1968 C3 on eBay: What do I need to know?
03-11-2014, 02:28 AM
#1
Cruising
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1968 C3 on eBay: What do I need to know?
Howdy, I'm brand new to this site - and Corvettes in general. I have been fascinated with late 1960 model Corvettes since growing up as a child when my neighbor had one.
I have been checking for the "right buy" for the past month or so, and came across a 1968 convertible 327 (350 HP option) 4 speed with numbers matching (claimed) engine. Before bidding, I spoke with the owner over the phone and verified (in email too) that the engine is the 350 HP option, a numbers matching engine, and that there is no rust on the suspension, frame, or underneath the hood. The owner has had it since 1996 and put on 750 total miles; otherwise kept it garaged, and it is in a warm environment. His brother owned it for over a decade before that. He says there was about 58,000 miles on the odometer before it was replaced. I paid the $500 price to secure the winning bid, and owe a remaining value on the vehicle. The vehicle is in another state, and I am a 13 hour drive from that destination (it is not a big city).
My plan is to show up in the small town and inspect the vehicle myself before offering the rest of the purchase price (under 15k). I will check the birdcage and suspension for rust as much as I can personally, check the fiberglass the same way, pop the hood and inspect, and run a check on the VIN, trim tag and engine information. I will take it to a local mechanic to do a basic inspection, but the ones I have spoken to aren't classic car specialists. And I won't be able to bring a "Corvette specialist" with me. What else do I need to do to make sure I'm not buying a money pit here or getting scammed? Even though eBay offers up to $50,000 protection in such events, I'd rather avoid it beforehand. Photos I have are posted below:
Thanks!
I have been checking for the "right buy" for the past month or so, and came across a 1968 convertible 327 (350 HP option) 4 speed with numbers matching (claimed) engine. Before bidding, I spoke with the owner over the phone and verified (in email too) that the engine is the 350 HP option, a numbers matching engine, and that there is no rust on the suspension, frame, or underneath the hood. The owner has had it since 1996 and put on 750 total miles; otherwise kept it garaged, and it is in a warm environment. His brother owned it for over a decade before that. He says there was about 58,000 miles on the odometer before it was replaced. I paid the $500 price to secure the winning bid, and owe a remaining value on the vehicle. The vehicle is in another state, and I am a 13 hour drive from that destination (it is not a big city).
My plan is to show up in the small town and inspect the vehicle myself before offering the rest of the purchase price (under 15k). I will check the birdcage and suspension for rust as much as I can personally, check the fiberglass the same way, pop the hood and inspect, and run a check on the VIN, trim tag and engine information. I will take it to a local mechanic to do a basic inspection, but the ones I have spoken to aren't classic car specialists. And I won't be able to bring a "Corvette specialist" with me. What else do I need to do to make sure I'm not buying a money pit here or getting scammed? Even though eBay offers up to $50,000 protection in such events, I'd rather avoid it beforehand. Photos I have are posted below:
Thanks!
03-11-2014, 07:12 AM
#2
Drifting
Welcome TLS. It's always good to ask questions before a purchase. I am sure others will chime in and hope they do. From your description and pictures, I do notice a few minor things that are not correct for the car.
Side mirrors - Driver side only and available
Steering wheel - should replace. can find originals or repro
Exhaust tips - available
Radio - Not really a big deal
Stingray badge - 68 never had them
It sound like you have the inspection pretty well covered. Stick to your plan. Keep in mind all the rubber parts in the suspension should be replaced if still original. As far as the price, you should make a complete list of must do's and ask for advise here to help in your decision on what you are willing to pay for the car and is this in your comfort level to complete. That said, the car looks pretty good. Now the unseen has to pass inspection. You may want to remove the kick panels and check for rust at the body mounting bolts. This can indicate water leaking in from the birdcage/windshield area. Good luck.
Side mirrors - Driver side only and available
Steering wheel - should replace. can find originals or repro
Exhaust tips - available
Radio - Not really a big deal
Stingray badge - 68 never had them
It sound like you have the inspection pretty well covered. Stick to your plan. Keep in mind all the rubber parts in the suspension should be replaced if still original. As far as the price, you should make a complete list of must do's and ask for advise here to help in your decision on what you are willing to pay for the car and is this in your comfort level to complete. That said, the car looks pretty good. Now the unseen has to pass inspection. You may want to remove the kick panels and check for rust at the body mounting bolts. This can indicate water leaking in from the birdcage/windshield area. Good luck.
03-11-2014, 07:47 AM
#3
Melting Slicks
Mirrors are not correct for a car of that vintage, rims appear to be 8" rallyes instead of the 7" found on '68's, the hood is for a big block car. Can't tell from the tiny picture but, it looks like the wrong air cleaner and I don't see the ignition shielding.
Depending upon what you spent, and what you're looking to get out of the car, will determine whether or not you got a good deal or not.
Depending upon what you spent, and what you're looking to get out of the car, will determine whether or not you got a good deal or not.
03-11-2014, 07:49 AM
#4
X2 on removing the kick panels to inspect for a rusted birdcage. Suppose it would not hurt to check for wiper flap operation and whether the headlight doors actually open up. Check for brake caliper leaks, drive it, checking it for equal braking as well as getting an idea of the condition of the drivetrain. Bring a pick with you to check for rusted frame. Definitely get it up on a rack, (pull it in to the local garage), so you could poke around with that pick. The weak spot is in front of the rear tires, at the dog leg. Being new with Corvettes, it does not hurt to open the doors if the lift is not a drive on type and actually a non-drive on lift is better as it allows for better access to the frame for better pick poking.
Check the id tag to check on what is the original color. IMHO, it's a plus if it was originally rally red, or whatever they called it that year.
Cosmetically, at the very least, the steering wheel (as already noted) has to be changed and '68 wheels are not that cheap. And that outside mirror has to go.
'68's had 7 inch wide wheels and it's hard to determine whether those are 7's or 8's. The easy check is that the original type trim rings that have the 4 snap-on thingies have not gap whereas the 8 inch rims leave about a inch space between the rim and the center.
Check the id tag to check on what is the original color. IMHO, it's a plus if it was originally rally red, or whatever they called it that year.
Cosmetically, at the very least, the steering wheel (as already noted) has to be changed and '68 wheels are not that cheap. And that outside mirror has to go.
'68's had 7 inch wide wheels and it's hard to determine whether those are 7's or 8's. The easy check is that the original type trim rings that have the 4 snap-on thingies have not gap whereas the 8 inch rims leave about a inch space between the rim and the center.
03-11-2014, 08:50 AM
#5
Burning Brakes
"I paid the $500 price to secure the winning bid"
The $500 is a deposit, with the remainder of the balance to be paid as directed by the seller. It is a contract.
Is your intention to ask for your "deposit" back, if it doesn't meet your standards?, or will you willingly forfeit your $500 deposit?
Seems to me you bought the car..your do diligence should have been conducted prior to entering into a purchase contract.
Possibly, you discussed a refundable deposit with the seller, in advance?..if this is the case disregard my earlier comments.
I apologize for my rant, it just sits wrong with me, when people don't fulfill their end of a contract (if this is the case).
The sticky above, on 10 steps before buying a C3, has good information for you.
The $500 is a deposit, with the remainder of the balance to be paid as directed by the seller. It is a contract.
Is your intention to ask for your "deposit" back, if it doesn't meet your standards?, or will you willingly forfeit your $500 deposit?
Seems to me you bought the car..your do diligence should have been conducted prior to entering into a purchase contract.
Possibly, you discussed a refundable deposit with the seller, in advance?..if this is the case disregard my earlier comments.
I apologize for my rant, it just sits wrong with me, when people don't fulfill their end of a contract (if this is the case).
The sticky above, on 10 steps before buying a C3, has good information for you.
03-11-2014, 10:17 AM
#6
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Hi TLS,
Welcome! First Post! AND looking at a 68 convertible! NICE!
With out knowing the price of the car, and a LOT more information about it, it's difficult to relay to you what you should expect to see, (and then should pay), when you get there.
This car could cost $15k, $30K, $45k, or even more. What the car actually turns out to be will determine what a fair price for THIS car is.
I'd be very cautious about buying a Corvette from this era without having someone very knowledgeable about 68-69 cars take a very close look at it while the MONEY is still in MY pocket.
Not scaring you…. again, BE CAUTIOUS! These cars can be gems or nightmares and are usually somewhere in between. A person not knowledgeable about 68s won't be able to tell the difference.
Regards,
Alan
Welcome! First Post! AND looking at a 68 convertible! NICE!
With out knowing the price of the car, and a LOT more information about it, it's difficult to relay to you what you should expect to see, (and then should pay), when you get there.
This car could cost $15k, $30K, $45k, or even more. What the car actually turns out to be will determine what a fair price for THIS car is.
I'd be very cautious about buying a Corvette from this era without having someone very knowledgeable about 68-69 cars take a very close look at it while the MONEY is still in MY pocket.
Not scaring you…. again, BE CAUTIOUS! These cars can be gems or nightmares and are usually somewhere in between. A person not knowledgeable about 68s won't be able to tell the difference.
Regards,
Alan
Last edited by Alan 71; 03-11-2014 at 10:19 AM.
03-11-2014, 10:48 AM
#7
Cruising
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Thanks for the quick responses - I knew I wouldn't be disappointed joining this group.
My total purchase price is for $14,900.00. I did all of my diligence before bidding, and am willing to forfeit the $500.00 if I absolutely must, but would fight it if the engine numbers were not matching as I checked on that before the bid.
After doing some research last night, I did notice the "Stingray" decals are not original. Had no clue about the passenger side mirror - is that legal to drive without one? If so, in time, that will go. I do want to bring this closer if not all the way as possible to a complete 1968 "original" restoration, and I have the funds to do so as long as it doesn't mount up to the cost of a brand new Vette. I also have the time and patience to do so, but I don't have the experience. I'd like to find a local shop or join a local group (in Dallas, TX) to learn and shadow and eventually work with on the more heavy mechanical issues. The main reason I'm finally making this jump to what I would say is my dream car (although a 1967 would be more ideal, it's a bit more pricey) is that I laid down my motorcycle and decided to hang up the helmet for good.
Once again, thanks, gents. I'll let you know what progress I make in my research and checklists!
My total purchase price is for $14,900.00. I did all of my diligence before bidding, and am willing to forfeit the $500.00 if I absolutely must, but would fight it if the engine numbers were not matching as I checked on that before the bid.
After doing some research last night, I did notice the "Stingray" decals are not original. Had no clue about the passenger side mirror - is that legal to drive without one? If so, in time, that will go. I do want to bring this closer if not all the way as possible to a complete 1968 "original" restoration, and I have the funds to do so as long as it doesn't mount up to the cost of a brand new Vette. I also have the time and patience to do so, but I don't have the experience. I'd like to find a local shop or join a local group (in Dallas, TX) to learn and shadow and eventually work with on the more heavy mechanical issues. The main reason I'm finally making this jump to what I would say is my dream car (although a 1967 would be more ideal, it's a bit more pricey) is that I laid down my motorcycle and decided to hang up the helmet for good.
Once again, thanks, gents. I'll let you know what progress I make in my research and checklists!
03-11-2014, 11:30 AM
#9
Melting Slicks
My 2 cents..
Few things, IMHO...
*Good advice all above to heed.
*Nice Corvette and looks great! Pretty good price I would say if my assumptions are correct.
*Assume no major rust, rust would break the good deal for me. Research rust here and online to learn more.
*Assume engine and trans are numbers matching. The other stuff you can change to matching date codes if you desire to ever do so. Engine and trans are only original once except for fraud.
*Ebay protects you and so does Paypal if you did the deposit via Paypal. But I believe that "numbers matching and minimum or no rust" has to be in the listing somewhere in writing so that it is not your word against his.
*I would check Corvette Clubs and NCRS in the state you are going to look at the Corvette and try to pay a Corvette C3 savy person that is close by to go with you and inspect the car. Lets say you had to even pay $500 for somebody to drive 2 hours to go look at it with you. Many retired Corvette nuts would be more than happy to do a check (with no warranty of course) and $500 is very very cheap in the Corvette world view of money, LOL's!
*The key as stated above is to pay a fair price for what it actually is. If you got an original engine and original transmission with decent paint and a lot of odds and ends, not original, like steering wheel, sport mirrors, radio, ect and NO BIG Rust problems, I would say 15 is a good price.
Best of luck to you and if the Corvette checks out, I think you got a great deal. I would not sweat the small items that can be changed to original if you ever want to spend the money as long as you paid a fair price on the front end. Of course if you are looking for a top flight candidate, this might not be it.
*Good advice all above to heed.
*Nice Corvette and looks great! Pretty good price I would say if my assumptions are correct.
*Assume no major rust, rust would break the good deal for me. Research rust here and online to learn more.
*Assume engine and trans are numbers matching. The other stuff you can change to matching date codes if you desire to ever do so. Engine and trans are only original once except for fraud.
*Ebay protects you and so does Paypal if you did the deposit via Paypal. But I believe that "numbers matching and minimum or no rust" has to be in the listing somewhere in writing so that it is not your word against his.
*I would check Corvette Clubs and NCRS in the state you are going to look at the Corvette and try to pay a Corvette C3 savy person that is close by to go with you and inspect the car. Lets say you had to even pay $500 for somebody to drive 2 hours to go look at it with you. Many retired Corvette nuts would be more than happy to do a check (with no warranty of course) and $500 is very very cheap in the Corvette world view of money, LOL's!
*The key as stated above is to pay a fair price for what it actually is. If you got an original engine and original transmission with decent paint and a lot of odds and ends, not original, like steering wheel, sport mirrors, radio, ect and NO BIG Rust problems, I would say 15 is a good price.
Best of luck to you and if the Corvette checks out, I think you got a great deal. I would not sweat the small items that can be changed to original if you ever want to spend the money as long as you paid a fair price on the front end. Of course if you are looking for a top flight candidate, this might not be it.
Last edited by 20mercury; 03-11-2014 at 11:46 AM.
03-11-2014, 11:49 AM
#11
Team Owner
"Pretty IS as pretty DOES."
You MUST check out the function/operation of EVERYTHING that is supposed to work, evaluate the structural integrity of the frame/suspension [rust!], AND thoroughly test the operation of the drivetrain, brakes and steering when doing your inspection. Check the oil and carefully look at the oil on the dipstick for color, smell and for any particulates in the oil (it should be clear). Also check all of the other fluids (P/S, brakes, coolant, etc) for proper level and condition.
It is easy to get caught up in the 'beauty' of the car when you are together with it. That is the "emotional" aspect of a vehicle purchase. Look over it thoroughly for the "cosmetic" aspect of this purchase....THEN get down to the real business of checking out the car. ANYTHING that is missing or that doesn't work quite right will end up costing you money. If it doesn't work now, chances are that there is a significant problem with the car--or the owner would have fixed it first!! The car likely has many more miles on it that the owner is claiming. Replacing the speedometer/odometer is the normal way of masking the mileage. Check for heavy wear on the pedals and carpet/interior wear to get a better read on actual mileage.
Also verify the age of the tires (date codes). If they are more than 5 years old, they don't have much life left and you should get a discount for that fact. They haven't made Uniroyal tires in 30 years...except for aftermarket repops. If they are really that old, you need to get new tires on that car BEFORE you drive it.
Also, discuss with the owner whose insurance is going to cover any damage occuring during your inspection. And check with your agent..before you go to see the car...about whether your insurance will apply if you drive that car.
Check the car's title to see that it is NOT a "Salvage" title and that it is valid and in the name of the owner. If there is a problem with the title on the car, get deposit back, as this fact was not represented in the car's ad.
Ask for experienced C3 folks in the area of the sale to assist you in the check-out process. There should be some Corvette Forum participants that might help you, if you let us know where this sale is being made.
You MUST check out the function/operation of EVERYTHING that is supposed to work, evaluate the structural integrity of the frame/suspension [rust!], AND thoroughly test the operation of the drivetrain, brakes and steering when doing your inspection. Check the oil and carefully look at the oil on the dipstick for color, smell and for any particulates in the oil (it should be clear). Also check all of the other fluids (P/S, brakes, coolant, etc) for proper level and condition.
It is easy to get caught up in the 'beauty' of the car when you are together with it. That is the "emotional" aspect of a vehicle purchase. Look over it thoroughly for the "cosmetic" aspect of this purchase....THEN get down to the real business of checking out the car. ANYTHING that is missing or that doesn't work quite right will end up costing you money. If it doesn't work now, chances are that there is a significant problem with the car--or the owner would have fixed it first!! The car likely has many more miles on it that the owner is claiming. Replacing the speedometer/odometer is the normal way of masking the mileage. Check for heavy wear on the pedals and carpet/interior wear to get a better read on actual mileage.
Also verify the age of the tires (date codes). If they are more than 5 years old, they don't have much life left and you should get a discount for that fact. They haven't made Uniroyal tires in 30 years...except for aftermarket repops. If they are really that old, you need to get new tires on that car BEFORE you drive it.
Also, discuss with the owner whose insurance is going to cover any damage occuring during your inspection. And check with your agent..before you go to see the car...about whether your insurance will apply if you drive that car.
Check the car's title to see that it is NOT a "Salvage" title and that it is valid and in the name of the owner. If there is a problem with the title on the car, get deposit back, as this fact was not represented in the car's ad.
Ask for experienced C3 folks in the area of the sale to assist you in the check-out process. There should be some Corvette Forum participants that might help you, if you let us know where this sale is being made.
Last edited by 7T1vette; 03-11-2014 at 11:56 AM.
03-11-2014, 12:17 PM
#12
Safety Car
It should hit the 'bay, by at least 06/03/2014.
03-11-2014, 03:24 PM
#15
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03-11-2014, 03:35 PM
#16
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Hi TLS,
Now that you've mentioned your plans for this car there are some specific things you'll want to be looking for.
First is the engine and transmission that were in the car when it left St.Louis still in the car? If not, what engine/transmission are presently there and are they at least date and casting number correct for this car.
How much of the rest of the car is still made up of the parts it left St. Louis with? Everything from the wheels and trim rings, to the shocks and springs, to the fan blade and carburetor, to the interior pieces, will need to be checked by someone familiar with 'original' 68 Corvettes OR you MAY spend "more than the cost of a new Corvette".
It comes down to assessing whether this car is a good candidate for a restoration based on originality.
Regards,
Alan
Based on the pictures, the info you've posted, your goal, and the price, this car makes me a little nervous!
Now that you've mentioned your plans for this car there are some specific things you'll want to be looking for.
First is the engine and transmission that were in the car when it left St.Louis still in the car? If not, what engine/transmission are presently there and are they at least date and casting number correct for this car.
How much of the rest of the car is still made up of the parts it left St. Louis with? Everything from the wheels and trim rings, to the shocks and springs, to the fan blade and carburetor, to the interior pieces, will need to be checked by someone familiar with 'original' 68 Corvettes OR you MAY spend "more than the cost of a new Corvette".
It comes down to assessing whether this car is a good candidate for a restoration based on originality.
Regards,
Alan
Based on the pictures, the info you've posted, your goal, and the price, this car makes me a little nervous!
03-11-2014, 03:52 PM
#18
03-11-2014, 04:32 PM
#19
Le Mans Master
Found it,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/327-4-SPEED-CONVERTIBLE-GREAT-CONDITION-/251462414611?item=251462414611&forcerrptr=true&pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3a8c53f113&nma=true&si=SFuzQreOowZxxaQyCQ6N9PQCxdg%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Valve cover, and intake are wrong as well and missing other parts.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/327-4-SPEED-CONVERTIBLE-GREAT-CONDITION-/251462414611?item=251462414611&forcerrptr=true&pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3a8c53f113&nma=true&si=SFuzQreOowZxxaQyCQ6N9PQCxdg%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Valve cover, and intake are wrong as well and missing other parts.
03-11-2014, 04:38 PM
#20
Le Mans Master
Atlanta is only an hour away. See if you can find a Corvette veteran to take a look.
I got in touch with the NCRS chapter that was local and paid to have it inspected. It was worth it.
I got in touch with the NCRS chapter that was local and paid to have it inspected. It was worth it.