dath

Hey Guys,

I'm starting my question asking back up again after a long while off of the forum. I started today with a simple carb question, and I'm going on from there. . .

My 383 with about 750 miles on it seems to have a little oil leak on one of the heads. It actually was leaking coolant for a while from both heads (or at least I assume the heads), but that seems to have stopped before I could locate it (I keep a piece of cardboard under my car and there were green spots on both sides). Anyhow, the drivers side is leaking just above the oil filter. I'm nearly certain it is the head as it's dry just above and it seems to be wet right at the crack. It runs down onto the filter. . .

What I am wondering is if I can just retorque the heads without draining the cooling system and pulling all the bolts out and regooping them? This engine has iron heads (Iron Eagle). Don't even go down the builder should have this or that route, I don't care anymore, I just want to clean up his mess and get on with life.

While I'm at it, I have a couple of other questions too. Are higher ratio rockers or roller rockers more prone to noise? My valve train seems a little noisy to me, but I can't isolate anything that sounds "bad", but I can really hear the valves working away. Also, do you think any damage would have been caused by having a rocker improperly adjusted (way too lose) for a few hundred miles? I thought I had an exhaust leak . . . Turned out an exhaust rocker was not even in the ball park on adjustment. It was way loose, so I readjusted it "properly" and the noise went away (big surprise there ). I was thinking it may be worthwhile to redo all of them, but they are the locking kind and adjusting them is a little strange to me (as in I don't know exactly how, I guess you adjust and then lock the hex nut afterward while holding in place with a wrench?). . .

Knocking. . . 92 octane gas and I think about 34 total degrees advance (I need to recheck). No vacuum advance. Plugs are a good range (don't recall for sure, but definitely too cold if anything). I get knocking at midrange speed (40 MPH) and heavy throttle (near or full). Compression should be 10:1 and I know very little else as I never got my build sheet and have no idea what cam and such ended up in the engine (and I'm not happy at all about this either). Should I just back the timing off 2 degrees at a time until it goes away and repost what it ends up at and at what RPM? I set it quite a while ago and lost the paper I wrote the numbers on, but I think I had 36 originally and I ended up backing it off 2 degrees initial when I first noticed the knocking.

Thanks for reading!
-dath

stepinup

I would try to re torque the heads,if this doesnt help,drain the antifreeze down abit so you dont have a mess and pull one bolt at a time starting with the first bolt in the torque sequence,apply whatever your using on the threads, retorque that bolt ,then go on to the next bolt in the sequence,ect,make sure you arnt getting any antifreeze in your oil.Did you have old gas in your tank?I,or did you drain the old gas and start with all new, wonder if that is helping the ping.as far as the lifters go I would just go through them all,its easy to do with the engine not running,then you will have a piece of mind

Brettmc

I don't think heads leak oil since they don't have oil passages...
Must be coming from the valve cover or the rear of the manifold.

Brett

big_G

I have seen heads leak oil, especially tired L-98's and LT1's. They leak at the rear-most edge of the joint where the head meets the block, close to where the oil gally plug is on the block. It seems that there is not alot of clamping force there, and the oil drain for the head is right there. We have fixed leaks like these, by surfacing the heads.

colorado1967

Should check you dip stick tube which goes into the block right above the filter to make sure it is seated.

dath

Colorado, it's definitely not the dip stick. I have a o-ring style Lokar dipstick with no tube and the oil really looks to be coming from the back of the head on the driver's side. That's where the trail starts. Everything is very clean since it's a new engine build, so it is fairly easy to see.

big_G, that's exactly what it looks like to me, but these heads are brand new Iron Eagle heads. It's entirely possible that there is a surfacing issue on the block or head though. . . I hope not though!

stepinup, you think it wouldn't cause any additional leaks to retorque the heads? I'm just worried that retorquing them may cause the seal on the bolts to break. I don't know what the builder used on the bolts, but I would assume #2 permatex, which dries doesn't it?

One other question as well. . . You think it is possible with power brakes to retorque the bolts without pulling the engine out? I'm kind of tired of pulling engines out of this car (this is the second build from the builder), but I'll do it if I have to.

Regards,
-dath

big_G

FYI....We have had SEVERAL World Sportsman heads leak coolant out of the end cylinder exhaust manifold bolts. It seems that during the drilling/tapping operations, they got too close to the water jacket...We called them, they said seal it with ARP thread sealant..I DON'T THINK SO..We sent them back....

dath

big_G, it was my understanding that *ALL* head bolts on a small block go into the water jacket??? That is why I was worried about retorquing them, thinking that it may leak if I didn't pull the bolts out and clean/regoop them first . . .

Oh yeah, and as for trusting that the machine work and the assembly was done properly, I *DON'T*. I would assume that is the problem far more quickly (at least in my case) than anything else. The builder I used has had so many problems with his work that I don't trust anything he has done anymore. I'm not trying to slam anyone, it's just where I'm at.

dath

Hey, sorry, I forgot to reply to the rest of your comments. For the lifters, yeah, I think I may redo them all this weekend if I can get the motivation up to do it all by myself (I'm used to working with someone else around and like the company ). The gas is new. I've been driving it around quite a lot lately as the weather is nice and I want to get through all of the issues I can find as soon as I can as I want to start sanding the paint off so I can repaint. It would be nice to be mostly done with the engine at that point so I don't have to work on a freshly painted car. As it is, I don't even worry about the existing paint, I just throw greasy rags on it, lean on it, set my wrenches on it, whatever . . . I don't want to do that after I paint it.

big_G

I said "exhaust manifold" bolts, NOT head bolts..

stepinup

Dath,I know that your suppose to retorque the heads after a certain amount of miles when breaking in but alot of people seem to overlook that.I personaly have never had a problem with leaking after retorqueing ,Im not saying this will take care of your oil problem .As far as the power breaks go I dont know,I dont have them,and as I dont have all the answers,I think I would run the 92 oct. with some oct. boast just to see what it does,10:1 is still pretty high comp. and some gas stations 92 oct. isnt as good as other gas stations 92 oct. then start playing with the timing

glen242

My 383 has 64cc TF aluminum heads, CR is 10.2 +/- and I run 89 octane pump gas with no problem. Cam is a CC XE274. Timing is 36* in by 2500 rpm. Vacuum advance is 16* for a total of 52* Head gaskets are FelPro 1010 and have not retorqued them. Used the same gaskets on my 350. This is the recommended gasket for aluminum heads. Used APR sealer on all head bolts. What is the quench using your heads? I had my block '0' decked and am running a 0.039 compressed gasket = 0.039 quench. The less quench you have, within reason, the less likely detonation will occur.

What cam? Bigger cams will bleed off pressure, but with 10.0 CR on iron heads, I would not think you would have a detonation problem with 92 octane.

BTW, using Crane Cool Nuts on the CC roller tip rockers. Easy to use.

dath

big_G, OHHHH, sorry, I missed that! Yeah, I wouldn't expect that at all, you are correct. That is complete BS they just said to goop them and reinstall.

stepinup, I didn't think you were really supposed to need to retorque head bolts with iron heads. I thought that was just a requirement for aluminum heads. . . I'll see tomorrow if I will be able to get a torque wrench in there. I have doubts that I can without u-joints, but I can't do that with a torque wrench, so I'll probably have to pull it. I'll have to pull the headers even if I don't have to pull the engine. That means new gaskets every time I retorque the bolts, so I'd like to get it right in the first pass if I can . I'm using Earl's custom cut gaskets that seal really well, but it will be painful to cut new ones out, plus at $25 a set, it'll add up quickly if I have to go through this more than once, though I already have a spare set I was going to use . . .

Glen, I wish I could answer those questions accurately, but I cannot. My builder never sent me the build data and this engine has differences to the first one he built for me that I had to ship back . . . Let's just say the whole experience was sub Par.

I'll have to check out the Crane nuts. The nuts on mine seem fairly trick, but it was very strange to adjust the one that I had to readjust. Of course I had no instructions, but they are just nuts!

While I'm at the questions, is there anything else I should retorque? Intake? I received no instructions at all from my builder.

GasketDude

Your oil problem is coming from the intake tri-corners. We use to use RTV dams to redirect this leakage away from the head gaskets we were testing on Dyno for hundreds of hours. Could also possibly be from the oil sender, or v/c's. All the oil is draining down at either the frt or rear of the heads right into the intake valley.

Coolant leak could be from the head gaskets. The silicone coating usually seals once it's up to temp. But I would definately retorque, but one bolt at a time starting with "#1" first. Turn about half a turn and retighen to 65 to 75 depending on fasteners. Typically this is done within a few minutes of original torque up before the sealer hardens. Depending on the bolt sealer this could cause more headaches if it's "dried out".

At the parts store you can buy oil and coolant dye, this is great for engine build ups to diagnosis issues early. A black light or cheaper yet those pen lights with the blue light work good for inspecting for dye leakage.

Retorque everything using a torque wrench where possible. Make sure you have the PCV and breather setup correct. If not you'll continue to "blow out" the intake RTV.

Check it out and report,
Later.

dath

So you think my oil leak is really coming from the intake? It's not the sender, the oil is coming from above the sender (sender is installed just above the oil filter). It really does look like it is coming from the back of the head.


Yeah, the coolant leak *SEEMS* to have stopped for whatever reason. I've been keeping an eye out for a fresh puddle under the car, but haven't seen anything other than the oil and my various transmission leaks. . .

I may try the dye trick too if it doesn't look as obvious when I go back out and look at it again. I am running a breather on the passenger side and a PCV on the driver's side. The PCV seems to rattle around a lot, so I think it's working . . .

Regards,
-dath

big_G

I'm totally impressed with how much time my dye-checker saves me...one of my favorite tools..(next to my air hammer...lol)

dath

So I went out and took a closer look at everything. My intake manifold *IS* leaking a little bit of oil on the front and back sides of the engine. It's *POSSIBLE* that the oil was following down the head and making it look like the head is leaking, so I'm going to retorque the intake and clean everything up and see where that gets me.

Anyone know the torque spec and sequence for the Edelbrock Performer RPM intake? I couldn't find any instructions that list that specifically online. I did find generic Edelbrock instructions on Summit Racing's site that say that they need to be retorqued (or at least imply so in their troubleshooting section by saying that failure to retorque can be a cause of leaking). . .

Thanks again for the help,
-dath

jackmoore

I am amazed that nobody mentions Bars Leak. It works great. I don't think it compromises cooling. On the retorque sequence, just model it after a head retorque sequence start at the middle, two to a side, alternate to the other side and move out.

dath

Good call in the intake manifold retorque, I had spaced the fact that the manifold needs to be retorqued, plus my builder never said a word about it. I got out there tonight and did it (stripped one bolt head a little with a crappy import crow's foot). A few of them were literally finger tight. I looked more carefully at the back side of the engine and could easily see how the intake corner could let oil out in a way that would make it look like I had a oil leak from the head. I cleaned up as much of the oil as I could and I'll keep an eye on it now.

Anyone know if you can buy a single ARP intake bolt to replace the one I messed up? I think I need to get a better set of crow's feet.

Thanks everyone!
-dath