchased a 73 Nova that someone has put a 454 into, it is fast now. I am still thinking on what to do with this car.

Edzred72

Well said and right on target Kevin.
I too asked for recommendations for my 406 build a while back and got numerous wild NHRA Pro Stock part numbers.
I had some previous build expierence so was able to dismiss/ignore the solid 600lift 230cc advise and choose the components suited for MY REQUIREMENTS. Much of that radical component advise came from those that IGNORED the beginning of my post that clearly stated my desire for well mannered low maintenance street motor. I have the skill to maintain those "tinker all day" motors, but just don't want to. many here did give good solid avise, (especially you) and i used that info. Thanks to all who helped!!
Knowledge is power, so I spent tons of time reading every engine build book I could find. This helped me to make educated selections for components that suit the intended purpose. I highly recommend RESEARCH for all those contemplating an engine build.
WAY too many DIY guys wanting power, just want to sit back behind the computer and be told what to buy, without any desire to know how it works or why it works.
My rant is over.....
Eddie

MotorHead

You did buy the correct bigger heads though didn't you.. AFR 210's ?

Just a observation on my part to add to this thread. Some of the advice given about building bigger inch small block engines has to be info that was read or someone told them.

Way too much misinformation and myths out there. You don't put 180cc heads on 406+ci motors period, you won't get more torque like one of the myths promises.

When building these motors you need to look at where the advice is coming from and look to see if the person giving this advice has actually built a motor that is similar to the one you want build.

76project

OK, I have been thinking some what along the same lines for My 76. It is a dog, you hit the gas and get out an push. My son has a 70 roadrunner with a 383 that screams. I would like something in the middle. I want it to run good, throw me back into the seat a little, but I am not trying to be the fastest car in town. So what is a good horsepower to shoot for? 300? 350HP? I really don't want to reinvent the wheel, just a good seat of the pants feel.
What are you middle of the HP pack running (cam, heads, carb, Intake, Etc...what brand)?
I am about to start on Mine.
Thanks

63mako

Eddie's 406 will probably be a good, stong runner and pull hard up to his 6000 RPM goal! He bought the AFR 210 heads and I agree that a 180 head is NOT a good option for a 406. But he does have a 3.08 gear and a ST 10 4 speed, He said he does not ever expect to run past 6000 RPM. He also wanted good grunt at low and midrange RPM for his mostly in town driving. AFR heads flow better than other heads with the same intake runner size especially at lower lifts. Taking all this into account he may have gotten better performance at his chosen working RPM range with the AFR 195 eliminator heads due to better port velocity. We will never know! This is EXACTLY what I am talking about. Properly matched components also have to take into account the intended use and drivetrain ratios. With a TKO 500 or TKO 600 and the better ratios that come along with that upgrade or going to a 3.55 or 3.73 gear the 210 heads may be a better choice due to getting into the higher RPM's quicker and I believe one of those upgrades is also in Eddie's future!

63mako

www.ryanscarpage.50megs.com/combos1.html Check this site. Over 100 dyno tested street combinations. 9.5 to 10 to 1 compression, A 383 stroker kit, hydraulic roller, good dual plane intake, headers, properly curved distributor and well built quadrajet will get you where you want to be and be streetable, dependable and low maintainance. Best off starting a new post for this and specify your trans, rear end ratios and goals!