290HP GM Crate engine,...opinions???
07-10-2013, 09:13 AM
#41
How much value would maintaining the original L82 engine add to this model down the road?
Sounds like the money will be close to the same weather he goes rebuild or crate. To me it would boil down to do I want a new engine or a rebuilt original. The OP asked about the 290hp crate motor. That will not be much difference in power over the original L82 at 210 "net" HO,...and the 210 was with smog pump, emissions, cat converter and single exhaust .
Unless he upgrades to a ZZ 4 or similar, which would cost a LOT more money, I think he may be better with the rebuild.
Sounds like the money will be close to the same weather he goes rebuild or crate. To me it would boil down to do I want a new engine or a rebuilt original. The OP asked about the 290hp crate motor. That will not be much difference in power over the original L82 at 210 "net" HO,...and the 210 was with smog pump, emissions, cat converter and single exhaust .
Unless he upgrades to a ZZ 4 or similar, which would cost a LOT more money, I think he may be better with the rebuild.
Does anyone have an example of a car sold that was given premium pricing, worth mentioning, for a matching numbers L82?
07-10-2013, 09:13 AM
#42
Le Mans Master
$3,500 to rebuild stock engine?
Do I need to link that $3,500 ZZ4 again?
Do I need to link that $3,500 ZZ4 again?
07-10-2013, 10:35 AM
#43
Le Mans Master
I have a few friends who are running the ZZ3/4 in their vintage cars and after years of use still think that it was the best move they made. Most had built numerous engines over the years and still opted for these. Hard to beat $3500 for a new GM warrantied motor. Many of the other companies selling inexpensive rebuilds are using seasoned blocks and I worry that to keep prices down there has been some poorer quality parts installed.
07-10-2013, 11:08 AM
#44
Cruising
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But the $3,500.00 does not include the installation. As I posted earlier,..they shop will want another $1,500.00 for the intsall + another estimated $1,500.00 to cover teh flywheel surfacing, new clutch, pressure plate, throw out bearing and radiator work.
07-10-2013, 11:34 AM
#45
Melting Slicks
OK,...update on engine thoughts.
I went by a very reputable performance engine builder today. Here is what he told me;
A complete rebuild;
Tear down.
Vat, clean and repaint bloack.
Rebore block .30 over and lightly resurface.
Turn crank to clean up.
Magna flux heads and lightly resurface, ( as long as they check out OK).
New valve guides and seats.
New intake and exhaust valves.
New cam bearings.
New forged pistons.
New pink rods.
New rod bearings.
New main bearings.
New oil pump.
Re-use existing cam and heads as long as they check out to be in good condition, and my existing intake, carb and water pump.
New gaskets and fluids.
24 month / 24,000 mile warranty.
Parts & Labor- $3,500.00
He told me they recommend turning the flywheel, new clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing while it's down. He also suggested flushing and rodding the radiator while it's out.
Total including these additions will be $4,800.00 to $5,000.00.
We also discussed the crate motor route. He said the labor to R&R the crate motor would be $1,500.00 + cost of engine + the other items he suggested.
Lastly,...he said I coud upgrade the heads and cam at my option,...and my dollar. No additional labor with the stock L82 rebuid, some labor cost to change heads and cam on crate motor.
I went by a very reputable performance engine builder today. Here is what he told me;
A complete rebuild;
Tear down.
Vat, clean and repaint bloack.
Rebore block .30 over and lightly resurface.
Turn crank to clean up.
Magna flux heads and lightly resurface, ( as long as they check out OK).
New valve guides and seats.
New intake and exhaust valves.
New cam bearings.
New forged pistons.
New pink rods.
New rod bearings.
New main bearings.
New oil pump.
Re-use existing cam and heads as long as they check out to be in good condition, and my existing intake, carb and water pump.
New gaskets and fluids.
24 month / 24,000 mile warranty.
Parts & Labor- $3,500.00
He told me they recommend turning the flywheel, new clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing while it's down. He also suggested flushing and rodding the radiator while it's out.
Total including these additions will be $4,800.00 to $5,000.00.
We also discussed the crate motor route. He said the labor to R&R the crate motor would be $1,500.00 + cost of engine + the other items he suggested.
Lastly,...he said I coud upgrade the heads and cam at my option,...and my dollar. No additional labor with the stock L82 rebuid, some labor cost to change heads and cam on crate motor.
07-10-2013, 11:40 AM
#46
Le Mans Master
Just something to think about.
07-10-2013, 11:44 AM
#47
Melting Slicks
Pulling a motor and installing another one is no big deal. I'd do that anyday if it kept me from working on anything behind the Corvette dash. Only help I needed was 5 minutes from my cousin after the engine was on the hoist to help "swing" the engine to the side and about 30 minutes with my wife on the install so I could line up the motor mounts.
07-10-2013, 01:15 PM
#48
OK,...update on engine thoughts.
I went by a very reputable performance engine builder today. Here is what he told me;
<snip>
24 month / 24,000 mile warranty.
Parts & Labor- $3,500.00
We also discussed the crate motor route. He said the labor to R&R the crate motor would be $1,500.00 + cost of engine + the other items he suggested.
Lastly,...he said I coud upgrade the heads and cam at my option,...and my dollar. No additional labor with the stock L82 rebuid, some labor cost to change heads and cam on crate motor.
I went by a very reputable performance engine builder today. Here is what he told me;
<snip>
24 month / 24,000 mile warranty.
Parts & Labor- $3,500.00
We also discussed the crate motor route. He said the labor to R&R the crate motor would be $1,500.00 + cost of engine + the other items he suggested.
Lastly,...he said I coud upgrade the heads and cam at my option,...and my dollar. No additional labor with the stock L82 rebuid, some labor cost to change heads and cam on crate motor.
If you're going to be happy with the 290hp crate motor, they're a good buy.
If you want 400hp, it's probably cheaper to buy the better parts the first time.
My buddy ended up buying a 383 stroker from a "guy" on eBay because he really wanted the extra torque and 400hp. It cost him about 3500-4000 for the motor. To rebuild the 350 to make 400hp was going to cost him about the same by the time he put new heads, new cam, new forged pistons, forged rods, etc....
I suggest making a budget, and making a hp "goal" and then reverse engineering it from there. Is this a street cruiser? A drag racer? A road racer? Do you plan on adding nitrous, a blower? Do you want max power at 4000? 7500?
I have concluded that building an engine for a race car is EASIER than a street engine. The rules usually dictate what parts you can/can't use, whereas with a street car, we want a smooth idle, lots of torque, an 8000 rpm redline, 500 horsepower, good gas mileage and all that for $1500. I know I do.
And then there's the collectibility thing. If you want, buy a new motor and keep the old one in your garage for if you ever sell the car. My Vette may or may not have the original motor, so I don't have to worry about that. (It's a 1980 with an L48, not exactly a car that has original engine cachet.)
07-10-2013, 06:30 PM
#49
Burning Brakes
Hard to say for sure but recent history suggests that the L82 powered Corvettes get no real premium. Lots of 'em were built and the idea of this engine vs the base motor available in the same year as a performance upgrade is a bit of JOKE......both engines were so WEAK that it's very hard to imagine buyers willing to "pay up" as they do now for the LT-1 or Big Block cars from the earlier years.
Does anyone have an example of a car sold that was given premium pricing, worth mentioning, for a matching numbers L82?
Does anyone have an example of a car sold that was given premium pricing, worth mentioning, for a matching numbers L82?
As for the horsepower,....a 1972 Maximum small block horse power was 255. The 1976 L82 was rated at 210 NET horse power. That was with smog equipment, catalyst converter and single exhaust.
Most all L82's today have had all the smog equipment removed and true dual exhaust added w/o cat converters. That should pull the L 82 up to around 245 hp.
So, they really are fairly rare and the HP argument is not as big a deal as often discussed.
07-10-2013, 07:25 PM
#50
Le Mans Master
You asked...
Sorry, I cannot in good conscience recommend a NOM engine (crate or otherwise) for a Corvette application that has less HP than my aging DD ('96 STS). JMO
07-11-2013, 09:10 AM
#52
Actually , there was only a little over 5,700 L82's built out of the 47,000 total Corvettes built in 1976,....so they really are kind of rare.
As for the horsepower,....a 1972 Maximum small block horse power was 255. The 1976 L82 was rated at 210 NET horse power. That was with smog equipment, catalyst converter and single exhaust.
Most all L82's today have had all the smog equipment removed and true dual exhaust added w/o cat converters. That should pull the L 82 up to around 245 hp.
So, they really are fairly rare and the HP argument is not as big a deal as often discussed.
As for the horsepower,....a 1972 Maximum small block horse power was 255. The 1976 L82 was rated at 210 NET horse power. That was with smog equipment, catalyst converter and single exhaust.
Most all L82's today have had all the smog equipment removed and true dual exhaust added w/o cat converters. That should pull the L 82 up to around 245 hp.
So, they really are fairly rare and the HP argument is not as big a deal as often discussed.
These cars get more value out of the right transmission than they do a correct motor. A 4 speed car is somewhat unusual in the later versions of C3....... people will pay a little more for those cars.
07-11-2013, 10:02 AM
#53
Race Director
In the end though........hey, remember I own one too......rubber bumper Corvettes are drivers......."rare"? Hardly, lots were built. None have any real performance in stock trim. It's just my opinion of course but none have the "WOW!" factor that make 'em worth worrying about in terms of keeping things all original. I accept your numbers and stats as fact and still I wouldn't give you a nickel more for any L82 Corvette vs an L48. For me? I'd pay more for the car in better condition. Both motors are too weak to live with and neither rare enough or in demand enough to hurt the value of a car that came with one when it's GONE. Any mid-late 70s car would be more desirable for me with something along the lines of a ZZ4 or 383.
These cars get more value out of the right transmission than they do a correct motor. A 4 speed car is somewhat unusual in the later versions of C3....... people will pay a little more for those cars.
These cars get more value out of the right transmission than they do a correct motor. A 4 speed car is somewhat unusual in the later versions of C3....... people will pay a little more for those cars.
My '74 is a special one year only car.....
The 1974 model was only built in '74.....
07-11-2013, 10:36 AM
#55
Le Mans Master
07-11-2013, 10:44 AM
#56
Burning Brakes
07-11-2013, 05:08 PM
#57
I have got to take mine to the track. I have no idea what they did to the motor, but I'm pretty sure the stock L48 wouldn't get rubber on the 1-2 upshift, and I'm not even powershifting it. I don't think it's as fast as my Trans Am, but maybe a 14 flat in the quarter...
(the TA is an 01 WS6 that runs 13.10 on the motor, 12.18 on a 100 shot... only mods were an intake lid and drag radials.)
07-11-2013, 07:19 PM
#58
Le Mans Master
Add the extra pedal. If you have the stock rear end ratio, installing a Richmond 5 speed, tko500 or rs500 will have you shredding tires everywhere
07-12-2013, 12:03 AM
#59
Team Owner
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Interesting, I thought the GM Performance Parts catalog engines were rated at net horsepower. I have a ZZ4 hot cam engine in my 2800 pound 68. Seems pretty peppy. I forget, it's either 395 HP or 405 HP.
07-12-2013, 01:49 AM
#60
If this is any consolation, I believe the 290 HP can run on regular 87 octane. I suspect that is due to the lower compression.
I personally feel with the configuration, original valve cover bolt pattern, mounting holes in the heads for all original accessories it is a good bang for the buck for a quality replacement engine.
I personally feel with the configuration, original valve cover bolt pattern, mounting holes in the heads for all original accessories it is a good bang for the buck for a quality replacement engine.