The Keisler Experience
09-01-2005, 09:20 AM
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The Keisler Experience
First, the intent of my post is to provide the facts of my kit purchase and install experience so you can make your own decisions. One note about my capabilities....I am an ASE Certified Master Tech with 25 years experience. With this in mind...here it goes.....
I purchased the TKO-500 kit for my '78 L-82. The car was already a 4spd. After a 5 week waiting period, the kit arrived and I was impressed with the packaging and labeling of the kit contents. I immediately noticed the driveshaft did not have any balancing weights welded to it. I called customer service and questioned this...the reply was "all of our driveshafts are spun to 10,000 rpm and balanced". I found this odd considering the equipment used to balance driveshafts only spin to a max of 3500 rpm, and, in my 25 years of working on cars...I personally have not seen a driveshaft that balanced perfectly without any weights (I have heard it does happen though). With this in mind, I accepted the statement the shaft was balanced.
The installation instructions are well written and allows a person with average mechanical skills to install the trans without having to remove the engine. It IS a tight fit...but it does work.
The kit is complete and all of the hardware required to perform the install is provided.
Once the install was complete, I took it for a test ride. I had a significant driveline vibration that would come in at about 70mph. I chased this vibration for over a month. I spent countless hours shimming and un-shimming the trans height to correct for an excessive u-joint angle (I also have extensive experience in setting driveline angles). I was never able to completely eliminate the vibration.
After numerous phonecalls to Keisler, they finally agreed to bringing the car to a Corvette specialty shop located 4 hours from home that had experience installing Keisler kits (but they do not use Keisler driveshafts). They also agreed to pay for 2 hours of troubleshooting to locate and fix the problem. Long story short here....(I left the car with them for a month) the shop re-shimmed the trans up to within an 1/8" of the tunnel (been there before) and sent the driveshaft out to be balanced. The driveshaft was returned WITH significant weights added to each end. The shaft had never been balanced when it was manufactured. Result....Vibration now gone! Car drives great!
After speaking with numerous folks that have installed Keisler kits, none of the providied driveshafts have weights on them.
Keisler agreed with the shop to pay for the 2 hours and the balancing. Unfortunately, I also ended up paying over $100 to the shop for their time. Couple that with the two trailer rentals to drop off and pick up the car. I now have over $400 into this effort in addition to the cost of the kit. I accept the additional costs...but I am frustrated overall that I incurred additional costs all as a result of the "balanced" driveshaft not being balanced. I spoke with one rep from Keisler concerning the costs associated with this and his reply was (with some sarcasim) "you could have driven it there, just not go fast enough to feel the vibration". My rationale was...I didn't know where the vibration was being generated and didn't want to induce any further damage as a result of driving it.
In any case, the car nows drives great! I really enjoy the reduced engine rpm....and no vibration! The kit is complete, fits well and looks good. I would personally recommend having the provided driveshaft balanced prior to installing in your car or have your own made. You may avoid a lot of frustration chasing a vibration as I did.
I purchased the TKO-500 kit for my '78 L-82. The car was already a 4spd. After a 5 week waiting period, the kit arrived and I was impressed with the packaging and labeling of the kit contents. I immediately noticed the driveshaft did not have any balancing weights welded to it. I called customer service and questioned this...the reply was "all of our driveshafts are spun to 10,000 rpm and balanced". I found this odd considering the equipment used to balance driveshafts only spin to a max of 3500 rpm, and, in my 25 years of working on cars...I personally have not seen a driveshaft that balanced perfectly without any weights (I have heard it does happen though). With this in mind, I accepted the statement the shaft was balanced.
The installation instructions are well written and allows a person with average mechanical skills to install the trans without having to remove the engine. It IS a tight fit...but it does work.
The kit is complete and all of the hardware required to perform the install is provided.
Once the install was complete, I took it for a test ride. I had a significant driveline vibration that would come in at about 70mph. I chased this vibration for over a month. I spent countless hours shimming and un-shimming the trans height to correct for an excessive u-joint angle (I also have extensive experience in setting driveline angles). I was never able to completely eliminate the vibration.
After numerous phonecalls to Keisler, they finally agreed to bringing the car to a Corvette specialty shop located 4 hours from home that had experience installing Keisler kits (but they do not use Keisler driveshafts). They also agreed to pay for 2 hours of troubleshooting to locate and fix the problem. Long story short here....(I left the car with them for a month) the shop re-shimmed the trans up to within an 1/8" of the tunnel (been there before) and sent the driveshaft out to be balanced. The driveshaft was returned WITH significant weights added to each end. The shaft had never been balanced when it was manufactured. Result....Vibration now gone! Car drives great!
After speaking with numerous folks that have installed Keisler kits, none of the providied driveshafts have weights on them.
Keisler agreed with the shop to pay for the 2 hours and the balancing. Unfortunately, I also ended up paying over $100 to the shop for their time. Couple that with the two trailer rentals to drop off and pick up the car. I now have over $400 into this effort in addition to the cost of the kit. I accept the additional costs...but I am frustrated overall that I incurred additional costs all as a result of the "balanced" driveshaft not being balanced. I spoke with one rep from Keisler concerning the costs associated with this and his reply was (with some sarcasim) "you could have driven it there, just not go fast enough to feel the vibration". My rationale was...I didn't know where the vibration was being generated and didn't want to induce any further damage as a result of driving it.
In any case, the car nows drives great! I really enjoy the reduced engine rpm....and no vibration! The kit is complete, fits well and looks good. I would personally recommend having the provided driveshaft balanced prior to installing in your car or have your own made. You may avoid a lot of frustration chasing a vibration as I did.
09-01-2005, 09:28 AM
#2
Le Mans Master
I've been reading all of the Keisler posts trying to decide yay or nay.
There have been so many "gotcha's" that I can't keep track of them anymore. Maybe we need a FAQ blog on the product. On one hand, I applaud the company for identifying a "need" and supplying us with yet another toy to play with. But the gotcha's are starting to pile up. If we had an independent one-point source of info, that would help us all focus.
I know, Keisler should be the ones to iron all of this out BEFORE they sell us the product, but that just ain't gonna happen, apparently.
There have been so many "gotcha's" that I can't keep track of them anymore. Maybe we need a FAQ blog on the product. On one hand, I applaud the company for identifying a "need" and supplying us with yet another toy to play with. But the gotcha's are starting to pile up. If we had an independent one-point source of info, that would help us all focus.
I know, Keisler should be the ones to iron all of this out BEFORE they sell us the product, but that just ain't gonna happen, apparently.
09-01-2005, 09:48 AM
#3
Been reading as well,and my conclusion is there will be "fit up" issues due to some variances Vette to Vette. But when a customer gets BS on the phone,well,that kills it for me.The drive shaft balance story is a good one....would not expect shaft to be balanced so fine that it would be done with a paper clip, but it should be balanced....
This from their site:
.NO BULL ... 100% CUSTOMER SATISFACTION GUARANTEED
This from their site:
.NO BULL ... 100% CUSTOMER SATISFACTION GUARANTEED
Last edited by rihwoods; 09-01-2005 at 09:59 AM.
09-01-2005, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by rihwoods
This from their site:
.NO BULL ... 100% CUSTOMER SATISFACTION GUARANTEED
.NO BULL ... 100% CUSTOMER SATISFACTION GUARANTEED
09-01-2005, 01:57 PM
#6
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Offline, I have heard others REALLY question that claim from them about the 10,000 RPM on the driveline. A lot of guys just dont belive it.
The good news now is that Classic Chevy 5-Speed has the C1, C2, C3 not cut/mod kits for the Tremec 5-Speed.
www.ClassicChevy5Speed.com
They have great tech service (before and after the sale) plus orders ship within a week.
Good that there is another company people can go to.
Clubber
The good news now is that Classic Chevy 5-Speed has the C1, C2, C3 not cut/mod kits for the Tremec 5-Speed.
www.ClassicChevy5Speed.com
They have great tech service (before and after the sale) plus orders ship within a week.
Good that there is another company people can go to.
Clubber
09-01-2005, 02:12 PM
#8
09-01-2005, 02:55 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
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I'm going to look at my drive shaft. I get a very faint vibration under about 2000 rpm's Only going through first gears. I never notice if the drive shaft had any weights.
09-01-2005, 02:59 PM
#10
Safety Car
Originally Posted by Brown78
I'm going to look at my drive shaft. I get a very faint vibration under about 2000 rpm's Only going through first gears. I never notice if the drive shaft had any weights.
Not saying you don't have an issue with the driveshaft at all, but it does not fit what you describe.
09-01-2005, 03:31 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by Harleydude51
First, the intent of my post is to provide the facts of my kit purchase and install experience so you can make your own decisions. One note about my capabilities....I am an ASE Certified Master Tech with 25 years experience. With this in mind...here it goes.....
I purchased the TKO-500 kit for my '78 L-82. The car was already a 4spd. After a 5 week waiting period, the kit arrived and I was impressed with the packaging and labeling of the kit contents. I immediately noticed the driveshaft did not have any balancing weights welded to it. I called customer service and questioned this...the reply was "all of our driveshafts are spun to 10,000 rpm and balanced". I found this odd considering the equipment used to balance driveshafts only spin to a max of 3500 rpm, and, in my 25 years of working on cars...I personally have not seen a driveshaft that balanced perfectly without any weights (I have heard it does happen though). With this in mind, I accepted the statement the shaft was balanced.
The installation instructions are well written and allows a person with average mechanical skills to install the trans without having to remove the engine. It IS a tight fit...but it does work.
The kit is complete and all of the hardware required to perform the install is provided.
Once the install was complete, I took it for a test ride. I had a significant driveline vibration that would come in at about 70mph. I chased this vibration for over a month. I spent countless hours shimming and un-shimming the trans height to correct for an excessive u-joint angle (I also have extensive experience in setting driveline angles). I was never able to completely eliminate the vibration.
After numerous phonecalls to Keisler, they finally agreed to bringing the car to a Corvette specialty shop located 4 hours from home that had experience installing Keisler kits (but they do not use Keisler driveshafts). They also agreed to pay for 2 hours of troubleshooting to locate and fix the problem. Long story short here....(I left the car with them for a month) the shop re-shimmed the trans up to within an 1/8" of the tunnel (been there before) and sent the driveshaft out to be balanced. The driveshaft was returned WITH significant weights added to each end. The shaft had never been balanced when it was manufactured. Result....Vibration now gone! Car drives great!
After speaking with numerous folks that have installed Keisler kits, none of the providied driveshafts have weights on them.
Keisler agreed with the shop to pay for the 2 hours and the balancing. Unfortunately, I also ended up paying over $100 to the shop for their time. Couple that with the two trailer rentals to drop off and pick up the car. I now have over $400 into this effort in addition to the cost of the kit. I accept the additional costs...but I am frustrated overall that I incurred additional costs all as a result of the "balanced" driveshaft not being balanced. I spoke with one rep from Keisler concerning the costs associated with this and his reply was (with some sarcasim) "you could have driven it there, just not go fast enough to feel the vibration". My rationale was...I didn't know where the vibration was being generated and didn't want to induce any further damage as a result of driving it.
In any case, the car nows drives great! I really enjoy the reduced engine rpm....and no vibration! The kit is complete, fits well and looks good. I would personally recommend having the provided driveshaft balanced prior to installing in your car or have your own made. You may avoid a lot of frustration chasing a vibration as I did.
I purchased the TKO-500 kit for my '78 L-82. The car was already a 4spd. After a 5 week waiting period, the kit arrived and I was impressed with the packaging and labeling of the kit contents. I immediately noticed the driveshaft did not have any balancing weights welded to it. I called customer service and questioned this...the reply was "all of our driveshafts are spun to 10,000 rpm and balanced". I found this odd considering the equipment used to balance driveshafts only spin to a max of 3500 rpm, and, in my 25 years of working on cars...I personally have not seen a driveshaft that balanced perfectly without any weights (I have heard it does happen though). With this in mind, I accepted the statement the shaft was balanced.
The installation instructions are well written and allows a person with average mechanical skills to install the trans without having to remove the engine. It IS a tight fit...but it does work.
The kit is complete and all of the hardware required to perform the install is provided.
Once the install was complete, I took it for a test ride. I had a significant driveline vibration that would come in at about 70mph. I chased this vibration for over a month. I spent countless hours shimming and un-shimming the trans height to correct for an excessive u-joint angle (I also have extensive experience in setting driveline angles). I was never able to completely eliminate the vibration.
After numerous phonecalls to Keisler, they finally agreed to bringing the car to a Corvette specialty shop located 4 hours from home that had experience installing Keisler kits (but they do not use Keisler driveshafts). They also agreed to pay for 2 hours of troubleshooting to locate and fix the problem. Long story short here....(I left the car with them for a month) the shop re-shimmed the trans up to within an 1/8" of the tunnel (been there before) and sent the driveshaft out to be balanced. The driveshaft was returned WITH significant weights added to each end. The shaft had never been balanced when it was manufactured. Result....Vibration now gone! Car drives great!
After speaking with numerous folks that have installed Keisler kits, none of the providied driveshafts have weights on them.
Keisler agreed with the shop to pay for the 2 hours and the balancing. Unfortunately, I also ended up paying over $100 to the shop for their time. Couple that with the two trailer rentals to drop off and pick up the car. I now have over $400 into this effort in addition to the cost of the kit. I accept the additional costs...but I am frustrated overall that I incurred additional costs all as a result of the "balanced" driveshaft not being balanced. I spoke with one rep from Keisler concerning the costs associated with this and his reply was (with some sarcasim) "you could have driven it there, just not go fast enough to feel the vibration". My rationale was...I didn't know where the vibration was being generated and didn't want to induce any further damage as a result of driving it.
In any case, the car nows drives great! I really enjoy the reduced engine rpm....and no vibration! The kit is complete, fits well and looks good. I would personally recommend having the provided driveshaft balanced prior to installing in your car or have your own made. You may avoid a lot of frustration chasing a vibration as I did.
driveshaft.I THINK since keisler has so much fame now, they can care less of the outcome of customer service
they should have refunded you 100% extra cash it cost you to find the problem with their products.
Last edited by MEGALADON; 09-01-2005 at 03:35 PM.
09-01-2005, 04:07 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
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It has been about a year ago some of us here tried to get up a group purchase for a discount from Keisler. They weren't interested so I said F'em. I then bought a ROD and I'm glad I did! 
09-01-2005, 04:41 PM
#13
Let's consider this,as well:
Quote....
"The speed of the driveshaft also amplifies U-joint-induced vibration. The maximum acceptable operating angle of a U-joint decreases in direct proportion to shaft speed. At 2,000 rpm, the maximum angle is about 8°, while at 4,000 rpm, it is only about 4°.
It’s important that you inspect the driveshaft angle or pinion angle on the rear axle. If someone has modified the suspension to change the vehicle’s ride height, they may have created a U-joint vibration problem. Shimming the rear axle and rear transmission mount to reduce the operating angles of the U-joints may be necessary to reduce or eliminate this kind of vibration."
Just thought I'd toss that monkey wrench in....
Quote....
"The speed of the driveshaft also amplifies U-joint-induced vibration. The maximum acceptable operating angle of a U-joint decreases in direct proportion to shaft speed. At 2,000 rpm, the maximum angle is about 8°, while at 4,000 rpm, it is only about 4°.
It’s important that you inspect the driveshaft angle or pinion angle on the rear axle. If someone has modified the suspension to change the vehicle’s ride height, they may have created a U-joint vibration problem. Shimming the rear axle and rear transmission mount to reduce the operating angles of the U-joints may be necessary to reduce or eliminate this kind of vibration."
Just thought I'd toss that monkey wrench in....
09-01-2005, 04:59 PM
#14
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Originally Posted by rihwoods
Let's consider this,as well:
Quote....
"The speed of the driveshaft also amplifies U-joint-induced vibration. The maximum acceptable operating angle of a U-joint decreases in direct proportion to shaft speed. At 2,000 rpm, the maximum angle is about 8°, while at 4,000 rpm, it is only about 4°.
It’s important that you inspect the driveshaft angle or pinion angle on the rear axle. If someone has modified the suspension to change the vehicle’s ride height, they may have created a U-joint vibration problem. Shimming the rear axle and rear transmission mount to reduce the operating angles of the U-joints may be necessary to reduce or eliminate this kind of vibration."
Just thought I'd toss that monkey wrench in....
Quote....
"The speed of the driveshaft also amplifies U-joint-induced vibration. The maximum acceptable operating angle of a U-joint decreases in direct proportion to shaft speed. At 2,000 rpm, the maximum angle is about 8°, while at 4,000 rpm, it is only about 4°.
It’s important that you inspect the driveshaft angle or pinion angle on the rear axle. If someone has modified the suspension to change the vehicle’s ride height, they may have created a U-joint vibration problem. Shimming the rear axle and rear transmission mount to reduce the operating angles of the U-joints may be necessary to reduce or eliminate this kind of vibration."
Just thought I'd toss that monkey wrench in....
09-01-2005, 05:16 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
Ive been chasing a vibration myself after a Keisler tko600 install,Ive shimmed my trans mount,changed my trans mount to a poly,changed my t/a bearings(one was bad) ,changed halfshfts and ujoints,and still have the vibration,Its not that bad of a vibration and only around 80 -90 mph,
So this could be my problem.
OH YEAH KEISLER STILL OWES ME A T-SHIRT ,BEEN WAITING 8 MONTHS NOW,SO KEISLER IM I GOING TO PAY FOR MY DRIVESHAFT BALANCE ?
Good post! Thanks
So this could be my problem.
OH YEAH KEISLER STILL OWES ME A T-SHIRT ,BEEN WAITING 8 MONTHS NOW,SO KEISLER IM I GOING TO PAY FOR MY DRIVESHAFT BALANCE ?
Good post! Thanks
09-01-2005, 05:39 PM
#16
Originally Posted by Fevre
The last paragragh does not apply to vettes since the pumpkin (rear diff) is fixed and does not move up or down with suspension changes.
09-02-2005, 08:42 AM
#17
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Let's see.....it's now been 5 days since I asked for some sort of compensation for the additional expenses I incurred. I even faxed them copies of the receipts for what I paid.....No reply. Go figure!
I won't even go into how they charged me for someone elses replacement driveshaft and then denied they charged me! That took two days to straighten out!
About a month after I installed my kit in my '78....my friend purchased a kit for kis '69 Z-28. Of course they changed my invoice and put his name on it....so when I called to get assistance with my vibration issue and he was calling to get the shipping status of HIS kit.......the customer service rep actually stated "what are you guys trying to pull here?" He actually insinuated we were trying to scam THEM!
If I hadn't finally straightened this vibration thing out...I would actually send the whole kit back to them for a refund! I sure don't need this slam on my integrity because they are the ones with the problems!
I won't even go into how they charged me for someone elses replacement driveshaft and then denied they charged me! That took two days to straighten out!
About a month after I installed my kit in my '78....my friend purchased a kit for kis '69 Z-28. Of course they changed my invoice and put his name on it....so when I called to get assistance with my vibration issue and he was calling to get the shipping status of HIS kit.......the customer service rep actually stated "what are you guys trying to pull here?" He actually insinuated we were trying to scam THEM!
If I hadn't finally straightened this vibration thing out...I would actually send the whole kit back to them for a refund! I sure don't need this slam on my integrity because they are the ones with the problems!
09-05-2005, 01:51 PM
#18
Former Vendor
Originally Posted by MEGALADON
I THINK since keisler has so much fame now, they can care less of the outcome of customer service
Robert
09-05-2005, 02:01 PM
#19
Former Vendor
Driveshafts
We're looking into the driveshaft issues and will take care of any problems.
The driveshafts are the only major component of our kits we do not build or customize in-house, and our supplier has done exceptional work for us. Over the years we have provided hundreds upon hundreds of driveshafts with very few problems.
Robert
The driveshafts are the only major component of our kits we do not build or customize in-house, and our supplier has done exceptional work for us. Over the years we have provided hundreds upon hundreds of driveshafts with very few problems.
Robert
