Coronette

One of President Ronald Reagan’s most famous sayings was, “Trust, but verify.”

I wrote about my interest in a 1972 base coupe outside of Chicago, here:


https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...dy-posted.html

I learned of the car from the owner’s Craigslist ad that has been reposted here.

Unlike many of you here who are mechanically savvy, I am not. I’m looking for a weekend driver in good condition, NOT a project car. I had numerous discussions with the owner, who assured me that the car was structurally sound (I specifically asked about the frame and birdcage in our first phone call), was well maintained, and in overall good condition. The owner bought the car in 1974, and has been doing his own maintenance on the car for decades. As the car is in Illinois and I am not, the owner agreed to take it to a mechanic.

Today the car was inspected by Doug, the owner of Lindberg Auto, in Lake Zurich. They are at lindbergauto.com. I spoke to Doug beforehand to introduce myself and to give him my credit card number. He had never seen the car before today.

Doug conducted his inspection today. Let’s just say the car was not well maintained or in anywhere near good condition, as represented by the seller. The frame is badly rotted in the rear, all brakes need replacement, oil is leaking out, the engine is smoking, the A/C does not work, shocks are gone, etc. Even the shifter **** and seats need replacement. This s just some of what he found. This is setting aside the tires that need replacement and the broken tach that the seller told me about (but are not in the ad). He estimated the car to be worth $15k.

Doug gave me the name and number of one of his customers who recently bought a C3 convertible (who might even be a member here), to ask where he had purchased his car. When I called, I told him that I was the one getting the ‘72 inspected by Doug. He said he saw smoke coming from the engine as Doug drove it around the shop!

It is definitely a project car. Someone who knows what he’s doing and has time and money to spend may be the perfect owner for this car.

The money spent on the inspection was definitely worthwhile. Unfortunately the representations by the owner were not accurate.

Doug was also very knowledgeable and honest. If I lived nearby I’d take my cars to him.

Thanks to everyone here who gave me feedback. I suspect this won’t be the last car I post about here!

SEVNT6

And as David Carradine said.....you have done well, weedhopper...

It sure was prettier on top than underneath evidently. Better luck next time...

AKjeff

Look at the Corvette knowledge you're already amassing, and you don't own one yet!
Glad you got the inspection, I know your car is out there, it will come along when the time is right.

68hemi

Over the years I have been on a couple of wild goose chases. This seller simply lied and miss represented the car. One of the best things you can do in a situation like this is when you find an unbiased 3rd party to do an inspection is to ask the seller to pay the fee for the inspector with you adding it to the sales price if he doesn’t finds substantial problems that the seller did not disclose. If the sell does not agree then walk away. When you are holding a seller’s feet to the fire the truth comes out.

oldgto

This worked very well for me 30 some years ago. I was installing a fence right after we bought our house. My neighbor SWORE I moved the corner marker. I told him, "Let`s get a survey. If the marker`s NOT where it should be, I`ll pay for it. If it`s right where it belongs, YOU pay for it." He dropped the whole thing then & there!
I think 68hemi has the right idea! If the seller is not willing to back up what he`s telling you.... the old saying "Put up, or shut up" comes to mind!

1860army

Are you going to pay for an inspection for every tire kicker who comes along? What about something the owner does not honestly know about-these things are 40-50 years old, I'll bet if you look hard enough there is something going on with mine I have not yet seen..... Why not ask for a 90 day money back guarantee? Its a used car, If you want to have it checked and the seller wont allow it then walk... but asking him (me) to pay for it is a little insulting to someone who honors their word.

As a seller, my version of put up or shut up would be to have the buyer hand me the sales price and inspection fee in cash before the car went anywhere and the only things that would warrant a refund is something I obviously lied about... I think we would see the other side of trust and holding someone's feet to the fire.

60

OldCarBum

Well done.
It sounds like you avoided a headache for yourself.
Have you looked for a C3 here in the C3’s for sale section on the forum.
I’ve seen some amazing cars up for sale and you will probably get a more honest add here than searching on Craigslist.
You would also stand a better chance of finding a more rust free car by looking for cars that spent their lives in California, Arizona, Nevada.
It doesn’t guarantee it, but it does help your chances.
Keep looking, it might take a while, but you’ll find that one perfect Corvette for you.
Good luck and keep us posted.

Coronette

Thank you everyone for these suggestions.

The inspection fee was reasonable and I was willing to pay it. He’s a professional, and the time he spent could have been used working on cars. I had multiple lengthy phone calls and emails with the owner, so based on what was said and the photos, I thought it was appropriate to move on to the inspection phase.

The trick is that I’ve been looking at cars out of state. I certainly don’t want to be flying all over the country, 4-5 hours each way, every time I am interested in a car. The inspection is one extra level of vetting, and I can then invest my time in seeing a car before a purchase.

I have a lot of feelers out, and have also been checking online at various classic car websites, and of course here. I’m also always receptive to referrals and leads as well. I know this takes time, and am willing to be patient.

OldCarBum

Have you been following any of the auctions?
There has been some very nice C3’s sold at reasonable prices, especially base models in the price range you were willing to pay.
I wouldn’t consider purchasing at an auction, but many people do.

1860army

That is key to this process and you are on the right track... Look for clubs in your area, go to some cruise nights or shows, we love to talk cars with anybody, put the word out. Since they are used cars you may not get exactly what you want, but know exactly what you do not want and don't compromise on that. The old saying goes " if when you walk away from your car and you don't look back, you got the wrong car" is very true... No matter how good the car looks, if it is a mechanical nightmare you won't be turning back to look either....

Best of luck

​​​​​​​60

68hemi

I stand by my comments. If the seller is asked to do what I said he is either confident in his description of the car or knows he is untruthful. He would only need to pay for it ONCE and if he is honest and the inspection bears that out then the buyer pays for the inspection. It is very simple and straightforward.

Corvette-ZL1

If anyone actually believes this is how it works, then I have a bridge to sell you too (but then you'd probably want me to pay for an inspection on that as well).....

Sellers aren't going to want to pay for having a mechanic nitpick every little thing that is wrong with the car they're selling - why would a seller do that? As a buyer, if you're too cheap to pay for a vehicle inspection, then you probably shouldn't be in the market for a classic Corvette, or any classic for that matter. This is not a cheap hobby. A buyer may spend hundreds (or even thousands) on vehicle inspections before finding the right one, and that's on them. It's the price you pay to play.

Buyer beware, and it's the buyer's duty to prove (and pay for) the road-worthiness of the car they're purchasing- - It's not the seller's job to bet against the car they're selling, and pay for it to boot. It really is up to the buyer to pay for the inspection. Just like buying a house, where the potential buyer pays for the home inspection, and not the seller. Oftentimes, you can use it as a bargaining chip to lower the asking price (or ask them to repair stuff if need be). If it's too far gone, or you can't agree on terms, then of course walk away, but at least you're only out a couple hundred bucks and not a fortune.

Now if a seller refuses a vehicle inspection (where the potential buyer is paying for it) on a car he's selling, then of course run away and continue the search. But to expect the seller to pay for it, c'mon.. I would expect most (actually all) of them will (probably laugh and) politely say no...I sure would. That doesn't make me a person who's potentially trying to hide something, because it's not my job as a seller to pay someone to prove it's not broken. It's how the world really works. Buyers pay for inspections...that's the way it is. If you find a seller who is willing (and gullible enough) to do this, good on ya'.

And as to the inspection.. look at all the threads about frame rot on the C2's and C3's. Sadly, this is the #1 (major) issue plaguing a majority of these cars.

68hemi

HaHa. I really don’t need a lesson on how to buy or sell a car.

I was in the car business for most of my business life for over 40 years. Additional I have bought and sold about 150 sports, classic, muscle, antique and special interest cars. I was buying cars based on pictures and phone conversations through Hemings when that was the only way to do it.

Your right about this. A seller is likely not going to pay for an inspection. That was not the point to my suggestion for it in the first place. It was a suggestion for a buyer to ask a suspect seller that you have concerns about their honest description of the car they are selling. I have used it several times in the past that either resulted in the seller becoming considerably more honest or simply refuse to do so which told me this was not a car to pursue. You’re also right about doing a PP inspection that the buyer pays for but before you even THINK about that this is the best way to see if the seller is being truthful as he really doesn’t care if you spend YOUR money on an inspection that might take his car out of the running for purchase with this buyer as he has nothing to loose. Look at the case of this subject car/seller. He did not pay for the inspection, lost the buyer and it cost him nothing.
The point is that if the seller is HONEST he has nothing to loose as the buyer pays for it IF it passes.

derekderek

virtually every house has at least one inspection done, and some of those houses don't cost a lot more than the better of our vettes. now my 75? not so much...

Corvette-ZL1

It's not a lecture. There's a pretty simple solution actually, and no need to complicate it, like at all. If you suspect a seller is lying or untrustworthy, then perhaps your instincts are correct, and shouldn't be ignored. In that case, promptly stop the communication and continue the search elsewhere. There are lot of available C3 Corvettes out there, so why act like a jerk and try to play mind games with sellers/strangers? Boom! Problem solved, and it didn't take me 40 years of selling cars to figure that one out.

Sleazy used car-salesmen tried to use a similar tactic on me during a rare time when I thought it was a good idea to sell or trade a car to a dealer. I learned that lesson real quick.

David Mc

Meh. I don't see any reason to bash the seller or the car. He said the tach and A/C were not working.

Almost all C2/3's need brake work.
And he might not have known of any rust in the kickup area. Do you have pics of that?

seacliffe301

Well, I for one have and will continue to advise to not even consider purchasing one of these cars without a thorough and complete inspection from nothing less than an expert.
Far too many unique potential problems, that can be disastrous if not disclosed. The horror stories are endless.
Best of luck with your search.

vettebuyer6369

I totally agree with this perspective. I’ve owned 18 Corvettes since the 70s and it didnt take me long to understand that as a buyer, I need to know that 1. Every seller, dealer or individual, wants to represent their car in its best light possible. Some will flat out lie and some just wont tell you stuff. I also learned that 2. As I buyer, it’s MY responsibility to do my due diligence. Depending on info provided by a seller is negligent. If you are not experienced enough to buy a car yourself (as many are, thats not a criticism), then get a buddy, a Corvette club member, or a recommended inspector who knows the model Corvettes you are looking at.

However, as a seller, if someone came to me and was so unprepared that he started playing games like “how about we get an inspector” and if A, I pay and if B, you pay, I’d politely tell him to find another car.

vettebuyer6369

I’d also mention that the topic of “expert inspections” can be a bag of worms in itself.

There’s a lot of “inspectors” that hang out a shingle that might be pretty good at looking for rust in a Mustang floorboard, but wouldn’t know a ‘67 nose was glued onto a ‘63 if it said “1967” on the underside.

Most of these guys waste your afternoon, some want to argue with you and others feel the need to earn their fee by “accomplishing” something.

There’s a short list of people I know that I’d consider excellent Corvette PPI experts, and many other Corvette hobbyists that could be very helpful in offering their opinions about a car after a look-over.

I had a “NCRS judge” from Chicago come down for a buyer and look at a split window I was selling, who showed up with briefcase and clipboard in hand, and proceeded to argue with me about correctness on details to the point where I went in and got my NCRS JG to show him where he was repeatedly mistaken (no they werent the error items, lol). After a couple of these he didnt want to talk to me any more. None of these details were major issues. Oddly enough the guy bought the car anyway.

Don’t get me wrong… an inspector is always a good idea for the novice, and an extra set of eyes is always a plus for even the most experienced buyer. But choose your help wisely, both from a qualifications standpoint and an “unnecessary pissing off the seller” standpoint. Daring the seller to pay for the inspection may or may not be the best strategy.

Corvette-ZL1

Right on!