65GGvert

I bought a 72 350 all original (except paint) recently. The non-power steering is almost impossible in a parking lot. I just took a look at the steering arms and the ball joints are in the forward most holes, as in a power steering car. (faster ratio). How much easier is it to steer if I move to the rear holes in the arm? And is there anything negative I need to consider if I move to those rear holes. I'm not really concerned about the slower steering ratio as much as I am about the amount of force it takes to turn the wheel at slow speeds. I'm thinking I might try it before I go to power steering. Any advice is appreciated.

redvetracr

they are called tie rod ends, not ball joints, moving them will change your "toe" which will need to be adjusted

Alan 71

Hi 65,
Since the rear holes are only about 1-1/2" behind the front holes, I don't think the change in steering effort will be noticeable.
The change will only be a slight difference in the precise number of turns of the steering wheel from lock to lock.
Regards,
Alan

65GGvert

Yeah, sorry about that, I was reading about all the components and typed what I was thinking. So is it pretty much agreed that moving the tie rod ends to the back hole would not be enough improvement in the steering force to try.

65GGvert

Thanks,, with the way the rod bends toward the center, it looks like it would change the force without affecting the toe-in very much. Sort of like a longer lever with a stronger angle to push the wheels. I know that if it doesn't help, I will add power steering. I'm getting too old to fight a car to drive it.

Hammerhead Fred

It does make a noticeable difference.
If you can remove them from the spindle with the car on the ground - without moving the tires or raising the car - and re-install them in the rear holes by adjusting the tie-rod end until they drop in the hole, you can test this out yourself. If you like the difference go get an alignment.

65GGvert

Thank you for the reply.

procketus

Hi, Figured you show up here with a question on steering sooner or later. If you haven't looked already,someone is selling a complete p/s system(minus pump) in the parts for sale section.

Steve

qwank

I think I would move them to the position GM designed them to be in.

The13Bats

In my 66 ( same suspension as your car ) I really couldnt "feel" any big if any difference...

65GGvert

Thanks Steve, I'll take a look.

65GGvert

If I add power steering, they will already be there.

65GGvert

Thanks,,,that's what I'm afraid of.

TheSkunkWorks

I've driven manual steer C3s with the tie-rod ends in both settings, and IMHO the difference is enough to be noticeable at parking lot speeds.


Stock box ratio is 16.1:1, with overall PS/"quick" 17.6:1 and manual/"slow" 20.2:1, so by the maths you'll gain ~15% mechanical advantage by moving to the rear holes.

65GGvert

Thanks for the information, I think I'll give it a try. It's almost unusable as it is. Thanks again.

The13Bats

My 66 still wasnt fun to park...

dugsgms74

I switched my 68 non p/s car to the "quick" holes, didnt seem too much different at low speeds but felt more responsive at highway speeds(could be purely psychosomatic though)

Mashman

I removed all of my power steering components and went with a complete stock manual setup. So I replaced the drag link, and pitman arm, and moved the tie rods.

I think the tie rod position does make a difference, mainly when you need to turn the wheel when the car is stopped.

If the toe needs to be set, it's pretty easy to do yourself.

Run a string between a couple of jackstands. The height of the string should be about halfway up the tire, and run in front of the hubs. The string needs to be parrallel to the centerline of the car. For my 72 the rear is .7" wider than the front, so I put the string .35" further out from the front hub than the rear. The string needs to run past the front of the front tire.

In order to set the toe (I set mine at 1/8 in) you want to adjust the tie rod so that the distance from the tire to the string is 1/16 greater in the front than the rear (to get the total 1/8th in that I want).

To adjust the tie rods I use some cheap ceramic tiles and grease. Jack up the tire, put down one ceramic tile smooth side up, put on a glob of grease, and then put another tile smooth side down, then lower the tire onto the tiles. This will allow you to adjust the tie rod with weight on the suspension.

It really is pretty simple, figure an hour (two with beer).

65GGvert

This sounds reasonable. If I have weight on the tires and remove the tie rod ends and adjust so they drop in, and IF the toe was right to begin with, it seems it should be after.

Hammerhead Fred

Yup, that's how I did it long ago.
Required more effort to steer when moving very slow to slow (think parking lot) with them in the closest/power slots. Moved them back into the manual holes the next week. Really makes no difference when on the road/highway - the wheels are spinning fast and how many tight maneuvers to you make at those speeds anyway?

BTW: I was younger and thinner then - would be easier to accomplish on ramps