blue67ragtop

Let me say to those that have had a bad experience with jerks and self appointed experts, these types do not represent the majority of people in the NCRS. I am sorry for your experience but unfortunately a small percentage often can influence the opinions of many.

BBCorv70

I am a relatively new member of the NCRS, attended the national convention in Denver last year. The majority of people I met were quite friendly, encouraging, did not push any agenda on me to conform. Most simply said if I were interested in pursuing restoration, then go for it. I enjoyed looking over the cars which were restored, learned a bit of how mine differs, my option to correct if I feel inclined. I learned a bit of trivia which I found interesting while attending some seminars. You will find people who may have extreme views in most any crowd but will also find some very helpful people as well. I had the pleasure of meeting Alan71 from this forum while visiting, someone who is probably more representative of many NCRS members.

I find the openess of the NCRS to be one of their strengths. Anyone may participate. They work to a standard of restoration which can be defined, not a matter of personal tastes, anybody may participate if they wish as opposed to the collector crowd which is about being exclusive, sometimes elitist. If your numbers don't match, the NCRS makes little of it. From the collectors POV, you cannot be part of the exclusive club. I've thought the subset of collectors who look for ways of pointing out how their cars are superior over what you own to be the jerks. You'll find some in the NCRS though not the majority.

I did note there were few people under 50 attending the conference. Could it be the timing? How many people want to take time out of work to go to one of these events, especially if there's a fair amount of travel? People who are retired don't have this problem.

oldgto

In my line of work, (and many others, I`m sure) it only takes one jerk with no customer service skills to make the whole department look bad. Then, all other members have to work that much harder to remove that stigma created by one guy.

marshal135

BBCORV70,
I enjoyed your response. It off sets the fly off the handle responses
some have after an initial bad experience with any organization.
I'm glad you got to meet Alan71. I personally would love to meet him.
From what I sense from the forum he is a most helpful and kind and knowledgeable corvette enthusiast who has forgotten more about these cars than I will ever learn. His picture library is the holy grail of AIMS hands down. No crappy blurry photocopies in his library unlike my AIM which probably is the 100,000 photo copy of the original.

But to get to my main point.
You mention no one under 50 at the meet?
As a father of a 22 y/o son who is not interested in old cars and
motorcycles I can expand on this a little.
I'm 53 and remember human interaction.
We attended events to be amongst other humans.
We talked we laughed we shared we went home we promised to be back again next year.
With the advent of social media, texting, computer gaming etc...
we have a generation of young people that can function sans without human interaction.
They can text, sext, game and chat for days on in with out sleep and never encounter another soul face to face.
I have invited my son to learn about my 1972 Norton Commando, the first super bike not really interested, I have invited him to join me under the hood of my 68 BB. Again no interest.
These young people for the most part are not car types and if they are its the ones they identify with on a video game.
50 year old corvettes are just not sought out by the millennial generation.
A friend of mine in his 60's shared the same experience with his hot rod club. Very few young guys are interested in the Hot Rod scene.
I believe its an era they are not from so they can not relate.
There are some exceptions to everything but overall I think this is a fair assessment.
I even tried to sit down and try Call off Duty with my son.
After dying repeatedly, I got bored and excused my self from the game.
Most young people would rather Google the topic and get an immediate answer rather than sit down in a room full of car enthusiasts.
I would love to sit and talk carbs with Lars. Most young people have no
interest from my experience.
The young are interested in cars they see in their generation.
The way we interact has affected our hobbies as well.
Our local cruise night is all grandfather aged men with their classics.
Occasionally, we have a young person show up with a tuner type from fast and furious. They know all about the electronic stuff but mention carbs and they give you a blank stare.
The next generation is coming. I do not know where my 68 will go when I depart.
Just some rambling thoughts......
Marshal

High Altitude Vette

What.. the club that thinks the proper amount of rust on a exhaust system is important.. is in trouble??
Maybe the "numbers" that they should have been watching were on the check book ledger
Gary

PHIL 68

Marshal I think you pretty much nailed it. Phil

The13Bats

"elitist a-holes" someone posted some NCES members act like that, not the first time I have heard that...pretty hash huh?

There is always a reason for harsh stereotypes and if you have read my posts I defend NCRS as a whole not that one NCRS member has ever defended a modded car ( that I have seen them do ) ( defended in a non belittling condescending way ) but I have seen them bash cars and even had mine bashed, yet I still do not damn NCRS as a whole, perhaps I am askew after reading what oldgto posted,



It got me thinking I have seen some NCRS members thump their chests that they are "elitists" they may not raise a big flag trashing every modded car they see but you still get the vibe of how they feel.
But wait, some of the biggest "elitists" I have had the misfortune of coming across have restro mods that they feel are the end all to be all of the c3, they do not let up on how cool their car is and how great they are for building it, and if you don't build like they did you are beneath them in an odd twist just like NCRS want cars to be factory correct the modded "elitists" seem to all gravitate to clone builds of each other..

Back to NCRS, what is so loud and well said is oldgtos comment,

Then, all other members have to work that much harder to remove that stigma created by one guy.


I have never seen this idea from the NCRS members who are deemed the "good ones" in fact I wouldn't be surprised if someone will reply that members are not responsible for what other members do, but you will have to accept it is not only hurting NCRS but the corvette hobby in general...others actions in your club do reflect on you, this is the idea behind the rico law.

Then marshal hits a huge nail on the head,

I love changing times and tech I loved going from records to VHS to Disks mp3s.
I never liked being told at a show or cruise how my build had to be or taking one so called gurus opinions on how he builds transmissions as the end of the story, the Internet allows us in a few moments to get the opinions from a zillion experts I listen to all of it then pick out what is correct when applied to my build....nothing bores me faster than some cat spewing his way is the only way.

Nothing stays the same, the changing times are why I sold out of the night club business,
But I do not agree the hot rod scene is dead, or that all the younger crowd hates cars they just evolved, I am 51 when I was younger and coming into cars the ones I could score were not new but not cars my dad or grandpa hopped up either, lead sleds did little for me...just like my vette does little for the 16 yo today gear heads of today who do watch fast and furious and do tune their cars with lap tops that can spank our old school stuff, true, the new gen of rev heads do not normally hang with the old carbbed guys, I would see a "tuner" come into a cruise and get all bashed and belittled for hopping up his import so I do not blame him for going to the next parking lot that is twice as full of tuners as the codgers cruise is full of lawn chairs.
And it's not just imports, how does a person hop up a later corvette,camaro or mustang that is all computer controlled? things change there are youth who love car crafting just not our antiquated version of it, just like I didn't dig lead sleds or flatheads when I was 16.

What all this has in common and boils down to is the future of the hobby, it's all symbiotic, ranging from the NCRS to restro modders to import tuners, the biggest problem is the bad apples who forgot or never had a car crafters camaraderie attitude...

vettebuyer6369

I think found between the lines of bats' post is this undiscussed point: not every purist, elitist or ignorant jerk is necessarily related to the NCRS at all.

NCRS get all the blame for disrespect of modded cars. But as bats mentioned, now you have "elitist" restomod guys who put down modified cars that are not at their supposed level or who do not do whatever's trendy according to Bitchin' Rides. Walk around SEMA some year and listen to people talk... They aren't in NCRS.

Sounds like the behavior that NCRS is identified with.

Bats also mentioned people posting threads of crazy maybe not great wild customs and people trashing them. I'm not sure all the people are NCRS elitists. People do have the right to their opinions.

I used to show custom Corvettes in the 80s. Even back then, I understood not everyone likes my personal taste in modifications. I had days when I could win Best Paint at a show where I still had several people stick their tongues out at my paint. I didn't get shook up because I knew this is what you are taking on when you have a car modified to suit your tastes. Some of those people might have been NCRS "snobs"' but I believe most were not.

The13Bats

while no modded or custom car will please everyone and taste is personal the bad apples will trash any and all cars just because when boiled down to it it's not their build, I admit I do not dig hack jobs but I can accept a well built car isn't to my taste and still not feel the need to bash and trash it just to try to belittle the owner...my guilty exception to this is if a braggadocio is beating a dead horse too long I might point out the parts of their build I do not like, still not to the level of bashing and trashing a sweet build I simply do not like.

oldgto

EXACTLY! Any real "car builder" MUST realize the time, thought, money, and sweat it took to achieve whatever it is he`s looking at.... be it a radical custom, 100 point perfect restoration of anything, muscle car, sports car, super car, whatever. So why then, would he berate anything that falls outside the realm of his own personal tastes?
I am an artist. I love pen & ink sketching. I`m not going to $hit all over your work because you use water-colors. I can appreciate ALL mediums and styles, and admire different techniques. And I think that is relevant to the question of the future of the NCRS, or any group for that matter. As membership ages, and the popularity of these cars (in pure form) diminishes, a truly pin-point focused group is bound to fade slowly into non-existance unless they can widen their view, and be a little more open to new ideas, and recruit new membership.
I`m not talking about changing the mission, as was mentioned earlier, but being more receptive to those who think "outside the box".

The13Bats

Thanks Jim,
I said that a bit bassakwards I was trying to say that I can fully respect the high end craftsmanship builds even if I do not like the end result, not my cup o tea, I do not have any need to bash said build,

A bit more on that, while I have seen some guys on this very forum just acting like horses *** curmudgeons spewing their mind set that even thought the craftsmanship is very good the car is a tacky mess and they hate it , it sucks the builder ruined a vette, it's worthless etc, negative pointless remarks ad nauseam it's completely their right to do that and make themselves look the way it makes them look and it does hurt the hobby, it's also my right to post how I feel about those types.

You steered the thread back to the op topic about the future of the NCRS,
some have taken on the idea that the ncrs needs to think outside the box, have a wider view, let me be honest, I do not know all that much about the ncrs rules but I am under the impression their main goal is restoring a corvette to as close as possible to the way it was the day it left the assembly line,

if I am correct in that thinking then things like "out side the box thinking" do not apply it would open a big bucket of worms to allow in modded cars, what a mess that would be, some people see your car as radical modded others see what I am doing as radical and still for me to get radical one needs a build like richards or denpos,

Like I said before for people to tell the ncrs to change their basic goals and ideas is the same as someone telling us how to build our modded cars,

the fact is modded c3's is a trend that is growing not dying, the few younger people buying c3's are mostly buying the 74-82's easier to find at better prices than the 68-72/3's these buyers of 74-82's are almost 100% modding these cars even little mods are mods and they sure are not going for ncrs awards with them, their is a finite amount of corvettes, many of the most stunning ncrs corvettes have been that way many years and are staying that way for many years to come.
I also have to wonder does anyone with c4 and never do the factory correct restorations, I believe those cars are mostly modded too.

I get it, I understand how you feel, I simply believe that if to widen their view that means taking in modded cars then their main goal ( what I believe it to be ) will be lost, in a way they will be selling out there is simply no way to get the younger/current vette buyers to jump on the factory correct train...

I believe the c2's and some 68-72/3's ( very few 74-82's ) will keep the ncrs alive, it will shrink but it will get new members who will be acquiring the factory correct cars as being the result of it being left to them, so ncrs will not technically grow since it will be the same cars just passed down.

I will open my own thinking for a moment,
Perhaps the NCRS should appeal to their members take a big huge vote ask the question should we have a said category for corvettes that are modded, not get hung up on if the mods are a little or a lot but have the factory correct cars on one side of the room have the mods on the other side and ask everyone to play nice with each other....would that work?

Rowdy Rat

This is going to happen. Sooner rather than later.

Regards,

Stan

cv67

Also think the high values lots of these old cars wont be at some point in our lifetime. As the crowd dies of so will interest

Remember in the 80s when a T bucket cost major bux they can be had for cheap now.

Hope for the purist guys the NCRS sticks around many of them need to learn that not everyone that owns one cares about "correct".

I quit taking mine to cruise nights as EVERY time I parked was a matter of time before some boob had to, unsolicted give me his opinion of what was incorrect. Get a LIFE

LOL
Only show I entered was strictly for good parking
Was at the track the night before, car (90Z) was dirty from hours of driving. Staff had me park it between a nice C2 and 3. Soon as I got out all I heard was "Oh no, now Im going to lose that dirty thing makes my car look bad. WAHHHH" Left it there all day

The13Bats

if not then they will not grow but rather slowly shrink....

redvetracr

If I never hear the words "date code" again it would be too soon, even the guys who will never get their car judged are obsessed with those two words.

ddawson

Let us know what the out come is. I'll gladly re join now that I went in another direction.

oldgto

Sorry about that.... I should have clarified a little more. I`m not thinking they should allow in modified cars, or as I mentioned before, change the mission.... I was thinking more along the lines of education, and ACCEPTANCE of all other levels of car building.
As in any organization that offers a service, you first must let people know what you do, and how they can use your service or benefit from it, and then you have to be open and inviting enough for people to want to see more.
Time and time again in this thread we`ve heard many tales of bad encounters.... and though it is highly likely those "purist" type individuals causing the problems are not even involved in the NCRS.... many people are (for some reason) quick to assume that they are representative of the type of people in that organization.
So what I am saying is.... in order for the NCRS to grow, they MUST educate, and present, and overcome that stigma that seems to have befallen them.

rloblaw

Who says the NCRS has to grow? The number of cars either restored or candidates for restoration is not growing. The definition of restoration precludes modified cars. What is wrong with that? I don't think the people interested in restoration should snub anybody else's car, modified or not. It's a fricking hobby but unfortunately the whole B-J and Mecum hoopla brings out the greed in people. I think NCRS definitely needs to redefine itself. I was a member and am no longer. I would consider rejoining if the hobby focus comes back rather than the 6-figure focus. I am restoring my car because I love doing it. I am really trying to make it as correct as possible/reasonable. My 23 year-old son likes to help me in the garage too. Just my two cents.

DUB

My final 'take' on the NCRS.

If they do not change and adapt to the 'times'. This may just hurt them due to the 'mission statement' they choose to follow.

The 'R' in NCRS is RESTORERS...and who is to 'say' they this word can not include RESTORERS who do not follow EXACT FACTORY assembled practices....but a slight 'slant' on that. I felt that....that is going to be a major challenge for them due to changing on what the club has been doing for so long. Some people just do not like change. It will take a new changing of the guards....so a possible re-formatting can take place.
I look at it like this.... and many of us know about it and ahve seen or experienced it. Some companies that were selling/marketing only one thing...such as a doughnuts, pizza's, fried chicken or roast beef... for example. Only selling the thing they named themselves after being the primary product. Then...they HAD to branch out to other types of food that are NOT what the name implies....in order to grab more of a market share and NOT 'pigeon hole' themselves into a market that can not support itself any longer by that product alone.

DUB

oldgto

Good point.... and I actually changed that from my original thought of "keep from dying off", to maintain, then to "grow".