C3 General General C3 Corvette Discussion not covered in Tech
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

C3 steering ratios(?)

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 04-20-2024, 07:30 AM
  #1  
Bad3
Advanced
Thread Starter
 
Bad3's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2019
Posts: 62
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default C3 steering ratios(?)

I have a recently bought a C3 non power steering car and it's by far the hardest steering car I've ever owned!!! The first time I got in it I thought the steering column had locked. Anyway box is well greased, not adjusted too tight, not too much caster in the alignment, and no binding anywhere. If there's different ratio boxes available, and I hope there are, this ones obviously for a PS car, and this car's not one. Please tell me there are different ratio boxes....... THX all.
Old 04-20-2024, 07:49 AM
  #2  
4-vettes
Le Mans Master
 
4-vettes's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2006
Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 8,559
Received 4,533 Likes on 2,747 Posts
2022 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
Cruise-In VIII Veteran

Default

No there's not. There are 2 different holes on the spindles however. They could be on the tighter ratio hole, (inside)
Worth having a look.
Otherwise, hit the gym.
Or install aftermarket power steering. Like a Borgeson unit.
The following users liked this post:
Bikespace (04-20-2024)
Old 04-20-2024, 08:10 AM
  #3  
HeadsU.P.
Le Mans Master
 
HeadsU.P.'s Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2017
Location: Cool Northern Michigan
Posts: 6,924
Received 2,140 Likes on 1,644 Posts
Default

If it truly feels like the steering wheel is locked up, somethings not right.
If you installed PS you would blow the rubber lines or the pump in the first day.
Should not be that tight.

With the front end up on jackstands, grab a front tire at 9 o clock & 3 o clock and manually try to turn the entire linkage.
Have someone behind the wheel turn it lock-to lock several times while you crawl underneath and give a thorough inspection.

Might be ball-joints. You could always narrow down the issue by disconnecting. portions of the system with a picklefork.
Eventually, it should get easier & easier to steer and you have found the problem.

I have had a few manual steering cars. I enjoyed it. It should not be a burdon.
The following users liked this post:
BarrelCurve (04-21-2024)
Old 04-20-2024, 08:26 AM
  #4  
4-vettes
Le Mans Master
 
4-vettes's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2006
Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 8,559
Received 4,533 Likes on 2,747 Posts
2022 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
Cruise-In VIII Veteran

Default

It accurs to me that maybe the OP here has never owned a manual steering car before.
Do you realise that you can NOT turn the wheel and then start to move with a manual steering car? No matter what the ratio. You have to start moving and then start to steer.
How does the car steer when moving along down the road?
If the answer is fine. Then it's a matter of learning how manual steering works.
The following users liked this post:
BarrelCurve (04-21-2024)
Old 04-20-2024, 08:44 AM
  #5  
Bikespace
Le Mans Master
 
Bikespace's Avatar
 
Member Since: Mar 2017
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 9,128
Received 3,165 Likes on 2,349 Posts
Default

There was just a thread on this. I converted my car TO manual steering, and it doesn't have the outer holes that your car probably does. There's a 10X difference in steering effort between stopped and rolling at 5 mph. Once you train yourself to steer only with the wheels turning, it's not hard at all.

Though there are different input shafts, the ratios are the same for all stock C3 steering boxes.

Old 04-20-2024, 12:41 PM
  #6  
gbvette62
Race Director
 
gbvette62's Avatar
 
Member Since: Oct 2000
Location: Shamong, NJ
Posts: 11,138
Received 2,058 Likes on 1,334 Posts

Default

As was said above, a car without power steering has to be moving a little bit to get the wheels to steer. A manual steering car with a fat set of modern radials will also be harder to steer than a car with period correct narrow bia ply tires.

Corvette power steering systems used the same box as the manual steering cars, with the assist being supplied by a slave cylinder and control valve providing the assist to the steering linkage, not through the steering box. Besides adding the PS pump, control valve and slave cylinder, the only other change made to a Corvette's steering system when power steering was added was a different pitman arm and center link. The steering box, spindles, tie rod ends etc were all shared with both assisted and non assisted Corvette steering systems.
Old 04-20-2024, 03:02 PM
  #7  
Crimson Thunder
Burning Brakes
 
Crimson Thunder's Avatar
 
Member Since: Jun 2015
Location: Doctors Inlet Florida
Posts: 1,041
Received 445 Likes on 273 Posts
Default

How old are your tires? When my car had manual steering, a new set of tires made all the difference in turning effort.
The following users liked this post:
GTR1999 (04-20-2024)
Old 04-20-2024, 05:54 PM
  #8  
Torqued Off
Le Mans Master
 
Torqued Off's Avatar
 
Member Since: May 2008
Posts: 9,007
Received 2,704 Likes on 1,421 Posts
2022 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified

Default

Anyone who claims that C3 Corvette manual steering is excessively difficult to drive is either pathetically weak, or has driven modern cars so long they have the wrong perspective on steering. And as said above,...you don't turn the wheel in a parking lot without forward or rearward motion. I have to do several turns to get my manual C3 in the garage....every time out, and every time in. No big deal, and I am a 180 lb 65 year old man, not exceptionally strong,....i.e. not a muscle head.

Anything above 10 mph going down the road....I can turn the wheel with one finger....although I drive with both hands because I want to. And my car has alot going against it for a manual....my 77 has the 14 inch steering wheel versus 15 inch, tie rods connected to power steering holes in steering arms, because there is no hole for manual in 77......and by the way....I love it, and would not ever want anything different in this car....it drives like a sports car should, with excellent road feel and feedback. With my Gary Ramadei built steering box.....with the smallest movement of the steering wheel...the car reacts....like a sports car should. ANd the bonus is NO leaking power steering pumps, no hydraulic cylinders that leak....and no power steering belt / pump stealing power.......adding to the very open and simple engine compartment I have. Perfect.

But heh.....its me. Very few people agree with me on many things.

Last edited by Torqued Off; 04-20-2024 at 06:27 PM.
The following 2 users liked this post by Torqued Off:
BarrelCurve (04-21-2024), Bikespace (04-25-2024)
Old 04-25-2024, 08:13 PM
  #9  
Bad3
Advanced
Thread Starter
 
Bad3's Avatar
 
Member Since: Aug 2019
Posts: 62
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Well, I better find a local seminar on how to use non power steering. LMAO. Now I'm seeing different pitman arms, depending if the car has power or non power steering. WTF's next? LOL. Seriously everyone, this thing's unacceptably HARD to steer.
Old 04-25-2024, 08:16 PM
  #10  
4-vettes
Le Mans Master
 
4-vettes's Avatar
 
Member Since: Nov 2006
Location: Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 8,559
Received 4,533 Likes on 2,747 Posts
2022 C3 of the Year Finalist - Modified
Cruise-In VIII Veteran

Default

How does it steer at 50 MPH?
if the answer is fine.
Then I think you need to add power steering.
If the answer is, still hard.
Then you need to find the problem and repair it.
The following users liked this post:
Bikespace (04-25-2024)
Old 04-27-2024, 03:19 AM
  #11  
RC81
Pro
 
RC81's Avatar
 
Member Since: Feb 2000
Location: Byron, Ca
Posts: 546
Received 166 Likes on 94 Posts

Default

If you get the front up in the air and turn the wheel is it easy or hard? Maybe start there and see what you see. Personally I'd not want a non power steering or power brakes vehicle. I realize that's only my opinion but I like the responsiveness of power. I realize its apples/oranges but had an old mustang without either. That old thing was actually dangerous on the Calif roads. Couldn't turn fast enough if it had to and God forbid you had to stop fast, that wasn't happening. Was a nice old GT but sold it as the driving experience was awful.
Old 04-27-2024, 07:40 AM
  #12  
toylman
Burning Brakes

 
toylman's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2006
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Posts: 930
Received 232 Likes on 179 Posts

Default

The first thing to check is what 4 Vettes recommended in the first reply; which hole are your tie rods installed in the spindle/knuckle. Inner is for P/S and outer is for manual. The amount of effort needed if in the wrong holes will be considerable. Having the P/S pitman arm will not really matter in the effort and others have reported that it does not affect steering or safety.
The pictures shows the tie rod end in the P/S holes and the manual (blue paint) and P/S pitman arm.




Old 04-30-2024, 11:23 PM
  #13  
leigh1322
Old Pro Solo Guy
Support Corvetteforum!
 
leigh1322's Avatar
 
Member Since: Dec 2017
Location: Marlton NJ
Posts: 5,230
Received 2,501 Likes on 1,602 Posts
Default

A couple of us recently did some measuring.
This would be normal on a manual steering car:
It may take 30-40# of force at the steering wheel to turn the wheels, if the car is NOT moving.
As soon as you get to 5 mph and above, then it drops to 3-4-5#.
It should only be really stiff when the car is not moving. That is normal for manual steering.
Once moving, the wheel should feel no stiffer than a normal car with PS.

Get notified of new replies

To C3 steering ratios(?)




Quick Reply: C3 steering ratios(?)



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:09 PM.