Does anyone else think the cars these days are way too fast for inexperienced driver?
08-04-2012, 10:33 AM
#81
Melting Slicks
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I don't see much of a difference, just more people and more avenues of reporting. I have visited old junk yards and see plenty of those old cars in there.
example: ......my friends Dad's car....he has a 'Cuda back in the day with a 440, six pack, stick and .455 gears could never line race on the street (without ending up in the ditch).......he could roll race all day.....but off the line the thing was in each ditch or kissing the other contender.....................roads, tires, traction control, steering, suspension, etc. have come a long way to keeping a car going straight. So the more powerful the average car is, the surrounding circumstance have also improved.
....now distractions on the other hand; ego, smart phones, GPS, etc. come into play.......but let's face it, I've seen everything driving to work (90 mile round trip): road rage, shaving, make-up, reading a book, newspaper, picking their nose, talking on the phone, etc. .....and many of them at the same time.
If a person is going to be stupid, distracted or negligent....the car's ability is just that....an ability that can be used for good or bad. Kind of like the moto "a gun doesn't kill people, people kill people." Put all the safety devices on the gun you want.....a knife doesn't have any.
example: ......my friends Dad's car....he has a 'Cuda back in the day with a 440, six pack, stick and .455 gears could never line race on the street (without ending up in the ditch).......he could roll race all day.....but off the line the thing was in each ditch or kissing the other contender.....................roads, tires, traction control, steering, suspension, etc. have come a long way to keeping a car going straight. So the more powerful the average car is, the surrounding circumstance have also improved.
....now distractions on the other hand; ego, smart phones, GPS, etc. come into play.......but let's face it, I've seen everything driving to work (90 mile round trip): road rage, shaving, make-up, reading a book, newspaper, picking their nose, talking on the phone, etc. .....and many of them at the same time.
If a person is going to be stupid, distracted or negligent....the car's ability is just that....an ability that can be used for good or bad. Kind of like the moto "a gun doesn't kill people, people kill people." Put all the safety devices on the gun you want.....a knife doesn't have any.
08-04-2012, 04:44 PM
#82
Burning Brakes
Yes for the most part they are too fast for most people. The big problem is getting people to say and act like they don't know how to handle the power, most all say I can handle it but you can't!!!! Another problem to some extent is things like traction control, people go see I can handle this and then turn it off and they crash!! Yes driver training would be good for all no matter what kind of car it is. Think about it, what kind of driver training do we really have?
08-04-2012, 05:33 PM
#83
i worked with a guy who was a profesional educated individual.one of the company vehicles always had a dead battery the day he was driving it, i had to drag out the jumper cables and get it running for him. after 5 or 6 times if this one morning i walked out with him.he jumped in and started cranking......did not let off until the battery was dead.this particular vehicle was an older one that had a carburator.he had never driven anything that had one,didn't know you had to pump the accelerator a few times.
how many people are driving around today that have never driven a car that did not have abs or traction control. they have no idea what it feels like to lock up the brakes and learn how not to do that when it counts.same with traction control,you need to get sideways a few times to appreciate the feeling and what to do about correcting it.
i had to take a driving course when i worked for one of the big three,i learned a lot but the biggest thing i learned was my own limitations,most people came away from the experience thinking they were the second coming of mario andretti, i came away with a great respect for what a car can do and an even greater respect for people that can really drive well.
you cannot teach experience and you cannot teach respect, as i said before i don't think mandatory traing is the answer,some people would learn but the majority i'm afraid would think they just graduated from superman school.
how many people are driving around today that have never driven a car that did not have abs or traction control. they have no idea what it feels like to lock up the brakes and learn how not to do that when it counts.same with traction control,you need to get sideways a few times to appreciate the feeling and what to do about correcting it.
i had to take a driving course when i worked for one of the big three,i learned a lot but the biggest thing i learned was my own limitations,most people came away from the experience thinking they were the second coming of mario andretti, i came away with a great respect for what a car can do and an even greater respect for people that can really drive well.
you cannot teach experience and you cannot teach respect, as i said before i don't think mandatory traing is the answer,some people would learn but the majority i'm afraid would think they just graduated from superman school.
08-04-2012, 05:52 PM
#84
Burning Brakes
i worked with a guy who was a profesional educated individual.one of the company vehicles always had a dead battery the day he was driving it, i had to drag out the jumper cables and get it running for him. after 5 or 6 times if this one morning i walked out with him.he jumped in and started cranking......did not let off until the battery was dead.this particular vehicle was an older one that had a carburator.he had never driven anything that had one,didn't know you had to pump the accelerator a few times.
how many people are driving around today that have never driven a car that did not have abs or traction control. they have no idea what it feels like to lock up the brakes and learn how not to do that when it counts.same with traction control,you need to get sideways a few times to appreciate the feeling and what to do about correcting it.
i had to take a driving course when i worked for one of the big three,i learned a lot but the biggest thing i learned was my own limitations,most people came away from the experience thinking they were the second coming of mario andretti, i came away with a great respect for what a car can do and an even greater respect for people that can really drive well.
you cannot teach experience and you cannot teach respect, as i said before i don't think mandatory traing is the answer,some people would learn but the majority i'm afraid would think they just graduated from superman school.
how many people are driving around today that have never driven a car that did not have abs or traction control. they have no idea what it feels like to lock up the brakes and learn how not to do that when it counts.same with traction control,you need to get sideways a few times to appreciate the feeling and what to do about correcting it.
i had to take a driving course when i worked for one of the big three,i learned a lot but the biggest thing i learned was my own limitations,most people came away from the experience thinking they were the second coming of mario andretti, i came away with a great respect for what a car can do and an even greater respect for people that can really drive well.
you cannot teach experience and you cannot teach respect, as i said before i don't think mandatory traing is the answer,some people would learn but the majority i'm afraid would think they just graduated from superman school.
I may agree that training is not the answer completely. One big problem is that the real bad ones would not go to training cause they think they already know and are good enough to do the training! So mandatory training would be by far better IMHO. You know the ones for the most part that will go to training on their own are much more honest to them selves right off the top as they are seeking out help in learning.
08-05-2012, 02:03 PM
#85
Race Director
Thread Starter
I don't see much of a difference, just more people and more avenues of reporting. I have visited old junk yards and see plenty of those old cars in there.
example: ......my friends Dad's car....he has a 'Cuda back in the day with a 440, six pack, stick and .455 gears could never line race on the street (without ending up in the ditch).......he could roll race all day.....but off the line the thing was in each ditch or kissing the other contender.....................roads, tires, traction control, steering, suspension, etc. have come a long way to keeping a car going straight. So the more powerful the average car is, the surrounding circumstance have also improved.
....now distractions on the other hand; ego, smart phones, GPS, etc. come into play.......but let's face it, I've seen everything driving to work (90 mile round trip): road rage, shaving, make-up, reading a book, newspaper, picking their nose, talking on the phone, etc. .....and many of them at the same time.
If a person is going to be stupid, distracted or negligent....the car's ability is just that....an ability that can be used for good or bad. Kind of like the moto "a gun doesn't kill people, people kill people." Put all the safety devices on the gun you want.....a knife doesn't have any.
example: ......my friends Dad's car....he has a 'Cuda back in the day with a 440, six pack, stick and .455 gears could never line race on the street (without ending up in the ditch).......he could roll race all day.....but off the line the thing was in each ditch or kissing the other contender.....................roads, tires, traction control, steering, suspension, etc. have come a long way to keeping a car going straight. So the more powerful the average car is, the surrounding circumstance have also improved.
....now distractions on the other hand; ego, smart phones, GPS, etc. come into play.......but let's face it, I've seen everything driving to work (90 mile round trip): road rage, shaving, make-up, reading a book, newspaper, picking their nose, talking on the phone, etc. .....and many of them at the same time.
If a person is going to be stupid, distracted or negligent....the car's ability is just that....an ability that can be used for good or bad. Kind of like the moto "a gun doesn't kill people, people kill people." Put all the safety devices on the gun you want.....a knife doesn't have any.
08-05-2012, 03:05 PM
#86
Race Director
Thread Starter
Couple of things where some are missing the point. It was just a question and wanted to hear some opinions yea or nay on the subject. In no way do I want governments imposing laws against these vehicles that would really make me mad.
At this time with no experience and no motorcycle license I can get a beginners license and there is no law that prevents me from going in and and buying an R1 as my first bike and driving it around alone up here in Canada, I believe it has to be in daylight
hours and there are a few other restrictions but none preventing from buying it and driving it.
Common sense tells me not too because it is not good for my back, how ever if I did, I would certainly respect the power just like I did with the first bike I ever drove which was a Kawasaki 900 with an 1150 big bore kit in it and 4 into one pipes ( I had a license then but has expired more than 30 years now because I liked fast cars much better ).
It was brother's bike and he had just bought a new Suzuki and wanted someone to ride with. Driving around all over the place that day and never had a problem he would lead me with hand jesters. He has had bikes all his life and there were no problems with me driving this insane bike at the time ( 70's ) because I never once cracked the throttle. I was young but still had the presence of mind not crack it wide open or I would be in trouble.
This I believe to be the problem, not stupidity, nose picking or texting but not knowing how much power you can unleash buy putting your foot the the floor on some of these new cars.
And then not knowing what to do if something goes wrong, this is where experience and common sense are needed not a platinum card for a down payment.
You have to work your way up the ladder, as said before civilian track rules are far more stringent than gov. laws. You watch a formula 1 race, do you think any one of these guys just jumped into the car as their first race car ? No they are driving go-carts at 100mph first and earning a shot at seat time in these cars.
So in closing, I am not advocating any government interference in what is going on with the HP in these cars. I love it, all I am saying is there's a big big difference between a 200HP commuter car to the power of the Z06 let alone the ZR1. As a matter of fact I know a guy my age that is scared to put his foot into his new Vette, I told him he was smart and go easy until you get used to the power and this particular guy has owned Vettes all his life, at least 10-15 I know of.
At this time with no experience and no motorcycle license I can get a beginners license and there is no law that prevents me from going in and and buying an R1 as my first bike and driving it around alone up here in Canada, I believe it has to be in daylight
hours and there are a few other restrictions but none preventing from buying it and driving it.
Common sense tells me not too because it is not good for my back
, how ever if I did, I would certainly respect the power just like I did with the first bike I ever drove which was a Kawasaki 900 with an 1150 big bore kit in it and 4 into one pipes ( I had a license then but has expired more than 30 years now because I liked fast cars much better ). It was brother's bike and he had just bought a new Suzuki and wanted someone to ride with. Driving around all over the place that day and never had a problem he would lead me with hand jesters. He has had bikes all his life and there were no problems with me driving this insane bike at the time ( 70's ) because I never once cracked the throttle. I was young but still had the presence of mind not crack it wide open or I would be in trouble.
This I believe to be the problem, not stupidity, nose picking or texting but not knowing how much power you can unleash buy putting your foot the the floor on some of these new cars.
And then not knowing what to do if something goes wrong, this is where experience and common sense are needed not a platinum card for a down payment.
You have to work your way up the ladder, as said before civilian track rules are far more stringent than gov. laws. You watch a formula 1 race, do you think any one of these guys just jumped into the car as their first race car ? No they are driving go-carts at 100mph first and earning a shot at seat time in these cars.
So in closing, I am not advocating any government interference in what is going on with the HP in these cars. I love it, all I am saying is there's a big big difference between a 200HP commuter car to the power of the Z06 let alone the ZR1. As a matter of fact I know a guy my age that is scared to put his foot into his new Vette, I told him he was smart and go easy until you get used to the power and this particular guy has owned Vettes all his life, at least 10-15 I know of.
Last edited by MotorHead; 08-05-2012 at 03:07 PM.
08-06-2012, 10:52 AM
#87
maybe the answer is some sort of traning,but something i think would be better is for people to be able to have a place once a month or every six months to get stupid with their cars without the fear of having a swat team come down on them. i big parking lot or an airport runway, who knows what it would be. if it was fun and legal i think everyone from ricers to supercar owners would have an oportunity to understand the kind of horsepower they are trying to tame.and maybe resist the urge to get crazy in traffic.
08-09-2012, 02:35 PM
#89
Le Mans Master
1. I'm pretty sure if you buy a ZR1 they GIVE you the Ron Fellows school. Right?
2. Second... kids and idiot adults are getting killed today by cars of all types and all horsepower just like back in the day. A 12 year old Subaru WRX made, what, 240 hp? Still a fast car. Drive one. But the WRX, 350Z, Evo set is getting killed no more often than a carload of kids in an Altima armed with cell phones. If anything those young car-loving kids as drivers at least care about cars and are MUCH more likely to see them as applied physics than anyone else in their age bracket.
Distracted driving and a lack of car control kill inexperienced drivers just like they did 10, 20, 30, 60 years ago. Since the model T. Horsepower is RARELY a factor. Yes, I said it.
The same dumb behavior in a 14 second '70 Corvette is going to get you hurt worse than the same dumb behavior in a 14 second old WRX with ABS, all wheel drive, traction control, and airbags. Do you part and teach your kids to drive them both with the same moderation and hope they do it when you aren't around. Some will and some will not and the world will keep turning.
3. I like homemade pickles, a good Reuben, and Bulleitt Rye with extra bitters.
2. Second... kids and idiot adults are getting killed today by cars of all types and all horsepower just like back in the day. A 12 year old Subaru WRX made, what, 240 hp? Still a fast car. Drive one. But the WRX, 350Z, Evo set is getting killed no more often than a carload of kids in an Altima armed with cell phones. If anything those young car-loving kids as drivers at least care about cars and are MUCH more likely to see them as applied physics than anyone else in their age bracket.
Distracted driving and a lack of car control kill inexperienced drivers just like they did 10, 20, 30, 60 years ago. Since the model T. Horsepower is RARELY a factor. Yes, I said it.
The same dumb behavior in a 14 second '70 Corvette is going to get you hurt worse than the same dumb behavior in a 14 second old WRX with ABS, all wheel drive, traction control, and airbags. Do you part and teach your kids to drive them both with the same moderation and hope they do it when you aren't around. Some will and some will not and the world will keep turning.
3. I like homemade pickles, a good Reuben, and Bulleitt Rye with extra bitters.
Last edited by ChattanoogaJSB; 08-09-2012 at 02:38 PM.
08-09-2012, 04:10 PM
#90
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They do offer the driver's course for Z06 and ZR1 buyers as Chatanooga said. It's a great idea. I have a C6 Z06 and it is a handful. It will continue to loose traction right into 3rd gear at around 100 mph if you keep your foot into it or the tires are cold. I also have an old big block. Really no comparison but either can get you into trouble if you don't use your head and have a healthy respect for them.
They sure are fun though
They sure are fun though