Why do most muscle car guys dislike the corvette!!
11-26-2008, 09:40 AM
#121
Le Mans Master
Some idle ramblings on this general topic.
I've belonged to vintage Mustang clubs, Camaro clubs and mixed breed cruising clubs, but, thus far, I've declined joining a Corvette Club. The ones I've been exposed to seem to be populated by guys with big egos and big wallets who really aren't car guys, and their one-time trophy wives who insist on dressing like women 20 years their junior. I'm no kid, but there is only so much varicose veins and cellulite a guy can tolerate. A buddy of mine who is the president of our Mustang club also owns a C5 and belongs to a Vette group. He invited me to one of their meetings and I was turned off by the attitudes I saw there. I now attend Vette shows with three other guys who are not club affiliated. We are made up of a tripple black C5 vert, a beautiful 85 C4, my BB 69 C3 and a 62 C1 roadster. We have a ball together, but it is amazing to watch the partiality that the various host clubs display toward their own memebers and the interpersonal competition between people in the same show class. Nothing like that in the Mustang world.
A muscle car is a mid-sized sedan with a big azzed engine. They came that way from the factory and that was what drove me away from street racing back in the mid 60s. It was fun to line up agianst a guy with a 55 Chevy that he had built into a street racer, but where was the challenge of getting it on with a 64 426 wedge that some guy had just bought at the Plymouth dealership two days ago? There was no longer any incentive to build your own.
The Camaro, Firebird, Mustang, Cougar, Barracuda, Challanger, FMX, etc. were not muscle cars in the truest sense. They were pony cars, named for the originator of the type, Mustang. Certainly a big block pony car was every bit as formidable as a muscle car, but it really wasn't considered a muscle car back then. In fact, the original Mustangs (289 V8s) were kind of a joke on the street. BTW, the 428 CJ and SCJ Mustangs were no laughing matter.
While some folks aren't so catholic about the definition of a muscle car, I recall a local cruising group that held a Muscle Car Night once a month that objected to the newer Camaros and Firebirds attending because they weren't really muscle cars. If any of you have ridden in an LS1 powered Camaro/Firebird, you realize it's pretty hard to deny that they are muscular in their performance. In fact, they are stronger performers than most of the true muscle cars back in the day. I own a 2000 Z28 with 108K miles that I would be willing to run against any stock vintage muscle car. The numbers this little coupe with an automatic tranny and 2.73 gears has actually posted at the drag strip are superior to just about anything but the stoutest of the 60s-70s beasts.
So, in conclusion, Chevelle SSs are muscle cars, Camaros are pony cars and Corvettes are sportscars. And old ladies aught to lower their hemlines.
I think that's offended enough people.
I've belonged to vintage Mustang clubs, Camaro clubs and mixed breed cruising clubs, but, thus far, I've declined joining a Corvette Club. The ones I've been exposed to seem to be populated by guys with big egos and big wallets who really aren't car guys, and their one-time trophy wives who insist on dressing like women 20 years their junior. I'm no kid, but there is only so much varicose veins and cellulite a guy can tolerate. A buddy of mine who is the president of our Mustang club also owns a C5 and belongs to a Vette group. He invited me to one of their meetings and I was turned off by the attitudes I saw there. I now attend Vette shows with three other guys who are not club affiliated. We are made up of a tripple black C5 vert, a beautiful 85 C4, my BB 69 C3 and a 62 C1 roadster. We have a ball together, but it is amazing to watch the partiality that the various host clubs display toward their own memebers and the interpersonal competition between people in the same show class. Nothing like that in the Mustang world.
A muscle car is a mid-sized sedan with a big azzed engine. They came that way from the factory and that was what drove me away from street racing back in the mid 60s. It was fun to line up agianst a guy with a 55 Chevy that he had built into a street racer, but where was the challenge of getting it on with a 64 426 wedge that some guy had just bought at the Plymouth dealership two days ago? There was no longer any incentive to build your own.
The Camaro, Firebird, Mustang, Cougar, Barracuda, Challanger, FMX, etc. were not muscle cars in the truest sense. They were pony cars, named for the originator of the type, Mustang. Certainly a big block pony car was every bit as formidable as a muscle car, but it really wasn't considered a muscle car back then. In fact, the original Mustangs (289 V8s) were kind of a joke on the street. BTW, the 428 CJ and SCJ Mustangs were no laughing matter.
While some folks aren't so catholic about the definition of a muscle car, I recall a local cruising group that held a Muscle Car Night once a month that objected to the newer Camaros and Firebirds attending because they weren't really muscle cars. If any of you have ridden in an LS1 powered Camaro/Firebird, you realize it's pretty hard to deny that they are muscular in their performance. In fact, they are stronger performers than most of the true muscle cars back in the day. I own a 2000 Z28 with 108K miles that I would be willing to run against any stock vintage muscle car. The numbers this little coupe with an automatic tranny and 2.73 gears has actually posted at the drag strip are superior to just about anything but the stoutest of the 60s-70s beasts.
So, in conclusion, Chevelle SSs are muscle cars, Camaros are pony cars and Corvettes are sportscars. And old ladies aught to lower their hemlines.
I think that's offended enough people.
11-26-2008, 03:14 PM
#122
Melting Slicks
11-27-2008, 10:12 PM
#125
Heel & Toe
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Interesting thread. A few comments:
Vettes as Muscle: My first experience in a Vette was when a neighbor who had a tripower '67 gave me a ride in his new '70 454 coupe. I asked him how it ran and he told me it had "a little miss at about 130". It may have been marketed as a sports car but to me that was Muscle!
Muscle Machines: The Hemmings magazine does not seem to recognize the Corvette as a muscle machine but the last few years C3 Corvettes have won the FAST (factory appearing stock tire) competitions. ????
Lastly Arrogance: Just sold a '55 "driver" and was always surprised that I would get thumbs up or the wave from most older Chevys as well as some Mustangs, Mercedes, etc. but a Mid Year Vette would come right past me at a light and not acknowledge me. On the other hand, on the day a friend bought a '67 BB with side pipes he pulled into my driveway and tossed me the keys. There are many different kinds of people that drive Corvettes!
Vettes as Muscle: My first experience in a Vette was when a neighbor who had a tripower '67 gave me a ride in his new '70 454 coupe. I asked him how it ran and he told me it had "a little miss at about 130". It may have been marketed as a sports car but to me that was Muscle!
Muscle Machines: The Hemmings magazine does not seem to recognize the Corvette as a muscle machine but the last few years C3 Corvettes have won the FAST (factory appearing stock tire) competitions. ????
Lastly Arrogance: Just sold a '55 "driver" and was always surprised that I would get thumbs up or the wave from most older Chevys as well as some Mustangs, Mercedes, etc. but a Mid Year Vette would come right past me at a light and not acknowledge me. On the other hand, on the day a friend bought a '67 BB with side pipes he pulled into my driveway and tossed me the keys. There are many different kinds of people that drive Corvettes!
11-28-2008, 09:39 AM
#126
Burning Brakes
WOW !!......many, many points well taken. There definitely is a stigma attached to owning a corvette. I do find it very amusing when someone says to me "I see who's making the big money" from someone who owns a $30k to $50K SUV, pick-up, or luxury car. I owned 4 Camaro's and loved them before I got a C5 because it was the first Vette to fit me comfortably cause of my height (6'3").
At the end of the day we're all just motor-heads !!! no matter what hot-rod, muscle car, sports car we drive !
At the end of the day we're all just motor-heads !!! no matter what hot-rod, muscle car, sports car we drive !
11-28-2008, 09:43 AM
#127
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I think there's something to be said about the drivers of the newer gen. Corvettes and those of us who drive the older ones. With us... well with me... it's somewhat of a love affair with the Corvette ... exclusively. Don't ge me wrong... I love all of the hotrods from the past as well as some cars today. But for me, my favorite is the C3 Corvette... hands down.
With seemingly the majority of new gen. Corvette drivers, they seem for the most part to drive it because it's a hot car and to them there's no difference between it and any other hot car... like the Viper or maybe a Porsche or other sports cars. For this reason I believe the new gen. drivers just don't get into the "wave". They don't see an older Corvette as kinship... they just see an old friggin' car.
Just my opinion.
With seemingly the majority of new gen. Corvette drivers, they seem for the most part to drive it because it's a hot car and to them there's no difference between it and any other hot car... like the Viper or maybe a Porsche or other sports cars. For this reason I believe the new gen. drivers just don't get into the "wave". They don't see an older Corvette as kinship... they just see an old friggin' car.
Just my opinion.
11-28-2008, 01:20 PM
#128
Le Mans Master
I sold my JL-8 X-ram 69 RS Z/28 a few years back and kept my LT-1 Vette even though the Vette rates no where near what a Z/28 does on the "Barret Jackson scale". I would take my Vette over the Z any day (I don't need rear seats to carry kids in so that is the only factor that I can see where the Z exceeds the Vette in performance.) It is common knowledge that Vettes don't "hook-up" at the drags like a goood solid axel muscle car can so those L-88 Vette guys are cheating somehow
I must know their secret because my LT-1 has run low 12 second 1/4 miles with sticky tires on it and many people scratch their heads at that when I tell them it is a 355 cu/in motor in the engine bay. Muscle cars are FAR EASIER cars to work on than my Vette, I will give them their due in that respect (especially in the windshield wiper area.)
I must know their secret because my LT-1 has run low 12 second 1/4 miles with sticky tires on it and many people scratch their heads at that when I tell them it is a 355 cu/in motor in the engine bay. Muscle cars are FAR EASIER cars to work on than my Vette, I will give them their due in that respect (especially in the windshield wiper area.)
11-28-2008, 04:53 PM
#129
Le Mans Master
I never even heard of a FOREIGN car being refered to as a pony car. That must be a term that you yourself used. I think we were talking about AMERICAN cars here.
:toetap :
11-28-2008, 06:11 PM
#130
Melting Slicks
Maybe I missed this comment, but I remember back in the day guys I knew that were heavy into making and restoring muscle cars, but didn't get into corvettes, sometimes would make comments that they were not comfortable working with fiberglass. They considered it exotic ...beyond their scope of repair. In fact, when I talk to car guys about my vette even to this day, one of the first things that comes up are comments about how hard fiberglass is to work with. So, I think this might be another factor why many guys that work on steel-bodied cars separate themselves from plastic-bodied cars.
Mark G
Mark G
11-28-2008, 07:20 PM
#131
Burning Brakes
I would give the NCRS folks another chance. I think there is one in every crowd but I think there are many more in their ranks who would help with just about anything. They have saved me countless times with problems I was having. I came to the conclusion that there was not one thing that could happen to a Vette that they had not seen before or couldn't solve.
I do agree with some of the posters though in that some of the biggest snobbery is not between Detroit iron and Vettes, but between the generations of corvettes. C1-C6
11-28-2008, 10:23 PM
#134
Le Mans Master
Must be a generational gap misunderstanding here. I thought this particular point was about pony cars, ( Camaro, Firebird, Mustang etc. ) not muscle , ( GTO, Chevelle SS, Road Runners, 442's, etc. ) And before someone complains that Z28's were muscle cars and that I included camaros with pony cars, I am talking about the body style and size being considered a pony car. I'm not saying there weren't high performance pony cars. Another example was the Firebird 400. For those of you that don't remember, most pony cars in their day were considered to be just cheap, plain jane grocery getters that were bought as a second car for the wife. It was only later that guys started hotrodding them.
11-29-2008, 12:14 AM
#135
Racer
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Most Muscle Guys.. Think Corvette's are weak because of the rear IRS. and are outta their price range.
However alot of Muscle guys are afraid of racing a Vette because of it's traction of the line like a Bunny rabbit, and the perception of them being "lightweights" with big motors.
Corvette is a Muscle car with the added feature of Standard 4wheel discs and IRS, and can handle respectfully compared to others.. Not to mention it's high speed stability.
No other Muscle Machine was built like the Corvette, and this ideology of trying to dethrone the KING has been for many years.
Corvette is like the King of the Jungle. and the others "pony cars" or so called Muscle cars try to emulate the Vette. Try as they may even today the Lion is still the King of the Jungle. Sometimes Jealousy runs deep into the herd that follows the King. LOL
However alot of Muscle guys are afraid of racing a Vette because of it's traction of the line like a Bunny rabbit, and the perception of them being "lightweights" with big motors.
Corvette is a Muscle car with the added feature of Standard 4wheel discs and IRS, and can handle respectfully compared to others.. Not to mention it's high speed stability.
No other Muscle Machine was built like the Corvette, and this ideology of trying to dethrone the KING has been for many years.
Corvette is like the King of the Jungle. and the others "pony cars" or so called Muscle cars try to emulate the Vette. Try as they may even today the Lion is still the King of the Jungle. Sometimes Jealousy runs deep into the herd that follows the King. LOL
11-29-2008, 12:42 AM
#136
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Gone, but not Forgotten
Cruise-In 5, 6, 8 & 10 Veteran
St. Jude '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09
Some idle ramblings on this general topic.
I've belonged to vintage Mustang clubs, Camaro clubs and mixed breed cruising clubs, but, thus far, I've declined joining a Corvette Club. The ones I've been exposed to seem to be populated by guys with big egos and big wallets who really aren't car guys, and their one-time trophy wives who insist on dressing like women 20 years their junior. I'm no kid, but there is only so much varicose veins and cellulite a guy can tolerate. A buddy of mine who is the president of our Mustang club also owns a C5 and belongs to a Vette group. He invited me to one of their meetings and I was turned off by the attitudes I saw there. I now attend Vette shows with three other guys who are not club affiliated. We are made up of a tripple black C5 vert, a beautiful 85 C4, my BB 69 C3 and a 62 C1 roadster. We have a ball together, but it is amazing to watch the partiality that the various host clubs display toward their own memebers and the interpersonal competition between people in the same show class. Nothing like that in the Mustang world.
A muscle car is a mid-sized sedan with a big azzed engine. They came that way from the factory and that was what drove me away from street racing back in the mid 60s. It was fun to line up agianst a guy with a 55 Chevy that he had built into a street racer, but where was the challenge of getting it on with a 64 426 wedge that some guy had just bought at the Plymouth dealership two days ago? There was no longer any incentive to build your own.
The Camaro, Firebird, Mustang, Cougar, Barracuda, Challanger, FMX, etc. were not muscle cars in the truest sense. They were pony cars, named for the originator of the type, Mustang. Certainly a big block pony car was every bit as formidable as a muscle car, but it really wasn't considered a muscle car back then. In fact, the original Mustangs (289 V8s) were kind of a joke on the street. BTW, the 428 CJ and SCJ Mustangs were no laughing matter.
While some folks aren't so catholic about the definition of a muscle car, I recall a local cruising group that held a Muscle Car Night once a month that objected to the newer Camaros and Firebirds attending because they weren't really muscle cars. If any of you have ridden in an LS1 powered Camaro/Firebird, you realize it's pretty hard to deny that they are muscular in their performance. In fact, they are stronger performers than most of the true muscle cars back in the day. I own a 2000 Z28 with 108K miles that I would be willing to run against any stock vintage muscle car. The numbers this little coupe with an automatic tranny and 2.73 gears has actually posted at the drag strip are superior to just about anything but the stoutest of the 60s-70s beasts.
So, in conclusion, Chevelle SSs are muscle cars, Camaros are pony cars and Corvettes are sportscars. And old ladies aught to lower their hemlines.
I think that's offended enough people.
I've belonged to vintage Mustang clubs, Camaro clubs and mixed breed cruising clubs, but, thus far, I've declined joining a Corvette Club. The ones I've been exposed to seem to be populated by guys with big egos and big wallets who really aren't car guys, and their one-time trophy wives who insist on dressing like women 20 years their junior. I'm no kid, but there is only so much varicose veins and cellulite a guy can tolerate. A buddy of mine who is the president of our Mustang club also owns a C5 and belongs to a Vette group. He invited me to one of their meetings and I was turned off by the attitudes I saw there. I now attend Vette shows with three other guys who are not club affiliated. We are made up of a tripple black C5 vert, a beautiful 85 C4, my BB 69 C3 and a 62 C1 roadster. We have a ball together, but it is amazing to watch the partiality that the various host clubs display toward their own memebers and the interpersonal competition between people in the same show class. Nothing like that in the Mustang world.
A muscle car is a mid-sized sedan with a big azzed engine. They came that way from the factory and that was what drove me away from street racing back in the mid 60s. It was fun to line up agianst a guy with a 55 Chevy that he had built into a street racer, but where was the challenge of getting it on with a 64 426 wedge that some guy had just bought at the Plymouth dealership two days ago? There was no longer any incentive to build your own.
The Camaro, Firebird, Mustang, Cougar, Barracuda, Challanger, FMX, etc. were not muscle cars in the truest sense. They were pony cars, named for the originator of the type, Mustang. Certainly a big block pony car was every bit as formidable as a muscle car, but it really wasn't considered a muscle car back then. In fact, the original Mustangs (289 V8s) were kind of a joke on the street. BTW, the 428 CJ and SCJ Mustangs were no laughing matter.
While some folks aren't so catholic about the definition of a muscle car, I recall a local cruising group that held a Muscle Car Night once a month that objected to the newer Camaros and Firebirds attending because they weren't really muscle cars. If any of you have ridden in an LS1 powered Camaro/Firebird, you realize it's pretty hard to deny that they are muscular in their performance. In fact, they are stronger performers than most of the true muscle cars back in the day. I own a 2000 Z28 with 108K miles that I would be willing to run against any stock vintage muscle car. The numbers this little coupe with an automatic tranny and 2.73 gears has actually posted at the drag strip are superior to just about anything but the stoutest of the 60s-70s beasts.
So, in conclusion, Chevelle SSs are muscle cars, Camaros are pony cars and Corvettes are sportscars. And old ladies aught to lower their hemlines.
I think that's offended enough people.
I started driving in 1967. I had a Chevy Impala SS, 327 with a Powerglide. Not exactly a "muscle car", but ran pretty well for a 2-ton machine.
That being said, anytime I saw a Vette I would always say to myself "Some day I'm gonna own one of those." Did I consider the Vettes muscle cars? Back then, not really. To me, muscle cars were the Firebirds, Camaros, Challengers and such. I considered the Vettes as the "Rich mans" sport car.
11-30-2008, 12:31 PM
#137
Heel & Toe
Muscle car guys don"t like Vettes because.......
It's just human nature. It"s called envy.
Why do all non Yankee fans hate the Yankees?
Why do all other countries hate the USA?
Why do students at Bunker Hill Community College make fun of Harvard students?
Why do Soldiers and Sailors dismiss U.S. Marines?
Why do guys from the poor part of town hate the guys from the rich part of town.
Why do most moron workers hate their bosses.
And on on and on.
Why do all non Yankee fans hate the Yankees?
Why do all other countries hate the USA?
Why do students at Bunker Hill Community College make fun of Harvard students?
Why do Soldiers and Sailors dismiss U.S. Marines?
Why do guys from the poor part of town hate the guys from the rich part of town.
Why do most moron workers hate their bosses.
And on on and on.
11-30-2008, 02:57 PM
#138
Drifting
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All my car guy friends like Vettes AND muscle cars...and I do too. I have a C3, a C6 and a 1970 Chevelle.
I know what you mean though. Some guys seem put off by a Vette and I can't figure that one out. It seems they either love 'em or hate 'em.
Vette's don't fit in with the euro-snob sports cars nor do they fit in with the muscle cars from yesteryear...I think we are in a class of our own. Viva la Vette.
I know what you mean though. Some guys seem put off by a Vette and I can't figure that one out. It seems they either love 'em or hate 'em.
Vette's don't fit in with the euro-snob sports cars nor do they fit in with the muscle cars from yesteryear...I think we are in a class of our own. Viva la Vette.
Mongoose,
I second that motion!
I too like a variety of muscle, sports or whatever you want to call them.
I've got a 63 Vette vert, 69 427 coupe, 91 ZR-1, 97 c-5 and a 1970 LS-6 Chevelle and a 1970 SS 396 Convertible, love them all and have had many other brands such as a 57 T-Bird, Boss 302, 69 and 70 and 72 AMX, Buick Grand Sports, 400 Firebirds, GTO's, a slew of Camaros, numerous Tri-5 chevys, even a Dodge or two.
Nothing like variety...flavored with muscle.
I guess I'm living the Americam Dream-Lost in the 60's somewhere and don't want to be found.......
Gibby
12-04-2008, 11:08 PM
#140
Advanced
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???!!!
Corvette
Camaro=poor mans Corvette
Nova= poor mans Camaro
And so on.
I have an 82 vette(very pretty) and a 70 Camaro(very ugly) I love them both and hope to never have to part with either one.
I even like some Novas but I don't have one yet!
Camaro=poor mans Corvette
Nova= poor mans Camaro
And so on.
I have an 82 vette(very pretty) and a 70 Camaro(very ugly) I love them both and hope to never have to part with either one.
I even like some Novas but I don't have one yet!