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I did not want a fixer upper either. I found a 1973 350 with 62,500 miles on it. I can tell from the lack of too much rust, engine etc that it really does look like original miles. I also wanted original parts unrestored. They are out there you can get lucky and find them. Mine was $23,000 from a Chevy dealer out in the sticks. Just look for how clean and very low rust under the car. I also made sure the number matched on the engine. I would not get hung up on the cost if it’s just a thousand or so difference as long as it looks clean low rust and like people did not mess with it too much.
maybe it’s the fact that I don’t know very much or haven’t seen too many of these in person, but doesn’t it look like a lot of work was put into this car to make it “look” like it was taking good care of? Everything looks new and put together at the same recent time.
Carlos....Inspector too a lot of pics but missed a few that would have told the rest of the story. Would have been nice to see behind the kick panels, even if the owner would't allow them to be taken off a good inspection camera can be feed up and over to take a good look at the mounts. There are plenty of post here about this area get familiar with it and take an inspection camera with you to check it out before buying. The frame looks pretty solid. Something about the windshield pillars and vin plate looks almost too good. Might be a good idea to post those in this thread for someone else to look at. Who ever painted it could have done a better job putting the trim back on that might also be why the T-top doesn't sit right.
The numbers may match on the engine block and transmission but it's a long way from "numbers matching" nothing that can't be put back right if original looks are what your are after.
I'm not sure how well this paint matches the original Ontario orange color and it's not a top notch job but looks way better than mine.
I'd say 22,500 would buy it.....Is it worth that....? Only you can answer that.
maybe it’s the fact that I don’t know very much or haven’t seen too many of these in person, but doesn’t it look like a lot of work was put into this car to make it “look” like it was taking good care of? Everything looks new and put together at the same recent time.
I don't want to knock the car, my '71 LS5 is way far from perfect. This is a big decision for you and hopefully others here will post their opinions.
I looked at all of the photos, looks like it was pieced together with new and used parts to make it look complete. If I get a chance, I'll post some things that don't look right. I just happened to look on the C3 Registry, and the photos posted there supports my opinion.
The numbers may match on the engine block and transmission but it's a long way from "numbers matching" nothing that can't be put back right if original looks are what your are after.
Brian
Seeing how the block and the transmission are 2 of the only parts on the car (rear end?) that have the VIN stamp in it, what else isn’t “numbers matching?”
The car strikes me as one which likely sat for a long time (look at the accumulated debris in the pic of the rear spring mount and trailing arm adjusting rods) and had a number of new parts installed to make it run and drive but not everything has been gone through. It appears to be a highly optioned car - LS-5 engine, auto, power brakes, windows, steering, tilt-tele wheel, AC, deluxe interior.
It's missing a number of splash panels in the engine area (firewall metal shields, upper A-arm rubber flaps, frame to body shields behind the front wheels).
The wiring in the front headlight harness has been modified and the wire nest by the distributor is concerning - that's not a factory harness appearance.
The underbody parking brake hardware is missing.
At least one of the rear trailing arm alignment rods is bent.
AC compressor is missing as, I believe, are the condenser and receiver dryer along with the accompanying hoses.
The auto trans cooler lines running on the right side of the engine have been spliced. Why not just replace when buying all the other parts recently installed on the car? They're only $50+/- for the pair.
The windshield has been replaced which is probably why the VIN tag area looks so clean.
Many of the body panels are mis-aligned (at minimum both headlights and both t-tops).
New seat cushions and covers are causing the shoulder belt plate to be distorted.
Steering wheel cover and radio are not stock.
Missing front air flex dam. The crunched fiberglass noted in this area is common.
It has an HEI distributor, which wasn't available in '71.
Hood underside should not be that glossy black - nor should the door jamb paint look so thick and glossy.
If the paint is new, why all the chipping damage?
My overall impression is that it was dressed up to sell it - at not an inconsiderable expense. Basically anything that's shiny appears to have been replaced and not always with correct period components. The bones of the car are still dirty, rusted, and showing 50 years of age. There's something about that this that makes me feel unsettled. It's certainly not a mostly original car... nor is it a restored car... nor does it appear to be a regularly driven classic... I'm shying away from it at $25,000... maybe $20k or a tad more but I don't think it's a deal at $25k.
It's certainly not a mostly original car... nor is it a restored car... nor does it appear to be a regularly driven classic... I'm shying away from it at $25,000... maybe $20k or a tad more but I don't think it's a deal at $25k.
P.S. - it would be very expensive to actually return this car to a restored, judge-able condition. Many of the new and shiny parts would have to be replaced along with refurbishing the old components. Carlos, if you want an original collector car, then I'd pass on this one.
I would buy it. Would not think twice in the $20's. If you are going to search for a perfectly original car you will be doing it till the day you die. Everyone gets far too carried away wanting to show their knowledge of originality. Still appears to be a nice, clean '71 big block car to me. If that engine runs strong don't look back.
Seeing how the block and the transmission are 2 of the only parts on the car (rear end?) that have the VIN stamp in it, what else isn’t “numbers matching?”
That why I put numbers matching in quotes....Technically it is numbers matching if the vin numbers are all the same but it's a long way from the added value that "numbers matching" means to most folks. JMO
Even at 25k the the seller is upside-down on this car.
That said the paint an chrome alone is worth $10k.
It's come a long way since it was last sold and despite having some questionable "repairs", some missing parts, and a few parts yet to be addressed - it's worth about what he's asking.
All the major (obvious) systems have been addressed. If you're handy with tools the rest (most described in above posts and then some) are somewhat easily corrected.
The three most expensive things you'll ever encounter on one of these cars are done: bodywork, paint, rechrome.
Found my 1970 a few years ago for around $10k. Paint is not original (and is not perfect), engine not original, its got scratches and chips and dents. But, it runs. It has surface rust, but nothing that made me worry about it falling apart or turning to dust. Between this forum and you tube, I have fixed or replaced some things.(I too and not super mechanically inclined, but I try to push my limits and try things) The chips and dings mean I don't freak out about a parking place at the grocery store. If a little kid wants to sit in it at a car show, I let him/her climb in and get pictures taken. Gotta hook the next generation and a future owner of my car. :-)
This may not be a post that tells you which one of these two cars to pick, but hopefully reduces some of your stress about a purchase. Cars are meant to be fun, to be driven, to be admired, to enjoy. Get the one that you think will bring you the type of joy you are looking for. Some people like to look a their cars and not drive them...that's ok. Some people like to drive their cars and never wash them...that's ok. Some people cringe and having to change a tire and some want to rebuild an engine.
Pick your poison and jump in. The water feels great!
2020 Corvette of the Year Finalist (performance mods)
2019 C3 of Year Winner (performance mods)
2016 C3 of Year Finalist
It’s kind of a ridiculous question, I would say the 75 I’d over priced because it’s a 75....
a chrome bumper car, currently great resale value
a big block, currently a great resale value
numbers matching, currently greater value over non numbers matching.....any statement that you shouldn’t buy it because you can’t get parts is ludicrous. Most parts are rebuildable. Those that aren’t can be put on the shelf for resale With the car later...
I paid $19k for my 68 convertible and an extra $1500 for the numbers matching block. If you turn down the $25k chrome with a big block, I bet some of these same guys will be calling to get the number of the seller....you could flip it and make a few grand if you really wanted to...
I can only think of three valid reasons for focusing on a "numbers matching" C3: 1) you have a museum collection and need to be sure that item is representative of the vehicle you need; 2) you want to be a solid member of NCRS and vie for elite awards: 3) you found a good candidate and you can get it at a decent price and intend to 'flip' it for some quick cash.
If you don't have one of those three scenarios in mind, you are spinning your wheels in the 'numbers matching' game. Also, the term 'numbers matching' means very different things to different folks. For the 'general' buyer, it means that the engine, transmission and frame have matching serial number stampings. To a judge in NCRS it means that all the dated/stamped components in the car have appropriate number and date stamps for the vehicle build date shown on the trim plate. Why that detail matters to anyone, I have no idea; but there is an entire economy built on that subject matter and many folks pay (and others 'make') a lot of money playing the 'numbers matching' game. If that really is important to you, fine...and good luck. If that isn't all that important to you, find a C3 that will 'trip your trigger', regardless of what "numbers" it has.
Financially:
both cars will have similar, if not same appreciation/depreciation curves thru out the years. one just costs more than the other and will therefor sell more than the other..
if the cars are of equal condition, then its a coin flip..
unless one of them is priced wrong........
emotionally:
if you have a long run goal then satisfy that. if you buy what you don't really want then you will sell it earlier and then that sends all your acquisition costs, sales tax, title, shipping, and misc. early expenditures to get it on the road initially.. down a black hole...lost forever.
I didn't see any heater hoses on it and i wonder how many miles it was driven with no breather on the left valve cover? for some reason the pcv valve was moved to the right valve cover.
Overall it looks like a decent car and the inspector did a pretty good job. What I noticed:
1. The passenger side front lower control arm mount/frame has had some work done to it. You can see where it was welded and ground smooth on the frame above the inner pivot. This is a common area to have issues and a good repair is actually stronger than the original. So this is more of a negotiation point rather than a "stay away" type of issue. See image that ends in _122703 and compare the repaired (left side in photo) to the original (right side) just above the inner bushing and just below the bolt block. The sandwiched layers of the frame.
2. The pass side rear strut rod is bent. This is also commonly done because the bushings are worn to the point that an alignment can't be brought into spec. Replacing the strut rods is simple and cheap but wouldn't need to be done immediately. It can be driven.
3. There are no shims on the upper control arm cross shafts yet the front end has 1 deg of neg. camber per side. That is an indicator of a sagging cross member (each side moving in towards the middle). This is also a common issue with C3 frames and can be corrected with an inexpensive spreader bar. This also wouldn't need to be done immediately.
4. I'm not sure I saw a zerk fitting on the pass. side upper ball joint.
All of these "issues" aren't significant enough to walk away from a deal but they can give you some room to negotiate.
That said, I would buy the car if it were me. It will certainly hold its value and will be a fun car to cruise in.
25K should by you a "real decent" C3. Every one seems to favor chrome bumpers. I do too. That being said, there are a lot of very happy rubber bumper owners. Take your time. I'd look for a car being sold by a caring owner... they're out there. When it feels right, go for it.
I'll repeat what others have said. "Buy as much car as you afford". Repairs are expensive.
Good luck, you'll love a C3
I had an Orange ‘77 back in the late ‘80’s. It was in decent shape, don’t remember if it was numbers matching, I paid $5,000 for it. About six months later I needed money so I sold it for $5,000, I never checked what I could have sold it for, but it was sold to a used car dealer collecting any vette $5K or less.
PS, I hate the side pipes. They look brand new, no rust. Was put on buy the last owner just before I bought it. Someday I’ll trade it all for a couple cast iron factory headers and a regular rear valance.
Carlos - Keep your eye on this '71 big block going on BAT right now... Fairly comparable to the car you are looking at... If nothing else it is always worth grins to watch the comments of all the know-it-all's as they vomit their comments with no intention to buy.... https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...orvette-454-8/
08-06-2020, 09:31 PM
