shrekviper

Bottom line…I’m trying to figure out how much of my car is real. I haven’t dropped the tank to check for a build sheet (not too hopeful though).

Is it a factory auto or a manual? 1969 vert, NOM 454, currently has a 4-speed M20, I guess. I read a recent post about auto vs. manual carpet fitting and someone brought up the “bump” in the passenger side footwell. Well, I was underneath the car today to figure out why I only have 2nd and Reverse and noticed, what looks to me, the underside of a possible “auto bump” (1st pic).



That got me thinking. Was it from the factory or did someone do that sometime in the last 41 years? The trans crossmember is a one piece, but I can’t tell if it’s the original member or if it was put in later. Autos had a removable crossmember, right? Well, couldn’t figure out the shifting issue, so I went back topside and started taking apart the center console…oh, goody. Well, here’s what the shifter looks like from the top (2nd pic, previous title WAS from TN).



I then saw the boot/grommet forward of the shifter (3rd pic) and thought, CRAP, it was, at one time, at least an auto (based on the pic from the corvette shop manual (4th pic).




Any ideas? Other than the build sheet, of course (still has a full tank). Factory manual or auto? It seems like every layer I dig down, or repair I find something that doesn’t make sense. The seller, yes…dealer, said it had a “numbers matching M20 4 speed manual transmission.” – their ad. The 5th pic is the stamp on the back of the trans. I thought the pic would have been better, so I can’t quite read the last 2-3 nubmers. My VIN is 9S728144. If it’s a match, I guess that means someone took it out, put in an auto, then later, put the manual back…?



Last question…can anyone help me figure out why my heat, vent, or A/C doesn’t work (6th pic)…thanks again dealer. One last quote from the dealer. “extremely highly optioned car that is ready to show!”…only a freak show right now…



Also, still only 2nd and Reverse…

GD70

Looks like an auto. Is the trans cross member bolted or welded the the frame? Bolted was for auto.
Glenn

Faster Rat

The transmission does appear to be "matching numbers" but that does not mean it was original to the car. That VIN derivative stamped in the case could have been added to an off the shelf M20. Therein lies the falacy of the mis-used and misunderstood phrase "matching numbers."

From what you have told us and shown pictures, it appears the car was originally built with an automatic. Being you have a NOM 454, what does it matter? Hopefully you paid an appropriate amount for the car and if so, just enjoy your BB 4 speed.

SmokedTires

GD70

I love the Guiness plate! Maybe your car was an export model, reimported back to the states!! LOL! At least we know they were drinking great beer!
Glenn

BBCorv70

Sounds like you're curious as to whether it was originally a 4 speed or automatic. Wondering if the #s on the transmission match? As Faster Rat says, with a NOM 454 it doesn't really matter. Not collectable. It may be a great car but not for a collector. I'd say enjoy it....

shrekviper

I completely agree and I did not pay #s matching price, though it was a BB/vert price and I was a newbie, so it wasn't a bargain.

It's been sitting in storage for the past 9 mo. while I was overseas and I'm now just trying to uncover the "truth" behind the car. Also, I'm now wondering if the black vert manual carpet I got from Willcox 6 mo. ago will fit ok, will it take a ton of fitting, or if they'll be able to exchange.

I intend on fixing/repairing/restoring this car to what I want, but I'd like to be able to discuss what's different and why.

shrekviper

It's welded. That's one reason I'm confused. I'm not knowledgable enough to recognize an original cross member weld and I didn't take any pics of it. I'm too lazy to go back under right now.

BBCorv70

Out of curiousity, does the frame VIN match the car? You should be able to read the one behind the left rear wheel. On the top surface of the frame below the body. You may need a mirror and flashlight. (DMV managed to read mine years ago...) Wondering if there's a chance the frame was swapped... I don't know enough about the automatic cross member to say whether it was necessary to weld one in. Given a choice, I wish mine were bolted in....

shrekviper

When I get a chance I'll take some pics of the cross member (you can see a little of it in pic 1) and a better pic of the trans stamp. I've never looked to find the VIN on the frame to see. Maybe a frame swap (to a manual) would explain the confusion.

Anyone have pictures of their frame VIN or the location?

Alex/plus

When you get through investigating the old Vette, fix and/or change the stuff you don't like and then get it on the street and enjoy the h**L out of it.
It looks like a very nice car. Just be glad you can afford a car like that and don't worry about the value, just insure it for the dollar value of it's worth and enjoy. Intertainment cost money and these old C3 Vettes are intertainment supreme.
Personally, I don't need a passenger or radio when I'm driving my old Vette............"LOVE IT"

BBCorv70

thatcorvetteguy

With a welded cross member and a stamped trans? Maybe someone changed it to a auto then back to a 4 speed after the 427 was blown up?

shrekviper

That's my initial guess/hope, but I thought the "bump" and shifter boot/grommet looked too "factory". I wouldn't think someone would do that level of work on the car just to go back to a manual. I'll see if I can find a VIN on the frame to close that chapter.

shrekviper

I'm all about driving it too. I just need to get it safe and more reliable. I'm going to make it what i want and enjoy it. I'm definitely not in this for the money...

thatcorvetteguy

I think all 69's had the four speed hole its just that the factory placed a cover over the four speed hole and then made a new hole for the auto cable.

shrekviper

I don't think the factory covered the hole with a plastic Tennessee sign though. It would make more sense that it was an automatic (based on the boot/grommet) and later someone cut a hole for the 4-speed.

I'll have to walk away for a few days otherwise, I'll be elbow deep in a frame-off before I can stop myself. I think everyone else on this forum has already posted the dangers of "while-I'm-at-it-itis".

bobbarry

Maybe an automatic body, and a manual chassis?

shrekviper

That's my #1 guess right now.

Anyone tried to fit manual carpet in an auto body? Is it a pain (any more than usual)?

BBCorv70

Maybe check the RPO for automatic transmission in the AIM? That should tell you if a cover was added and what other modifications were necessary.