BBCorv70

I'd say documentation is important when a buyer is willing to pay for an ORIGINAL big block car or high performance small block. Back in the day people didn't buy them for casual Sunday drives, many were blown up, making the true originals even more valuable. These cars are the most attractive to clone or pass off a replacement block as original.

Documentation such as past owner history, invoice, POP, or tank sticker. Documentation could be faked though it's an extra step I haven't heard of as often. The car should be easier to resell if it has documentation over one which does not. It's a pedigree of sorts.

If you're concerned about getting burned, being sold a clone or NOM presented as an original, best to have an expert look over the stamp pad and documentation.

You'll never be able to prove anything is original. It comes down to having evidence backing your claim of originality which the next buyer would accept. Nothing worse than paying big $$, then find out it's a fake when you want to sell. A fake can look and drive as well as any original, it's the next buyer who I'd be concerned with.

steve0415

Here is another Pad Stamp from a 1970 LS5 454.

Steve

Easy Mike

They were printed before the VIN was assigned and were intended to help assembly line workers. The workers did not need the VIN since they relied on job numbers.

Steve0415: your first four pics are from 1971 models. 71 after the strike was the only year for the C11 format.

joewill

there are several levels of what 'documentation' is. each car you look at will probably have a different level. each can be faked. and don't necessarily blame the seller. the car might have been faked several owners back.
there are lots of owners who think they have the original engine but in fact they don't. a car can have various levels of NCRS awards and still not have the original engine or documentation. All I have to do is drive my car to the judging from a couple of hundred miles away and have a fire extinguisher and I can make up for all points lost on the stamp pad judging.

even the PMD report means nothing unless you run the report yourself through PMD. it is just as easily faked.

having documentation and having an original engine are entirely 2 separate things. one does not imply the other,

there are many scenarios where a faked car can get by a potential new owners diligence. you just have to decide how much diligence you are going to do.

kenba

But at least you know it was a factory 454.

Mike Ward

True- but that's of little consolation when you find out that your car is one of the restamps in the collection of photos above.

BBCorv70

As I said in my amended posting it's the NEXT buyer who has to be convinced the car has its original block. If future buyers think the car is a clone or a NOM, even if in fact it is original, the premium paid will be lost. Documentation can be faked, doesn't prove anything but I'd say its better to have some than not. All a matter of confidence the next buyer has when considering its originality. For that matter, a well done clone or NOM is no different so long as future buyers can't tell.

68/70Vette

I bought a 1970 Corvette Coupe in 1992. The seller said it was not an original engine. From what I've been told, from the engine stamping number, the engine block was originally in a 1969 427 Chevy SS Impala.
The 1970 Corvette had a 454 engine. If the block was from a '69 Impala, 427, it'd work fine as a 454 with a 454 crank. The 47 was internally balanced...the 454 needed weights on the damper and flywheel.

jr9170

Steve,although that is not a great pic of the engine pad of that blue 70 454 i do believe it is the original and not a restamp.I have looked at many over the past 25 years and the broach marks on that one look good.

71 Green 454

Interesting comment. When I sell my 55,000 miles '71 LS5 Convertible, there's not much I can show to prove it's an original block, other than the numbers speak for themselves. A friend of mine bought it new at Roger Whitley Chevrolet in Tampa, and I bought it from him in 1975.

It's been in my possession since 1975, so I know it's original, but proving it is another matter. I do have the worn build sheet and Protecto Plate.

mysixtynine

You know in your picture on the website.... the block behind the water pump mount seems to be built out almost like material was added (curiously right where the vin number stamp is). Its not a straight edge along the front like in all the other pictures you show.

BBCorv70

You have the advantage of knowing the ownership history of your car. Cars with fewer owners may be better bets for people looking for true originals, it has passed through fewer hands. I suspect having a build sheet and protecto plate is more than many others have. My point is you can never prove the block is original, only have enough evidence to add a bit more confidence. Being a two owner car I'd think would be a huge advantage when dealing with future buyers.

judgeman70

I have owned mostly Pontiacs the past 25 years and the majority of the 4 speed cars I have seen did not have the original motor, now that I am looking to purchase a Corvette I notice that the majority of the 4 speed cars do have the original motor. Sounds a little suspicious to me. With the Pontiacs they stamped an engine unit number and vin number on the block after 1967 plus you could get the Pontiac Historical Documentation for the cars so a bit harder to fake a Pontiac. Maybe I should stick with the Pontiacs.

dtamustang

my personal opinion is the numbers matching thing is a little over the top , a nice car is a nice car. If you are going to be consumed with numbers the enjoyment of the car is not there for me.
I also read somewhere there were more "documented" C-2 BB coupes than were ever produced , I assume its true because of the value of those cars.sooner or later it will happen to the high dollar C-3s.

judgeman70

Yes I somewhat agree the numbers thing is a little over the top but he way I look at it the numbers car is a better investment of my money. I always think about the day I would have to sell the car and more people are wanting an original honest car than not.

Easy Mike

All original C3 Corvette engines had engine ID and VIN derivitive stamps on them.

Mike Ward

Who told you that?

BBCorv70

Your remark about more people wanting a true original car in the future brings up a question I've been wondering about. As these cars get older, quality replacement parts or any replacement parts become even harder to find, will we see a bigger split in the Corvette market? For those wanting true originals I'd imagine the cars will rarely be driven if at all for lack of spare parts, suitable oils, fluids, etc. This may push people who buy the cars to drive to look into the restomod route, upgrade the drive train to operate on todays fuels, fluids, and other consumables. In that case numbers matching would be meaningless.

I've been thinking about this when I project out 10 or more years, do I want to keep the car original or might this be heading for a dead end? Exception being the very few which are pristine, essentially museum pieces...

judgeman70

Nobody told me that, just an observation and my opinion. Am I wrong?

BBCorv70

My gut feeling is quite the opposite. A 4 speed, manual transmission back in the day was more likely to be driven hard. I'm not saying the majority cannot be original, just saying I'd be suspicious. It seems like a rather unlikely correlation, 4 speed transmissions and original engines.

I'd look for a car with few prior owners and as much documentation as you can get. If your paying north of say $25K, get a 2nd opinion on the stamp pad as well.

If you're looking at a car which is presented as all original, take photos of the partial VIN on the block AND the transmission. I recall some saying the stamps should look the same, being stamped from the same tool. The alignment of the characters should be the same? Anyone disagree?