Aluminum A Arm Field Reports?
12-27-2006, 02:09 PM
#22
To raise the roll center you need to increase the length of the spindle or lower the inner mounting point of the upper A arm.
I feel both are difficult to do with a bolt in A arm.
To increase the splindle length with just the A arm they would need a special long upper Ball joint, not one with a lower pivot point.
While the change could be valid they could also be so small that they wouldn't be noticed
The only way would be redrilling the inner mounting for the A arm and lowering this point
It still suprised me that no one has come up with longer spindles??
I feel both are difficult to do with a bolt in A arm.
To increase the splindle length with just the A arm they would need a special long upper Ball joint, not one with a lower pivot point.
While the change could be valid they could also be so small that they wouldn't be noticed
The only way would be redrilling the inner mounting for the A arm and lowering this point
It still suprised me that no one has come up with longer spindles??
Now, we both have "extended" spindles so we are in the 1st category, we both raised our roll centers.
I too feel it's a small difference w/ the offset cross shaft but it will put the ic inboard and improve things IF you install them w/ the offset down (lowering the effective cross shaft axis..like visible in the pics), this will raise the roll center so .... where do theyc ome up w/ the statement that it lowers the roll center? Maybe it was something that "sounded" good for advertising sake?
EDIT!! reread the post, they apparently said it raised the roll center so yes, they are right. Raising the roll center/ moving the instantaneous system..things norval and I have been plugging here for quite some time, wether you do it w/ a taller spindle or dropped cross shaft doesn't matter (although you have to raise the spindle considerably more than dropping the cross shaft for the same absolute effect)
Originally Posted by norvalwilhelm
You draw a line through the pivot points on the A arms so does it really matter how low you make the bracket. You still have the same pivot points so it doesn't change the slope of the curve just the visual appearance of the top of the A arm.
Last edited by Twin_Turbo; 12-27-2006 at 02:12 PM.
12-27-2006, 02:27 PM
#23
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
How could I determine if the amount the SD crosshaft raises the roll center is enough to improve performance enough that I could sense a difference?
12-27-2006, 05:46 PM
#24
Melting Slicks
[QUOTE=norvalwilhelm;1558266163]Yes I know but I was able to produce these relatively easily and they are 1 1/2 inch longer then stock. QUOTE]Norval, the extenders will raise my ball joints 2" vs. your 1.5". Is the extra 1/2" going to absolutely kill my geometry? If moving the ball joint up 2" will make the camber go extremely negative, won't your longer spindles do pretty much the same thing? Am I missing something? You welded yours in vs. the extenders bolting in .... is it all in the extra 1/2" length? Thanks, Jason
12-27-2006, 06:39 PM
#25
Le Mans Master
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St. Jude Donor '07
Yes I know but I was able to produce these relatively easily and they are 1 1/2 inch longer then stock. If I was more ambitious I would mass produce them.
They use all stock components and yet raise the roll center from below the ground to about 4 inches above the ground.
We had a fantastic guy Pete that helped with alot of this stuff
They use all stock components and yet raise the roll center from below the ground to about 4 inches above the ground.
We had a fantastic guy Pete that helped with alot of this stuff
12-27-2006, 09:31 PM
#26
Race Director
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[QUOTE=Jason Staley;1558269513]
I just read a magazine article on the increase in camber and they found it slightly excessive. They suggested just a little less thickness.
I have run a camber curve on mine when I built the spindles and only got a few degrees.
You should be able to find that magazine article if you do a google search on ball joint extenders.
Yes I know but I was able to produce these relatively easily and they are 1 1/2 inch longer then stock. QUOTE]Norval, the extenders will raise my ball joints 2" vs. your 1.5". Is the extra 1/2" going to absolutely kill my geometry? If moving the ball joint up 2" will make the camber go extremely negative, won't your longer spindles do pretty much the same thing? Am I missing something? You welded yours in vs. the extenders bolting in .... is it all in the extra 1/2" length? Thanks, Jason
I have run a camber curve on mine when I built the spindles and only got a few degrees.
You should be able to find that magazine article if you do a google search on ball joint extenders.
12-27-2006, 11:22 PM
#29
Drifting
They use these on Impala's with hydraulic cylinders for shocks...
The welds look good... I did strip the powder coating off and inspect them. good penitration and nice fillet. I'm still welding on the lowers... I gotta make some 316 STAINLESS STEEL cross shafts for the lowers.
I cant see the aluminum cross shafts in the picture but sharp edges bother me.. Howsabout some nice radii and a little more meat in the aluminum
Now you have gone and made me nervous... I guess I'll just have to take'm to work and x-ray the welds
The welds look good... I did strip the powder coating off and inspect them. good penitration and nice fillet. I'm still welding on the lowers... I gotta make some 316 STAINLESS STEEL cross shafts for the lowers.
I cant see the aluminum cross shafts in the picture but sharp edges bother me.. Howsabout some nice radii and a little more meat in the aluminum
Now you have gone and made me nervous... I guess I'll just have to take'm to work and x-ray the welds
12-27-2006, 11:33 PM
#30
Melting Slicks
I like the idea of the stamped steel stock ones that would actually have to tear into 2 pieces before letting the wheel detach.
12-28-2006, 08:42 AM
#31
Melting Slicks
[QUOTE=norvalwilhelm;1558272417]
I just read a magazine article on the increase in camber and they found it slightly excessive. They suggested just a little less thickness.
I have run a camber curve on mine when I built the spindles and only got a few degrees.
You should be able to find that magazine article if you do a google search on ball joint extenders.
Thanks, I'll give that a shot.
I just read a magazine article on the increase in camber and they found it slightly excessive. They suggested just a little less thickness.
I have run a camber curve on mine when I built the spindles and only got a few degrees.
You should be able to find that magazine article if you do a google search on ball joint extenders.
12-28-2006, 09:33 AM
#32
Drifting
I thought about these A-arms, but they don't look beefy enough. They probably are, but I went with the VBP powder coated tubular high carbon steel set:
http://www.vbandp.com/detail.aspx?ID=518
http://www.vbandp.com/detail.aspx?ID=518
12-28-2006, 09:38 AM
#33
Le Mans Master
I thought about these A-arms, but they don't look beefy enough. They probably are, but I went with the VBP powder coated tubular high carbon steel set:
http://www.vbandp.com/detail.aspx?ID=518
http://www.vbandp.com/detail.aspx?ID=518
Same here.
12-28-2006, 12:06 PM
#35
square tubing isn't that strong either, ever wondered why race cars habe frame extensions made from square steel? because in a crash it will collapse a lot sooner than the round tubing, meaning the damage is confined to those sections (we're talking about a crash but not a major crash here) and it's easier to rebuild the car. Same reason why square sections in a roll cageare absolutely out of the question.
12-28-2006, 01:50 PM
#37
Safety Car
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St. Jude Donor '07,'13
Vbp New A-arm Update
We have a new design tubular upper control arm with an adjustable steel offset cross shaft that we are now releasing to production (featured in our new 2007 catalog and January and February magazine ads). Our new set is 2 lbs. lighter than our older box-tube style and is priced at $389.95 for the pair complete with poly bushings and ball joints installed.
BEST OF ALL we are completing the final testing stages of our newer tubular design with aluminum offset cross shafts. This will make the new set 5/8 of a pound lighter than ANY OTHER SET ON THE MARKET . We are just finalizing the strength tests on the aluminum shaft and then this new set will be released to production and they will be priced at $499.95 for a pair also sold complete with poly bushings and ball joints installed. And don't forget we offer forum members a 10% discount
Send me an email directly to pattie@vbandp.com and I will email you back a pic. They are really sweeeeeeet!!
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!
Pattie
VBP
BEST OF ALL we are completing the final testing stages of our newer tubular design with aluminum offset cross shafts. This will make the new set 5/8 of a pound lighter than ANY OTHER SET ON THE MARKET . We are just finalizing the strength tests on the aluminum shaft and then this new set will be released to production and they will be priced at $499.95 for a pair also sold complete with poly bushings and ball joints installed. And don't forget we offer forum members a 10% discount
Send me an email directly to pattie@vbandp.com and I will email you back a pic. They are really sweeeeeeet!!
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!
Pattie
VBP
12-28-2006, 01:59 PM
#38
I would be amazed if they are lighter than the super light adjustable savitske/pole position racing products adjustable ones equipped w/ lightweight alu sleeves and cross shaft...seriously
However, since those are "not for everyone" sounds like a great product.
However, since those are "not for everyone" sounds like a great product.
12-28-2006, 03:50 PM
#39
Safety Car
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St. Jude Donor '07,'13
O.k. You Got Me
O.K. I guess you got me. 
I checked their website and they are pretty fancy control arms, looks good though, and you are right not for everyone.
Pattie
VBP
I checked their website and they are pretty fancy control arms, looks good though, and you are right not for everyone.
Pattie
VBP
12-28-2006, 04:15 PM
#40
Burning Brakes
We have a new design tubular upper control arm with an adjustable steel offset cross shaft that we are now releasing to production (featured in our new 2007 catalog and January and February magazine ads). Our new set is 2 lbs. lighter than our older box-tube style and is priced at $389.95 for the pair complete with poly bushings and ball joints installed.
BEST OF ALL we are completing the final testing stages of our newer tubular design with aluminum offset cross shafts. This will make the new set 5/8 of a pound lighter than ANY OTHER SET ON THE MARKET . We are just finalizing the strength tests on the aluminum shaft and then this new set will be released to production and they will be priced at $499.95 for a pair also sold complete with poly bushings and ball joints installed. And don't forget we offer forum members a 10% discount
Send me an email directly to pattie@vbandp.com and I will email you back a pic. They are really sweeeeeeet!!
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!
Pattie
VBP
BEST OF ALL we are completing the final testing stages of our newer tubular design with aluminum offset cross shafts. This will make the new set 5/8 of a pound lighter than ANY OTHER SET ON THE MARKET . We are just finalizing the strength tests on the aluminum shaft and then this new set will be released to production and they will be priced at $499.95 for a pair also sold complete with poly bushings and ball joints installed. And don't forget we offer forum members a 10% discount
Send me an email directly to pattie@vbandp.com and I will email you back a pic. They are really sweeeeeeet!!
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!
Pattie
VBP
