theblackvette

Thanks for giving me a call this morning, especially on Easter Sunday.

Our discussion helped me a great deal and I am formulating a plan based on our communication.

I have taken several deep breaths and keeping cool. Several comments about the restoration have been very concerning to me by others. In a nutshell, the details need to be paid attention to and I am looking to have them addressed.

Although, I thought this was a done deal with this carb, it clearly is not and is currently continuing. We will see how it plays out. Thanks for your insight and advice to me today. It was most appreciated.

Mike Ward

Just as a calibration point- not many people needing a carb rebuild give a flying flatus about original factory appearance and judging points, other than rust and dirt is ugly. I wouldn't expect a rebuilder to worry too much about the exact correct sheen of dichromate plating or the shape of fasteners heads that have absolutely no impact on performance or reliability but a huge impact on rebuild cost.

I'm not sure if Cliff does 100 point cosmetic restorations even if asked and clearly here there was no meeting of the minds prior to undertaking work on the new carb.

dtamustang

I have to agree with MW on this one. if I would have to make a guess it would be this a classic case of miscommunication. I have heard and read too many good things about CR for him to not do a quality job. there has been a recent thread concerning almost the same situation only with a much larger part , and I would chalk that one up to miscommunication as well.

theblackvette

I have reviewed my email communications with him and there were several discussions about NCRS judging prior to the start of the work. In fact I even mentioned the month that I was planning on getting my car judged.

Additionally, there was communication about the the rusted and pitted parts and how most of the metal parts will need to be replaced. Furthermore, there was discussion of bead blasting and seeing what can be saved and then locating donor parts to make up the difference.

tokim

Observing posts here about how thorough and intense TBV's search was for this car, and all things associated/related to this dream car of his..I am convinced, his concerns/demands would have been discussed prior to his selection/commitment of a carb rebuilder.
The carb should look, and perform as originally designed (especially for the price, I'm sure he must have spent).
Good luck TBV, on making this carb "right", I'm sure you won't be content, until it is.

briankeery

Well said

dtamustang

I stand corrected....if there was a clear understanding of your expectations , and it sounds like there was , there are certainly issues that need to be addressed.

theblackvette

Thanks tokim for your feedback. You hit the nail on the head with your post.

Best regards

Mark G

Looks good in general, and I hope it runs out well. I agree there are a number of good carb rebuilders out there that do a great job. What I don't get is why you didn't send along (or they didn't ask for) a doner carb that had good (non-rusty) linkages and other metal parts? When pitted parts are plated, they don't look very good, and, any rust in the pits will start to rust back up pretty quick. I guess you can always change those parts down the road with new.

I would coat your cad plated pieces in WD40 to help keep the cad plating looking as nice as you can. Also, if you have parts cad plated in the future, you want to be sure whatever shop does it, doesn't bead blast, or sandblast the parts (a lot of plating places do). That won't turn out very well. You want the parts soaked in acid (well, it's not 'really' an acid) to remove all rust, but leaves all metal surfaces smooth and untextured ...assuming it isn't rust pitted.

Thanks for sharing!

theblackvette

Mark thank you for your kind response. The use of donor parts was discussed prior to the rebuilding of the carb. I do not know why these pitted parts were used. I am still looking for answers. I am very dissapointed in myself. I thought I was doing the right things and spoke to several rebuilders. Unfortunately I should have done my homework prior. Specifically understand the process and be able to describe what I wanted done part by part. I assumed since it was discussed that this is for judging purposes that I would end up with a ncrs quality product. Call me nieve, amateur, oblivious or whatever because that is what it is. If it quacks and walks like a duck then it is a duck. I am trying hard for damage control here. Many have reached out to me here and off the forum. But I made my bed and I have to sleep in it. I am not one to quit so I am trying to develop and implement a plan. I want a ncrs quality carburetor plain and simple. I think it can still be done with this carburetor. And considering how rare it is and the nice date code I need to make this work no matter what it takes. I hope others learn from my experience. I wouldnt wish this on anyone. It really is not only embarassing but just amateur. Acting without proper knowledge. I thank you for everyones support but I don't need sympathy. I need to be the one to help myself get past this. Best regards.

63vette427

Marc... as you know we have done a ton of PM's about this. To let everyone know, I'm going through some of the same issues when it comes to having a carb built to NCRS standards. Many of the same issues that came up with Marc's carb came up with mine, ie plating and choke linkage issues.. I didn't have the pitting issues though..

I think a lot of the communication issues come from the amount of time between arrival of the carb, inspection, and finished product. I like Marc was looking for an NCRS restored quality carb in the end. When the carb was sent in I expressed what I was looking for. It was agreed upon that it could be done with the carb. A month later I received an estimate which was expectable for what needed to be done. Then 2-3 months later it shows up at the door. I am new to having Corvettes restored to NCRS standard and like Marc, should have done more homework. I will say some things no matter how much homework you do, you can't learn enough until things happen. I understand that some of the rebuilders back logs are very long, I still feel that more communications could have happened it insure the proper product was returned. On my car, I have used almost every top rated vendor and restorer recommended through the forum. Even not knowing everything I needed to know they were able to help me get the product finished the way I wanted it to be.

I think this hobby is a great one with so much to learn by almost everyone. I hope Marc ends up with the carb he is looking for. As for me, I have a great running carb that needs some work to get it to an NCRS standard. If was having my car judged this year, I'm sure I would be far more upset.

theblackvette

Thanks for your comments.....With that said I have developed a problem list. Everything that I currently know that is "wrong" with this carburetor. This will be the list I will give to the individual that continues with the cosmetic NCRS restoration. Essentially it appears I received was a rebuild without the cosmetics I was expecting.

The problems I need addressed:

-Incorrect size, shape, gaskets on the carb
-main gasket seat that fits between base plate and main body
should be black and not purple. Nor should it be sticking out around
the carburetor body
-time dye the casting parts to get back the original goldish hue and
attempt to get more of an original type look so that the carb appears
to match all the other engine parts.
-address the body color and texture (dichromate plating/coloring)
-shape of fastener heads incorrect.
-choke rod not installed properly. needs to be reversed
-accel rods all pitted and does not appear to be original in parts
-corrosion pitted areas on linkage needs replacement perhaps
from a donor carb

I am sure there are other items that will be discovered. But one must inventory what needs correction. If anyone sees anything else that is not listed please feel free to jump in. Thanks.

Mark G

I didn't say it before, but it appears from the pictures (but it's difficult to see), however, it looks like the carb body was glass beaded. It should be smooth. If that was the case, it would have to be sanded and polished like with a dremel tool, then re-plated. As corroded as it was, it probably would have shown pitting as it was, so the beading (if it in fact WAS bead blasted) probably created a more uniform surface than what it would have been just raw plating. You can't dip the aluminum body in the same bath you would the metal parts during the zinc plating process. Either way, the carb would have needed to be polished to remove aluminum corrosion pitting and that takes a lot of time. You would really have to specify that process. Most of the other parts that are pitted can be replaced from a donor carb you can find at a swap meet.

Also, shouldn't the butterfly linkage be clear (silver) zinc? That or green, I can't remember.

Have you looked at these guys?
http://www.nationalcarburetors.com/

Mark G

arkus

so whats your next move ?

theblackvette

arkus: very good question.

I have been corresponding with the rebuilder and it appears I simply need to be thankful that he was able to put life back in this carburetor. A functioning 7041205 for my car with a correct date! That is something to be VERY enthusiastic about.

Unfortunately, my expectations are not what I thought they would be.
Although I was very clear on what I wanted from this carb it appears I only got a carburetor rebuild. It is clear this carburetor was rebuilt to function and without the bling bling associated with a NCRS cosmetic restoration. A carburetor rebuild is not the same as a NCRS cosmetic restoration.

Although I could put this in my car and be confident that it will perform very well, it certainly is not ready for any kind of judging. Through my research many more improvements can be made cosmetically and for correctness. Based on my communication with the rebuilder I have come to the conclusion I will need to find someone who will be able to assist me further in my mission.

I thanked the rebuilder for his efforts and I have informed him that I will be seeking assistance from someone who can help me achieve my goals for this carburetor.

theblackvette

Hello Mark. Thank you for your input and knowledge. Very interesting to learn how this all works and the
rebuilder discussed bead blasting my carburetor.

According to the rebuilder, days were spend on the carb bead blasting and plating
the parts. There were dark spots from the heavy pitting. The main casting
and airhorn ended up getting several trips to the bead blaster and into chromic
acid with no improvements. The condition of the carb from sitting outside
took its toll on the carburetor. He did say it is possible to electroplate the
main casting and airhorn to put zinc back into them, but the final product
would end up looking like a gold nugget. According to him he said he
has received carbs in this condition requesting him to remove the plating
and zinc/chromate in the castings as they got point deductions during
judging at ncrs.

As for your recommendation I am not familiar with them. I am looking for someone that has NCRS cosmetic restoration credentials and examples of their work. I have received some recommendations. If this company has those same credentials I would consider taking a look.

This time I am spelling out word for word exactly what I need done and to be clear as crystal on what I am expecting out of a NCRS cosmetic restoration.

My goal is to get this carburetor in the BEST condition possible. I know it will function considering where it was rebuilt. If I take a hit from any condition points it will NOT be because I didn't pay attention to detail and didn't get this carb in the best condition possible.

theblackvette

It was my understanding that he had access to parts. In fact he did replace, some.

What I received was a "rebuild." It appears that I did not receive a "show rebuild" performed on this carburetor as seen from the problem list I provided.

Therefore, I cannot put on price on what I am going to be in this carb for just yet.

Alan 71

Hi Marc,
I read through the recent posts and would only caution that whatever might be done to the body of the carb needs to take into consideration the importance of the appearance of the part number and date stamps.
I could see those becoming shallow or even disappearing from some of the things being proposed.
That would be very disappointing regardless of how nice the carb and it's parts might end up looking.
Make SURE everyone understands the goal here. You don't want to end up with the proper carb but with stamped information that makes it look like a re-stamp!!
Regards,
Alan

theblackvette

Oh Alan!!!!! Thank you for this most important statement.

Did this even cross my mind? Absolutely not!

I will have to be sure to include this in my consideration in trying to improve the body color. It will surely be discussed.

I do hope to get a 100 point carb but 95 would be great. In it's present state I am batting a 50 condition wise.

Ever since those pitted parts were brought to my attention they are just yuck!!!!!

I am in the process of finding an inexpensive donor carb to provide to the next rebuilder to swap parts from. There seems to be many cost friendly donors out there. I am full steam on getting this done, but it doesn't have to be done today.

Again, thanks so much for stepping forward with this important statement about the date stamp and part number preservation.

Paul L

Sometimes things can get out of hand with pretty. Sort of the polar opposite of what you are experiencing. But there is a happy compromise...somewhere? This #7044206 for my 1974 would be considered over-done with too much bling. But I'm OK with that as my car will never be judged. It is a Lars graduate but he had nothing to do with the shiny pieces, just the vital and important innards.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c3-t...etty-carb.html