MrM1978

Muncie M21 4 speed from a 1969 Corvette Roadster. Running and operating as it should when taken out of the ‘69. Bearings replaced in 2009. E-mail me for pictures and additional information.
$1500. mrm2010@att.net

restoman1

What's the partial VIN on the engine and transmission?

Ed

vettebuyer6369

Should list the VIN in the ORPHAN section.

MrM1978

Not sure I understand, what VIN?

Jebbysan

Is the engine out of your car? Or do you know where the car is?
VIN is the vehicle identification number.....it is in your first photo on the block pad. Some list in the "orphan" section for folks that are trying to find their original drivetrain that is long gone.

Jebby

MrM1978

Thanks so much for the suggestion, will place an ad there as well. Where can I find the Orphan section?
Engine and tranny are out and I’m my garage. The vehicle they came out of is at a friends house. Beautiful ‘69 Roadster.

ZAKsPop

No need to find the orphan section. Seems like your friend just put them up for adoption..

Big Block Dave

The “numbers matching “
aspect of this sale is of no value to anyone except your friend, whom owns the car that the “numbers” match to.... unless of course they are not original to his car and came out of some other car in the first place... which I suspect is not the case.

MrM1978

Thanks Big Block Dave, they have value to someone looking for a matching number, period correct engine and transmission combo. If someone has a ‘69 corvette without an engine and tranny, this could be valuable to them. Appreciate your opinion, have a nice Friday.

Big Block Dave

They have value as an engine and transmission that work. and are a pretty good deal on that level.

dates.. maybe


Numbers matching not unless they go back to the car they belong to.

not looking to give you a hard time, but it’s just how “numbers matching “ works.

RestoMike

Unfortunately #'s matching gets abused and stretched to fit way too often.....in this case probably unknowingly.

Resto

MrM1978

This is a great site, get all kinds of incorrect insight. If anyone is seriously interested in this matching combo, drop me an e-mail. I do however appreciate all replies.

Big Block Dave

Yep we are all wrong. Your engine and transmission, with numbers that prove they are a matching set (which btw you didn’t show the matching numbers) , will be exactly the selling point that is going to motivate someone to buy them for a car that has a different vin number.

Thunder80

I have a 69 Nova, well it would fit. But the Nova is auto. Not cutting into my virgin floor

Best for your sale

ed427vette

This is why I use the term “born with original” engine and transmission. There is no confusion about what that means. We need to do away with the “matching numbers” term. Creates nothing but problems and disagreements.

Nice looking L46. Good luck with the sale.

MrM1978

I believe All the numbers are in the pieces Not sure I understand what you mean by the VIn? You referring to the VIN of the car they came out of? If so, sorry, can’t ask my friend to give his ViN number out. If not that, let me know and happy to help. Appreciate the interest. Regards.

ed427vette

If that is his original 69 engine which it probably is then his vin ends in 713492 which means his car was the 13492nd car off the assembly line. The rest of the 69 Corvette vins started the same before that 6 digit sequential number except one number which would indicate coupe (number 3) or convert (number 6). So basically we already know his vin. This is why it’s important to know definitions such as “matching numbers” and why I hate using that phrase because those numbers on the engine pad you showed would match the vin on his car. That was what matching numbers meant many years ago. The engine matches the vin. If the trans has that same “vin” derivative stamped into the side of the casing then it matches HIS cars vin. They match. Matching numbers. That is also why people or potential buyers are asking about the vin. Because those buyers are trying to find THERE vin on an engine block stamp pad hoping they can make there car “matching numbers” again by buying an orphaned engine. Matching numbers used to mean engine stamp and vin number are the same. That term tied both engine and vin together. So just an engine and trans sounds funny with the term matching numbers. It’s like, matches what?

Now when people say they have a matching numbers engine/trans to sell it COULD mean that the heads are correct casting numbers with correct dates for the engine block which could also have the correct casting numbers and dates along with the water pump, manifold, etc. But the VIN can’t match as it did not come from whatever car the new buyer has unless that was his engine that was removed from his car many years earlier. It’s rare owners are reunited with there original engines years later but it has happened. Yes, it could be a CORRECT engine with the right casting codes and close dates and it COULD be said to be matching numbers in that sense. But it your case it sounds as if the original car it came out of is your friend. It’s not a very good financial move to sell and separate the original engine/drivetrain out of a corvette that is currently together. You would be making that Corvette no longer “matching numbers”. Everyone is trying to do the exact opposite of what we think you are doing. Owners are trying to track down there original drivetrain. But to each his own.

Then it could be RESTAMPED with the “matching numbers” vin and therefore technically be “matching numbers” but it will not be “born with original” which is the phrase I currently like best. For example, if I didn’t have my original L46 motor in my 69 and my vin was near your friends vin, maybe car 714567 let’s say, I might buy your engine, have it decked and restamp new numbers 19S714567 instead of your 19S713492 which is on there now. Abracadabra, matching numbers. ( by the way, the restamping of the numbers was said tongue in cheek...)

All this affects value to some degree.

This is how crazy the world of collector cars has gotten. And it’s been like this a long time. But with bigger money always getting involved, this is just the nature of the beast.

I should also add, if vin 713492 is NOT your friends vin, maybe he replaced his original engine with this one a long time ago, then whoever DOES have vin 713492 will want this engine trans combo badly, especially if the trans also has 19S713492 stamped into the side.

vettebuyer6369

Its possible you just arent understanding the common definition of numbers matching. Regardless of original, born with, restamp, whatever, numbers matching refers to the VIN (or VIN derivative, a portion of the VIN) on a part (in the case, an engine) “matching” the VIN on a car’s VIN plate. Its that simple.

You might be thinking that the numbers on the engine are “correct” for the era or an application, but outside of a car, engine numbers aren’t “matching” anything.

vettebuyer6369

I think we need both terms. You dont always know if a car has been restamped. Thats a different conversation. Does the VIN derivative on the block match the car’s VIN plate? Yes.

Then next question is determining the originality or born-with status of those numbers.

Its only confusing when people choose to confuse them.

If someone tells me a cars engine is numbers matching then thats what it is. They didnt say it was born-with.

MrM1978

Thanks for all the information. Guess I should have said the engine and tranny are matching in the respect they both came out of my friend’s ‘69 roadster. I helped him take them out and put the new parts in so it is definitely out of a 1969 Corvette. The engine and tranny I have match the VIN on my friend’s car. If you are interested in this engine and transmission, feel free to give me a call to discuss further. 832-816-3323. Thank you.