What is NCRS Top Flight?
12-24-2007, 08:37 AM
#1
hardworkinman
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What is NCRS Top Flight?
I noticed someone speak about this rating for their car, which I am guessing will help you get more money for it, or what you are asking if you get a good score. What is it and how do you get one? Who would I call and is there anybody local in middle TN that offers this type of inspection? What are the cost involved? What are the benefits? Thanks!
I would appreciate any and all feedback, (pros and cons)...
I would appreciate any and all feedback, (pros and cons)...
12-24-2007, 09:04 AM
#3
Le Mans Master
The National Corvette Restorers Society (NCRS - www.ncrs.org) is an organization that promotes the maintining or restoring of Corvettes to Typical Factory Production, or how they roled off the assembly line. A Top-Flight award is one of the highest that a car can achieve. Each area of the car (Body/Exterior, Mechanical, Chassis, Interior) are assigned points (4500 total to start). At a judging meet the car will be gone over and where needed, deductions made for items that are not found to be Typical Factory Production (Trim Tags, Vin Tags, Paint, Engine and PArt Numbers, Date Codes, Bolt head markings and finishes, etc. etc.). There are other levels to take a car to (Duntov Mark of Excellence) for one.
Some people find it (as our informed prior poster reveals) to be a waste of time and money. But there are over 40000 members or more now many of whom believe it is worth the effort and cost. If you watch any of hte car auctions on TV (Barrett-Jackson and RM) you willl see that the judged and documented cars bring higher dollars. THis can be misleading though because just because a car got a Top-Flight doesn't mean the car is perfect and the judging process is very subjective.
So if you were at all interested, I would do a lot of reading up on it and check out the NCRS materials. But when you start paying $400 for that original PCV valve for 1 point in the judging process you may get a little discouraged. It has taken a turn recently.
I've done two frame-off restorations recently on 63 Fuel Injected Convertibles that achieved Top-Flight. It was a great eperience and I had a lot of fun doing it. Both cars sold for way more than I had into them which would not have been the case without the TF awards. On a C3 if it is a desirable car or one the owner would like to be original as possible it might be something to consider to go through the judging process and see where the car stands. It costs little (the judging process, not a restoration of course) and any car can be judged no matter what the condition.
12-24-2007, 09:41 AM
#5
Race Director
NCRS Judging consists of having your car judged at any one of the various NCRS Judging events throughout the year, all over the country. There is one "National Convention" yearly, which moves to different locations around the country. Seven Regionals per year that also "move" around the country, but a few are in the same place yearly like the Orlando, FL one coming up Jan 9-13. Then there are probably 25-35 smaller "Chapter" Judging events done yearly all over the country in different locations.
NCRS scores more for "originality" side than "condition" side. I think it's like a 60% 40% split. A team of judges does your interior, another team does the exterior, another team the chassis and another team the engine compartment. A team will also do an "Operations Check" of all the windows, wipers, horn, alarm, headlights, tailights, heater, A/C, etc. for proper function. Obviously, your low mileage "time capsule" cars with almost all their original parts, such as air filters, tires, shocks, exhausts, plug wires, belts & hoses and such will score very, very well vs the car that shows up with non-stock/non-original BF Goodrich tires, AutoZone battery, NAPA belts, hoses & filters. All these parts are judged on originality & condition vs "non-originality". All cars start with 4500 points and deductions made on what each item scored is worth. Original mufflers may score 20pts, whereas FlowMasters would be a major deduction. Same with non-original tires, which I believe are a 60 point item. Many people have their cars judged several times and make improvements along the way. I've been involved since '96, so I've been in it for about 11 years. Met alot of great people and seen some nice cars over the years and have been to alot of places I otherwise probably would have never have been to.
...there is a Regional in Chattannooga, TN April 17-19 next year you could visit or attend to see what it's about.
NCRS scores more for "originality" side than "condition" side. I think it's like a 60% 40% split. A team of judges does your interior, another team does the exterior, another team the chassis and another team the engine compartment. A team will also do an "Operations Check" of all the windows, wipers, horn, alarm, headlights, tailights, heater, A/C, etc. for proper function. Obviously, your low mileage "time capsule" cars with almost all their original parts, such as air filters, tires, shocks, exhausts, plug wires, belts & hoses and such will score very, very well vs the car that shows up with non-stock/non-original BF Goodrich tires, AutoZone battery, NAPA belts, hoses & filters. All these parts are judged on originality & condition vs "non-originality". All cars start with 4500 points and deductions made on what each item scored is worth. Original mufflers may score 20pts, whereas FlowMasters would be a major deduction. Same with non-original tires, which I believe are a 60 point item. Many people have their cars judged several times and make improvements along the way. I've been involved since '96, so I've been in it for about 11 years. Met alot of great people and seen some nice cars over the years and have been to alot of places I otherwise probably would have never have been to.
...there is a Regional in Chattannooga, TN April 17-19 next year you could visit or attend to see what it's about.
12-24-2007, 10:11 AM
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hardworkinman
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thank you guys very much for the info. I will have to look into the one in Chattanooga. I got a little work to do on my car, but minor things only. I just didn't know anything about it, but I knew someone here would, (except for the one remark made), you have been very helpfull. Thanks again....
12-24-2007, 10:37 AM
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thank you guys very much for the info. I will have to look into the one in Chattanooga. I got a little work to do on my car, but minor things only. I just didn't know anything about it, but I knew someone here would, (except for the one remark made), you have been very helpfull. Thanks again....
And, as most of the responders posted so well, it is a win/win as you push your car closer to Top Flight, including value wise.
12-24-2007, 10:50 AM
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HWM- start slow. Buy an NCRS judging guide for your year car. They are about $30 and I've found them to be the most helpful resource in deciding how to restore a vehicle. It will give you assistance on what should be there, in what configuration, in what finish. This will not only help you straighten the car out, but show you just how close (or not close) you are to Top Flight.
And, as most of the responders posted so well, it is a win/win as you push your car closer to Top Flight, including value wise.
And, as most of the responders posted so well, it is a win/win as you push your car closer to Top Flight, including value wise.
12-24-2007, 11:00 AM
#9
Le Mans Master
http://www.ncrs.org/store/shop.cgi/p...198511894.2660
There are many other good books out there but if you are interested in how "correct" your car is from an NCRS standpoint, the judging guides are the way to go.
There are many other good books out there but if you are interested in how "correct" your car is from an NCRS standpoint, the judging guides are the way to go.
12-24-2007, 11:09 AM
#11
Instructor
Not to burst your bubble or anything but your car has a long ways to go to be a Top Flight candidate (mine is further away than yours). Your car has aftermarket wheels/tires, paint, pinstripes, louvers, mufflers, etc. It's a beautiful car though. You should just drive it and enjoy it. By the way, I love the wire wheels on yours; looks great. Again, I'm not trying to put your car down by any means. If you do decide to go for it, good luck!!
12-24-2007, 12:07 PM
#12
If your goal is to simply show up once, get a certificate then flip the car on eBay and never be seen again, please stay home.
NCRS is made up of unpaid volunteers who contribute to the hobby with their own free time- at their own expense. The manner in which it became successful is with people who put in as much as they take out.
It is not a paid service where some guys tells you what he thinks your car is worth.
Try joining your local chapter to find out what's going on, and then see if the judging process is right for you.
12-24-2007, 12:33 PM
#13
Melting Slicks
Join a local Vette club, and if you have the arrogance everybody else has you will fit right in and bow to all their ridiculous judging demands OR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you can just drive the car and fix it when it doesn't run and be your own person!!!! At that point you will see the absurdity of all the rules and restrictions.....................
You asked for pros and cons, very rarely will someone speak out, but owning a Vette is WAY overrated, not the glory everybody who doesn't have one thinks it is. I have 2 and nothing more than royal pains in the ***, between bearings, leaf springs, brakes etc more trouble than they are worth. AND THEN YOU ASK" GET RID OF THEM", not financial rewarding at this point, will loose more than I have in them. So that is the opposing viewpoint, suck on that...........................B
12-24-2007, 01:05 PM
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That's a very helpful response.
The National Corvette Restorers Society (NCRS - www.ncrs.org) is an organization that promotes the maintining or restoring of Corvettes to Typical Factory Production, or how they roled off the assembly line. A Top-Flight award is one of the highest that a car can achieve. Each area of the car (Body/Exterior, Mechanical, Chassis, Interior) are assigned points (4500 total to start). At a judging meet the car will be gone over and where needed, deductions made for items that are not found to be Typical Factory Production (Trim Tags, Vin Tags, Paint, Engine and PArt Numbers, Date Codes, Bolt head markings and finishes, etc. etc.). There are other levels to take a car to (Duntov Mark of Excellence) for one.
Some people find it (as our informed prior poster reveals) to be a waste of time and money. But there are over 40000 members or more now many of whom believe it is worth the effort and cost. If you watch any of hte car auctions on TV (Barrett-Jackson and RM) you willl see that the judged and documented cars bring higher dollars. THis can be misleading though because just because a car got a Top-Flight doesn't mean the car is perfect and the judging process is very subjective.
So if you were at all interested, I would do a lot of reading up on it and check out the NCRS materials. But when you start paying $400 for that original PCV valve for 1 point in the judging process you may get a little discouraged. It has taken a turn recently.
I've done two frame-off restorations recently on 63 Fuel Injected Convertibles that achieved Top-Flight. It was a great eperience and I had a lot of fun doing it. Both cars sold for way more than I had into them which would not have been the case without the TF awards. On a C3 if it is a desirable car or one the owner would like to be original as possible it might be something to consider to go through the judging process and see where the car stands. It costs little (the judging process, not a restoration of course) and any car can be judged no matter what the condition.
The National Corvette Restorers Society (NCRS - www.ncrs.org) is an organization that promotes the maintining or restoring of Corvettes to Typical Factory Production, or how they roled off the assembly line. A Top-Flight award is one of the highest that a car can achieve. Each area of the car (Body/Exterior, Mechanical, Chassis, Interior) are assigned points (4500 total to start). At a judging meet the car will be gone over and where needed, deductions made for items that are not found to be Typical Factory Production (Trim Tags, Vin Tags, Paint, Engine and PArt Numbers, Date Codes, Bolt head markings and finishes, etc. etc.). There are other levels to take a car to (Duntov Mark of Excellence) for one.
Some people find it (as our informed prior poster reveals) to be a waste of time and money. But there are over 40000 members or more now many of whom believe it is worth the effort and cost. If you watch any of hte car auctions on TV (Barrett-Jackson and RM) you willl see that the judged and documented cars bring higher dollars. THis can be misleading though because just because a car got a Top-Flight doesn't mean the car is perfect and the judging process is very subjective.
So if you were at all interested, I would do a lot of reading up on it and check out the NCRS materials. But when you start paying $400 for that original PCV valve for 1 point in the judging process you may get a little discouraged. It has taken a turn recently.
I've done two frame-off restorations recently on 63 Fuel Injected Convertibles that achieved Top-Flight. It was a great eperience and I had a lot of fun doing it. Both cars sold for way more than I had into them which would not have been the case without the TF awards. On a C3 if it is a desirable car or one the owner would like to be original as possible it might be something to consider to go through the judging process and see where the car stands. It costs little (the judging process, not a restoration of course) and any car can be judged no matter what the condition.
Some people will never get it.
It's a hobby . Some people make them like they want them. Some put them back the way they were. People shouldn't care with road is taken. The big differance is when one sells the Corvette. The factory restored car will bring alot more money than a mod. car & cost the same to do either. Maby that's why their anti NSCRS. KEN
Last edited by kenba; 12-24-2007 at 01:10 PM.
12-24-2007, 01:10 PM
#16
Safety Car
12-24-2007, 01:13 PM
#17
Melting Slicks
Join a local Vette club, and if you have the arrogance everybody else has you will fit right in and bow to all their ridiculous judging demands OR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you can just drive the car and fix it when it doesn't run and be your own person!!!! At that point you will see the absurdity of all the rules and restrictions.....................
You asked for pros and cons, very rarely will someone speak out, but owning a Vette is WAY overrated, not the glory everybody who doesn't have one thinks it is. I have 2 and nothing more than royal pains in the ***, between bearings, leaf springs, brakes etc more trouble than they are worth. AND THEN YOU ASK" GET RID OF THEM", not financial rewarding at this point, will loose more than I have in them. So that is the opposing viewpoint, suck on that...........................B
You asked for pros and cons, very rarely will someone speak out, but owning a Vette is WAY overrated, not the glory everybody who doesn't have one thinks it is. I have 2 and nothing more than royal pains in the ***, between bearings, leaf springs, brakes etc more trouble than they are worth. AND THEN YOU ASK" GET RID OF THEM", not financial rewarding at this point, will loose more than I have in them. So that is the opposing viewpoint, suck on that...........................B
12-24-2007, 01:22 PM
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KEN
12-24-2007, 01:23 PM
#20
Le Mans Master
