You can invest in a C3, but what about a C4?
06-25-2007, 09:03 PM
#21
Outside of the specialty models as listed above, I don't believe the average C4 will ever recover any investment value within a reasonable time frame.
Those cars are as boring design wise as many current vehicles, so you cant even see a return to nostalgia like we've seen in the C3 series. The cars at $4-$6k are a dime a dozen and are great daily drivers to wear out and throw away.
Thinking investment is pure folly.
Those cars are as boring design wise as many current vehicles, so you cant even see a return to nostalgia like we've seen in the C3 series. The cars at $4-$6k are a dime a dozen and are great daily drivers to wear out and throw away.
Thinking investment is pure folly.
06-25-2007, 09:24 PM
#22
Le Mans Master
C4's Electrical Nightmare
I had a C4 convertible and was sucked in by the styling. They are a beautiful car but when you have problems, they can be an electrical nightmare. I have always done all of my own work and with this car had to take it to the dealer and it always took them several tries before they could fix it. Due to this I don't think anyone that had this experience would ever put much value on them as a long term investment unless it is a rare, high optioned car.
06-25-2007, 09:34 PM
#23
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Mar 2000
Location: Pottsville, PA. USA Home Of America's Oldest Brewery Yuengling
Posts: 9,064
Received 2,239 Likes
on
1,033 Posts
I sell Corvettes and here is what I have seen in the market. 1984 to 1990 cars you can't give away. 1991 to 1996 cars sell fairly well especially low miles in good colors.
1996 Grand Sports and 1995 Pace Cars have been going up in value the last couple of years. The 1993 Anniversary cars and the 1996 Collector Edition's with low miles are also strong.
1990 to 1992 ZR-1's are very slow sellers. 1993 to 1995 ZR-1 sell very well with low miles and good colors. The 1993 to 1995 ZR-1's with single digit miles bring in the 40-50 thousand range.
Color also means everything. Yellow, Black, Torch Red cars bring more money than other colors. Steel Blue, Turquoise on the 90/91 years brings good money also.
Six Speeds were in one out of every 5 cars built so most cars were automatics. Convertibles were only about 30% of production so most cars were coupes.
1996 Grand Sports and 1995 Pace Cars have been going up in value the last couple of years. The 1993 Anniversary cars and the 1996 Collector Edition's with low miles are also strong.
1990 to 1992 ZR-1's are very slow sellers. 1993 to 1995 ZR-1 sell very well with low miles and good colors. The 1993 to 1995 ZR-1's with single digit miles bring in the 40-50 thousand range.
Color also means everything. Yellow, Black, Torch Red cars bring more money than other colors. Steel Blue, Turquoise on the 90/91 years brings good money also.
Six Speeds were in one out of every 5 cars built so most cars were automatics. Convertibles were only about 30% of production so most cars were coupes.
06-26-2007, 03:24 AM
#28
Instructor
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: Madison WI
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IMO, the electrical complexity of the C4 will hurt its collectible status in the future. I don't want to imagine what it will be like to troubleshoot and fix electrical issues (i.e. bad grounds, faulty relays, brittle wiring, corrosion, etc.) on these cars when they are 30 years old.
I also believe that the difficulty of servicing some of the components on C4s (i.e. parts jammed too close together or difficult to get at) will also hurt future collectibility as many car enthusiasts/collectors want car that are enjoyable to work on.
As amazing and legendary as the ZR1 is....good luck finding a competent shop to service it unless you live in a major metropolitan area. My personal ownership experience with a ZR1 and other rare "exotic" cars leads me to believe that parts availability will become a serious problem when ZR1s become old cars as not enough of them were produced for it to be profitable for aftermarket part producers to make parts for them. IMO, the Porsche 928 does an excellent job of illustrating what it might be like to own a ZR1 in the future (i.e. very expensive and very difficult to get parts for).
On a positive note, one thing I love about the C3 and most muscle cars is that their simplicity and ease of servicing makes them enjoyable and relatively inexpensive own. IMO, simplicity generates equates to fewer things going wrong, less downtime, less expensive repairs, and a more enjoyable overall ownership experience.
Just my $.02 worth.
I also believe that the difficulty of servicing some of the components on C4s (i.e. parts jammed too close together or difficult to get at) will also hurt future collectibility as many car enthusiasts/collectors want car that are enjoyable to work on.
As amazing and legendary as the ZR1 is....good luck finding a competent shop to service it unless you live in a major metropolitan area. My personal ownership experience with a ZR1 and other rare "exotic" cars leads me to believe that parts availability will become a serious problem when ZR1s become old cars as not enough of them were produced for it to be profitable for aftermarket part producers to make parts for them. IMO, the Porsche 928 does an excellent job of illustrating what it might be like to own a ZR1 in the future (i.e. very expensive and very difficult to get parts for).
On a positive note, one thing I love about the C3 and most muscle cars is that their simplicity and ease of servicing makes them enjoyable and relatively inexpensive own. IMO, simplicity generates equates to fewer things going wrong, less downtime, less expensive repairs, and a more enjoyable overall ownership experience.
Just my $.02 worth.
06-26-2007, 08:58 AM
#29
Le Mans Master
06-26-2007, 09:11 AM
#30
CF JASOC Member
I've never heard C4 and Investment used in the same sentence.
No wait...
Large investment of Time and Money.
Good thing all I've ever expected from my '88 is a
No wait...
Large investment of Time and Money.
Good thing all I've ever expected from my '88 is a
06-26-2007, 12:30 PM
#31
Safety Car
Member Since: Dec 2004
Location: San Diego CA
Posts: 4,071
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The only thing you should invest in to a C4 for is racing.
They are EXCELLENT autocross cars. Seen more than one get on the heels of Gary Thomason (SCCA Solo2 National champion for like 10 years) in his 2004 Porsche GT3.
Other than daily driving and that, though, can't see much other real worth to them.
They are EXCELLENT autocross cars. Seen more than one get on the heels of Gary Thomason (SCCA Solo2 National champion for like 10 years) in his 2004 Porsche GT3.
Other than daily driving and that, though, can't see much other real worth to them.
06-26-2007, 01:38 PM
#32
Drifting
06-27-2007, 08:56 AM
#34
East bound and down...
The highest production years for the Corvette were 77-79.
C1a - 4,640
C1b - 64,375
C2 - 117,964
C3 - 547,834 (overall peak year, 1979 - 53,807)
C4 - 358,362
180,000+ more C3s out there than C4s..."sheer quantity" favors C3s by a healthy margin.
http://www.oddrob.com/corvetteStats.asp
C1a - 4,640
C1b - 64,375
C2 - 117,964
C3 - 547,834 (overall peak year, 1979 - 53,807)
C4 - 358,362
180,000+ more C3s out there than C4s..."sheer quantity" favors C3s by a healthy margin.
http://www.oddrob.com/corvetteStats.asp
Last edited by LS-Five; 07-08-2007 at 02:04 AM.
06-27-2007, 10:13 AM
#35
Ive noticed that you can invest in a C3 and most of the time you will get your moneys worth out of it. I was wondering about the next generation. Lets say you bought an adequate C4, kept it in storage for about 15 to 20 years, do you think that its value would ever rise to something comparable to the early C3's? It jsut seems to me with C4 prices so low around 3K to 6K this would be the best time to buy one.
Tell me what you think
Tell me what you think
For starters the EARLY C3 cars are the ones now starting to command more money. The later 70s cars are still pretty cheap and easy to come by.
Assuming the C4s see anything similar I'd have to believe it will be the later LT1 powered cars that will get the $$$$$$.
Ultimately it's about the "look" first and then the Performance.
Any '68-'82 might appeal to the person who wants that "Style" or "look" so then the next consideration would be performance...........here all the really desirable stuff like big horsepower and lot's of cubic inch engines are in the the early cars.
If you applied the same thinking to the C4 you'd come away saying anyone looking back years from now is probably gonna choose a '92-'96 over anything from the 80s.
Then there is $$$$$$$$ to put 'em back together. Those cars from the 70s and 60s sure are easier and cheaper to get rolling again.
Even if I were a fan of the C4, I'm not
(sorry), I just can't say I see enough value to putting the money into an old late 80s Corvette. It will never be a cheap car to keep running and if you're into the style of these years a '92-'96 is a much better a car still easy to find and very reasonably priced.
Given all this I think a REALLY cheap '85 or '86, as an example, is pretty likely to stay that way for the for-see-able future.
Is now a good time to buy one?
Sure, I guess, if you really want one but I don't think you need to be to concerned about waiting.
In the end NO CAR IS A GOOD INVESTMENT. They are a collectible at best one that is virtually GUARANTEED to look like a silly place to park investment cash as compared to REAL investments........prices can be pretty fickle too.
Old Corvettes and other muscle cars are hot right now because those baby boomers are in their prime earning years and the kids are gone, leading lives of there own.
Lot's of extra disposable income to throw at this market. Makes you wonder though.Who buys all these cars in 20 or 30 years?
Baby-boomers will probably be more interested in making their retirement savings last than buying an unnecessary toy. Will the kids who seem to know so little today about these cars and the history step up?
In the end......
Buy what you like and enjoy it.
This is about a car to drive on Sunny, Sundays
......not an investment.
06-27-2007, 11:40 AM
#36
Team Owner
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: Springfield MO
Posts: 23,831
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes
on
6 Posts
St. Jude Donor '07
The fact I was trying to point out was the fact that all C4's looked about the same and performed about the same since you had no choice of different engines AND the fact that GM cranked out a bunch of those cars. I realize that there are more C3's out there in total, but there are big differences between the different years of C3's.
No choice of different engines? What about the ZR1 and LT4 as options? The LT1 replaced the L98 in the early 90s, and performance improved each year for all engines.
There are only three basic groups of C3s 68-73, 74-77, 78-82. Total production for any of those groups (especially the last one) is pretty hefty.
06-27-2007, 12:35 PM
#37
Instructor
Alternative fuels
In 25 years, (i'm not going to hold my breath but it's possible), there may be a major push for fuel economy, including legislation. And then, what if most cars, by that point go to an alternative fuel like hydrogen. Gasoline would become incredibly expensive (like it isn't already). This would kill most cars' collectibility, unless they're extremely rare. Just a thought.
06-27-2007, 06:10 PM
#38
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jun 2004
Location: Cortlandt Manor New York
Posts: 872
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
There are a lot of things that will give you a better return and less headaches than a C4. If you stored it for 20 years it has a chance to be worthless or a nightmare to repair and get ready for sale. With all the electrical intricacies on these cars I don't see them being drivable or repairable in 20 years. Even if you kept one hermetically sealed and it came out perfect after 20 years, all the other cars set the market price based on their being a nightmare that is expensive to repair.
