So...How many original 1969 ZL1 cars were actually made??
08-02-2019, 11:54 PM
#41
Melting Slicks
For what it’s worth...my knowledge is as follows...
The white car is assumed to be a build up by a shop that was involved in “restoration” of cars to NCRS specification among other things. They also would build a car “to order” with engine option, transmission and trim tag creation for the color combo wanted by the owner. They claimed the car was legit, but I believe this was not able to be proven. It appeared authentic, was correct and numbers match, and is impossible to tell from real. Because of the shop’s prior “restorations” the reputation of the car was tainted. Because it was restored and not documented during disassembly, it will never be known what it was. Once a car is restored, all the traits that verify it’s authenticity are erased. Sadly that is the case here.
The yellow car is a ZL1 and was owned by a guy who was very active in vintage corvette collecting. The car had ALL docs and protecto plate. Sold to a guy who went to prison on drug charges, the cops never found the paperwork and docs on the car when it was seized. It probably went in the trash. Or a FBI guy has saved it forq later. The yellow car has no documentation, was correctly restored, and exists without papers. This car was restored, so just what was replaced or duplicated is open to debate. It it still worth a ton as it’s a ZL1/M22 car....
The red red convertible is “I believe” the other ZL1. It was always displayed this way and is a more desirable convertible/hardtop car. It is also an M40 automatic I believe. This is congruent to what Zora did with his 1968 white test car and is probably what GM wanted to sell for drag racing. I wonder if the posi delete had that in mind...the big thing about this car in my mind is it’s originality. As far as I know it is Unrestored..... Because of that, it’s low miles and the original nature of the car, it’s a very high value car. If it was restored it may be worth a third of what it is now in my view. It is a very historic car that remained hidden in plain sight for years in the shadows of the “real two” other ZL1 cars. The white car saved this thing in a way....
The sad thing is that today due to all of the restoration, faking and cheating, few believe anymore what is or was real.
The white car is assumed to be a build up by a shop that was involved in “restoration” of cars to NCRS specification among other things. They also would build a car “to order” with engine option, transmission and trim tag creation for the color combo wanted by the owner. They claimed the car was legit, but I believe this was not able to be proven. It appeared authentic, was correct and numbers match, and is impossible to tell from real. Because of the shop’s prior “restorations” the reputation of the car was tainted. Because it was restored and not documented during disassembly, it will never be known what it was. Once a car is restored, all the traits that verify it’s authenticity are erased. Sadly that is the case here.
The yellow car is a ZL1 and was owned by a guy who was very active in vintage corvette collecting. The car had ALL docs and protecto plate. Sold to a guy who went to prison on drug charges, the cops never found the paperwork and docs on the car when it was seized. It probably went in the trash. Or a FBI guy has saved it forq later. The yellow car has no documentation, was correctly restored, and exists without papers. This car was restored, so just what was replaced or duplicated is open to debate. It it still worth a ton as it’s a ZL1/M22 car....
The red red convertible is “I believe” the other ZL1. It was always displayed this way and is a more desirable convertible/hardtop car. It is also an M40 automatic I believe. This is congruent to what Zora did with his 1968 white test car and is probably what GM wanted to sell for drag racing. I wonder if the posi delete had that in mind...the big thing about this car in my mind is it’s originality. As far as I know it is Unrestored..... Because of that, it’s low miles and the original nature of the car, it’s a very high value car. If it was restored it may be worth a third of what it is now in my view. It is a very historic car that remained hidden in plain sight for years in the shadows of the “real two” other ZL1 cars. The white car saved this thing in a way....
The sad thing is that today due to all of the restoration, faking and cheating, few believe anymore what is or was real.
Last edited by international blue; 08-02-2019 at 11:59 PM.
08-03-2019, 03:20 PM
#43
Intermediate
Member Since: May 2019
Location: Principality of Sealand
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
3 Posts
Ok...y'all probably dont care as I am certainly not a known expert - or an unknown one either - on these cars [or most anything else] but...
Back in the early 80s - 80 or 81, I cant remember - I wrote a research paper/thesis in college on ZL1 Corvettes. This was before most people even know about them and way before the cars got stupid expensive, hence, the fraudulent activity level was low. The paper was for a R&W [rhetoric and writing] class; the thrust of the assignment was to develop and utilise research skills and produce a coherent and cohesive paper - subject didnt matter, so I picked something that interested me. Anyway, this was way before the internet and really before there was TOO much organisation in the Corvette hobby. The ncrs was in its infancy.
Long story short is that after a hellacious long distance phone bill, talking to many folk that did / should know, I was left with the understanding that only 2 cars were ever produced on the assembly line / for sale to the public. A yellow one and a white one as I remember. There were a couple of 'engineering mules' that 'may' [cough cough] have seen some time on certain streets in the Detroit area, but they did not start life as/roll off the line in St Louis as ZL1 cars. Racers may well have built a couple more.
Through a friend who knew Ernie Callard, I was able to speak directly with him and even Vince Piggins once; learned some fun stuff from them and even got a couple of trick part numbers and good advice for a Corvette I was building at the time.
Just my 2 cents andworth what it costs you...
Back in the early 80s - 80 or 81, I cant remember - I wrote a research paper/thesis in college on ZL1 Corvettes. This was before most people even know about them and way before the cars got stupid expensive, hence, the fraudulent activity level was low. The paper was for a R&W [rhetoric and writing] class; the thrust of the assignment was to develop and utilise research skills and produce a coherent and cohesive paper - subject didnt matter, so I picked something that interested me. Anyway, this was way before the internet and really before there was TOO much organisation in the Corvette hobby. The ncrs was in its infancy.
Long story short is that after a hellacious long distance phone bill, talking to many folk that did / should know, I was left with the understanding that only 2 cars were ever produced on the assembly line / for sale to the public. A yellow one and a white one as I remember. There were a couple of 'engineering mules' that 'may' [cough cough] have seen some time on certain streets in the Detroit area, but they did not start life as/roll off the line in St Louis as ZL1 cars. Racers may well have built a couple more.
Through a friend who knew Ernie Callard, I was able to speak directly with him and even Vince Piggins once; learned some fun stuff from them and even got a couple of trick part numbers and good advice for a Corvette I was building at the time.
Just my 2 cents andworth what it costs you...
The following users liked this post:
85nova (08-04-2019)
08-04-2019, 11:12 AM
#45
Instructor
ZL1 Thesis
I'd love to read your thesis.
Ok...y'all probably dont care as I am certainly not a known expert - or an unknown one either - on these cars [or most anything else] but...
Back in the early 80s - 80 or 81, I cant remember - I wrote a research paper/thesis in college on ZL1 Corvettes. This was before most people even know about them and way before the cars got stupid expensive, hence, the fraudulent activity level was low. The paper was for a R&W [rhetoric and writing] class; the thrust of the assignment was to develop and utilise research skills and produce a coherent and cohesive paper - subject didnt matter, so I picked something that interested me. Anyway, this was way before the internet and really before there was TOO much organisation in the Corvette hobby. The ncrs was in its infancy.
Long story short is that after a hellacious long distance phone bill, talking to many folk that did / should know, I was left with the understanding that only 2 cars were ever produced on the assembly line / for sale to the public. A yellow one and a white one as I remember. There were a couple of 'engineering mules' that 'may' [cough cough] have seen some time on certain streets in the Detroit area, but they did not start life as/roll off the line in St Louis as ZL1 cars. Racers may well have built a couple more.
Through a friend who knew Ernie Callard, I was able to speak directly with him and even Vince Piggins once; learned some fun stuff from them and even got a couple of trick part numbers and good advice for a Corvette I was building at the time.
Just my 2 cents andworth what it costs you...
Back in the early 80s - 80 or 81, I cant remember - I wrote a research paper/thesis in college on ZL1 Corvettes. This was before most people even know about them and way before the cars got stupid expensive, hence, the fraudulent activity level was low. The paper was for a R&W [rhetoric and writing] class; the thrust of the assignment was to develop and utilise research skills and produce a coherent and cohesive paper - subject didnt matter, so I picked something that interested me. Anyway, this was way before the internet and really before there was TOO much organisation in the Corvette hobby. The ncrs was in its infancy.
Long story short is that after a hellacious long distance phone bill, talking to many folk that did / should know, I was left with the understanding that only 2 cars were ever produced on the assembly line / for sale to the public. A yellow one and a white one as I remember. There were a couple of 'engineering mules' that 'may' [cough cough] have seen some time on certain streets in the Detroit area, but they did not start life as/roll off the line in St Louis as ZL1 cars. Racers may well have built a couple more.
Through a friend who knew Ernie Callard, I was able to speak directly with him and even Vince Piggins once; learned some fun stuff from them and even got a couple of trick part numbers and good advice for a Corvette I was building at the time.
Just my 2 cents andworth what it costs you...
The following users liked this post:
85nova (08-06-2019)
08-04-2019, 04:06 PM
#48
Dr. Detroit
Member Since: Mar 2012
Location: New Braunfels Texas
Posts: 9,963
Received 3,893 Likes
on
2,564 Posts
The following users liked this post:
85nova (08-06-2019)
08-06-2019, 03:36 AM
#49
Instructor
1969 ZL1 big-block
Yes, black stripes are killer!
A new ZL1 shortblock 'only' costs $7K https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/12370850.html
Hey, why not put fuel injection on it like the Can-Am cars?
A new ZL1 shortblock 'only' costs $7K https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/12370850.html
Hey, why not put fuel injection on it like the Can-Am cars?
08-16-2019, 02:55 AM
#51
Does anyone have photos of the trim tags on the yellow, white or orange cars? I'd be curious how they appear. Would love to read Guy's thesis as well!
Last edited by rynoshark; 08-16-2019 at 02:56 AM.
08-18-2019, 11:48 PM
#52
Burning Brakes
Yes, black stripes are killer!
A new ZL1 shortblock 'only' costs $7K https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/12370850.html
Hey, why not put fuel injection on it like the Can-Am cars?
A new ZL1 shortblock 'only' costs $7K https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/12370850.html
Hey, why not put fuel injection on it like the Can-Am cars?
They don't seem to sell an assembled short-block.
If you want the whole thing, it's only $23k and change:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-19166392
The following users liked this post:
85nova (08-18-2019)