Kilobuck84

Let's crack open the apocryphal automotive dictionary....

Neither a Corvette, nor a Mustang, nor a Camaro are muscle cars.

"Muscle cars" are mid-sized coupes with full-sized engines that are primarily focused on fast acceleration with an order of "you want a small improved handling with that?" Which usually includes the lack of fully independent suspension.

They're not sports cars. They're muscle cars. Love them for what they are, because there's a lot to love. I'd pee myself if I had the resources to experience a '70 Chevelle with a 454. But let's not tarnish that magnificent freak of nature by pretending it's a race car anywhere outside the drag strip.

Call them sports cars or pony cars,... no wait, don't call them pony cars. Too much Ford there. But Corvettes are not muscle cars.

Mdbirk

Amen sista!

Douglas Mariani

The good old days

SEVNT6

During a football game my senior year of high school in '75 I met a new buddy. He was a gearhead too, the game was boring so he invited me over to his house to see his Dad's cars. His Dad was a doctor.

In the garage was a '67 Ferrari 275 GTB and a '67 Shelby GT350. And a beer fridge. Oh, and Mom & Dad were gone.
You know what happened next. No, not the Ferrari but we took the Shelby out for a spin. And he let me drive it.
I remember it being really fast but also little spongy. Still one of the coolest cars I've ever driven.
A surprise was waiting when we got back. His folks had come home early.
The old man was standing in the Shelby's empty spot, arms crossed & pissed off. The *** chewing I witnessed was legendary.

C3 Stroker

Back in the day (circa 1976)......my '68 Hemi Roadrunner....

Corvette-ZL1

Thanks for calling that out, Kilo. I'm sick and tired of the term 'muscle car' being used so loosely, especially when used in the same sentence as 'Corvette'. A Corvette is and always will be a sports car.

That said, my brother has a '73 Formula with a 455 and 4-speed and used to have a 2nd Gen Le Mans, also with a 455 (not original motor, obviously). I haven't yet been in the Bird yet since he did a bunch of suspension upgrades in prep for X-Cross, but the Le Mans was not a fun car with a 4.11 rear end. A straight line vehicle for sure, but that's it, and no fun at all on the freeway, even with a 700R4.

ignatz

Back in the day, and as a GTO muscle car owner, the car that blew me away was a 67 302 Z28 Camaro. Compared to my GTO, it was lighter, faster and louder. It just screamed. Came very very close to buying that car but the wife-to-be nixed the deal. She was all in on getting a Corvette instead, so here I am today, same woman, same car. We did for a while buy a 327 Camaro Powerglide, she actually liked that car and drove it. Wish I could somehow drive all four cars today, they were all different experiences.

Corvette-ZL1

Doesn't sound like a bad deal to me. It's good when your significant other tolerates your love of cars, it's great if they share the passion with you, and it's even better when they tell you to pick a C3 Corvette over a Camaro.... although, I do concede that the 302-powered Z28 is an epic car, and would have been an incredible investment if purchased back when they were almost being given away.

ignatz

Thanks, a lot of regrets still on passing up the Z28. No matter how much I've done to the Vette, in my mind it doesn't compare to blasting through the gears on the Camaro. It probably had a 4:11 rear, I never knew to ask.

71 Vert LS1

Best all around fast car I had in the late 70's was a 1972 442 with a 455 4 speed combo. Super smooth on the highway. No tickets but State Farm didn't think much of a 19 year old with that car. Very high insurance rates. Had to sell it after a year or so. Couldn't afford the monthly insurance rates.

dan1495

I had a 65 GTO with a 389 tri power and a 4 speed my junior year in high school (1970) followed by a 69 Charger RT/SE with a 440 Magnum my senior year in high school and freshman year of college. They were just used cars back then. The Charger was a great car - fast, comfortable and tight considering it’s size. The first gas crisis hit in 73 so the Charger went away and was replaced with my mom’s 69 302 Mustang. Not a Boss. It was fun while it lasted.

GTS Bruce

I have driven sports cars for over 50 years and never had any interest in muscle cars.

lakebumm

400, Ram Air 3, wide box muncie, 3.55 gears originally, 4.33 gears later on.

VERYSOON

MY 1966 GTO!

This is a great thread! I particularly enjoy hearing from fellow GTO owners.
The Chevelle (4 speed) felt like a fast, amicable sandbarge, the Camaro (375 hp 4speed) less so. No comparison to the Vette in driving. Totally different animal.
Muscle cars are gonna be muscle cars, Vettes are Vettes.
Kinda cooled my desire to go find a 66 GTO (but I would if they weren't so expensive.) Drum brakes at all four corners, huge turning radius with no power steering, but lots of class. Yep, just might start looking!
Note the "poverty caps" on my GOAT!

Lots of great memories here. Thanks

VS

VERYSOON

I meant to say I drove a friends collection all in the same afternoon about 6 months ago.
Chevelle 396 1970 4speed
69 Camaro 396
69 427 Vette 4speed
A great afternoon. Such fun to compare the experience each car offered.
vs

Jebbysan

Driven several Camaro's......67 RS/SS 350 4 speed my little brother has.....67 396/325 auto my Dad had......a bunch of 69's in various flavors......they all drove pretty well.......as far as ride and lane change but don't ask any of them to go around a corner at more then 6/10ths.......
Drove a 67' Mustang 390 GTA once....that felt like driving a plane that was going to fall off of an aircraft carrier......pitiful shocks and springs......this was a survivor car too,,,,,,,all original save for the tires.....
My little brother has a bunch of cars......his 70' 396 SS Chevelle is great on the open road but feels like a 78' Coupe DeVille as soon as you turn a corner. His 69' Charger is the exact same way but worse......his 55' Coupe DeVille is like piloting the boat from "A Perfect Storm" This is one area where "We don't need a bigger boat......" You don't so much turn a corner as you anticipate it, and act way before the turn is made......
I had Impala's years ago a 63' and 66'.......both felt like trying to pilot the Knock Nevis through the Panama canal going 70 MPH down the road.......but the 63' would run a bona fide 135MPH straight as an arrow......
Recently had seat time in two different 71' Demon 340's and these both were surprising......the one I worked on got new KYB shocks and a Addco front sway bar.....this car would actually corner even with it's 165SR Volkswagen skinny's on it......something to be said for lightweight cars......
All three of my Vette's handled about 100 times better than any car above.....BUT, one thing I know is shocks, sway bars, premium rolling stock and stance can make or break any of the cars I just mentioned.......
A big reason I still have my Vette is it handles awesome with updated 50 year old tech.......
I have an 82' Z/28 here with 46,000 mile son it and with no other changes than a set of IROC wheels and tires it handles like an Autocrosser........amazing what tire tech did to chassis design and setup.....

As far as "musclecar" is concerned......Pop Culture and **** car themed TV shows turned the word musclecar into a blanket statement covering every hot car in the era.......BUT! I do remember a certain Hot Rod article as a kid called "Musclebound for Glory" in 1979 where they tested all of the old "Fastest Musclecars".....Mustangs, Camaro's and T/A's (73 SD455) were on the list.......so who knows......and really, why does anyone care?

Jebby

jpatrick62

One of the things I appreciated in C3s was the desire to keep it roughly balanced f/r wise. Reading reviews of muscle and pony cars of the 60's and 70's, especially the big block ones, was the fact that many had roughly 60% of the weight on the front axle versus the rear. The manufacturers didn't seem to design in the proper balance, leaving many too light in the rear for good traction. I often wondered why -maybe it was cost or some other factors?

Bikespace

Well, not any more. Budget supercar perhaps, but a sports car has a manual transmission. So the last sports car made by GM was the C7.

But I agree 100% that a Corvette is not a muscle car either. Nor is a Camaro or a Mustang. Today, the descendants of muscle cars are mostly trucks.

BKbroiler

This is true.
Back in 1975 I bought a 70 Trans Am. White with the blue stripe and Ram Air 3 engine. The factory 4 speed shifter had a ball on top the size of a cue ball.
The tires on it were G70 15 bias ply. The stock suspension was very stiff and the ride was not very comfortable. I put BFG TA radials on it. First set of radials in my life. The improvement in ride quality was amazing with significant improvement in handling too. And, the white letters stayed white back then.