devildog

Paul,

The lead in TEL is benficial as an anti-wear surface lubricant.

One small caution about longterm TEL use in modern pump gas, is lead deposits. When we had TEL in pump gas we also had a halogen such as bromine in the fuel to react with the lead to form lead-bromide which was a gas and would scavange out the exhaust (why exhaust system use be replaced more frequently, ate the hell out of them).

Since there is no scavenger halogen in the pump gas, you will get lead build up in the head and exhaust valves. I would not worry about it on a limited drive Corvette...you will probably do some mod before that becomes a problem anyway.

You can totally blank out a spark plug and see teaspoons of lead deposits over time. If you have it over time not to worry, wont damage anything, but you will know what it is.

Joe

68vertible

Joe,

Sorry it took so long to get back to you. Great info! I never knew 'the rest of the story' about TEL. I wonder if these guys put any such halogens in the mix with their TEL. I may write Kemco and see what they have to say about it. I've been waiting until I get my new distributor to try and figure out exactly how little of the TEL I can add without detonation. My current dist is AFU so I'm being really cautious right now. Once I get the new distributor in and get the timing stabilized, I'm going to start bringing the TEL level down as low as I can. Thanks again for the heads up!

Paul

1969Vette383

My uncle was telling me about an octane boosting fuel additive, it may have been Toluene, I don't recall. What he said that I do remember was that if you had some in a cup, and tossed the fluid into the air, that it wouldn't hit the ground. It would evaporate before it got to the ground. Does this sound like a characteristic of Toluene?

Tuxblacray

Don't bother with adding this, you won't see an increase in MPG. You won't notice an increase in horsepower. You may however see the rubber products deterriorate after long term use since this is a solvent that isn't designed to be utilized for this purpose.
There are many good additives on the market designed for specific purposes from reputable companies. If you want to experiment do it on your lawnmower / not your Vette!
All of the articeles written on this topic are completely bogus and are not worth the time to read.

ksbunting

Tuxblacray,
I have read some of the articles referenced and they seem to have credibility especially the one written by the engineer working for the gasoline company.
What is your empirical evidence to support the statement that "they are bogus".
I am not disagreeing or agreeing with you, or attacking you' I am just trying to learn and make an intelligent decision on who to believe and why.
What is your background or have you specific experience with adding Toluene to gasoline?
Thanks,
Kurt

J-Rod

The point of many of these addiives aren't to increase HP or MPG. In fact I don't know any additive that can do either. The point of folks trying to increase octane is detonation resistance.

Many of the additive you talk about have their own sets of issues. Like those who primarily use MMT. Which has its own set of issues.

Point is your gasoline already has this compound in it. So adding more isn't going to destroy your engine, or much else.

norvalwilhelm

It is always recommended that you add the additive to a can of gas, mix it in the can and then pour it in the tank. Pouring straight additive in the tank might cause problems.

68/70Vette

I think that a common Formula 1 race car fuel is 80% tolulene and 20% heptane. Formula 1 engines (1.5 liters) use this fuel and very high turbo charger pressures to achieve about 1000 horsepower per 1000 CC's (61 cubic inches). If I've got my facts right, I'd say that tolulene is pretty effective as a fuel.

68vertible

Joe,

Kemco sent me the MDS for their TEL additive so I thought I'd post the chart of ingredients to see if any of them ring a bell.

Aromatic Hydrocarbons 70-95 %
Tetraethyl Lead 1.22 %
Dibromoethane 0.355 %
Dichloroethane 0.385 %

The one that looks interesting to me is Dibromoethane. It would seem to be some sort of bromine compound. I wonder if that is so, and would it provide the halogen benefit you described. Dichloroethane may be a chlorine compound with a similar effect. Any thoughts on these?

Entropy

Dibromoethane does contain bromine. ethane is a 2 carbon molecule, with a single bond between the carbons. The bromine atoms are attached to the carbon atoms (which ones is dependent on the numbering system usually given before the name). I imagine that like most hydrocarbons, this will burn in the combustion chamber, releasing the bromine from its bond to carbon.

trw

68vertible

This is encouraging....so maybe Kemco did a bang-up job of designing this love potion. Sounds like we needed available bromine, and it has been delivered.

Tuxblacray

Kurt,

Toulene & Acetone both have claims to fame as gasoline homebrew additives. To my point you would be better to burn premium fuel than to develop some garage version of "high octane". If you wanted to do this then buy something from your local speed shop that has been approved to boost the octane level.
Why would you want to take something that you love and cherish and experiment with?
As far as the article goes I can thumb through any JC Witney catalog and surmise that if I purchase all of the gas saving products I might only have to buy gasoline 1 more time in my life. They all have the claim to fame that they will save a certain % percentage of gas & increase horsepower.
Much like the makers of Slick 50, Motor Honey, STP, all reduce friction to a point they will all save major engine wear. Guess what changing your oil on a regular basis will do the same thing.

Don't get me wrong I think mixes have there place in the racing world. (I used to race off road bikes) but the additives were developed for racing, engine wear isn't the driving factor behind them, winning is.
Just my .02 try it in something disposable 1st and go from there.

SmokinBBC

Like I said before..Octane boost=

110 race gas, 93 premium 1 to 2 ratio gives you approximate 100.

If the price is too rich for your blood, then do 2 gallons 110 to 13 premium. This gives about 95.3 octane. The cost differential of those 2 gallons is about 2 bucks. So for 4 bucks extra you get 95.3 octane.

If you can't get race gas, you can skip it altogether and just go with 93..which should work just fine for most of our vettes.


By the way, don't blend if you have cats or emissions testing.

Przyojski

super old thread I know but it was kind of a fun and funny read for me! I also think it is relevant still... Especially for track junkies.
I've been considering some experimenting myself.

A heads up you are right dibromoethane is 2 bromides replacing two of the hydrogens on ethane. Its not stated but it is one on each carbon, we use it all the time as an activation agent in the lab. It will pretty readily oxidize certain reduced metals and form ethene gas.

No need to be too fearful of toluene, just take general precautions for handling chemicals, its not that big of a deal.

There are lots of good additives around and available. I am currently debating opening up a small race fuel company in the next year or two (more as a hobby than a career move). I'd be very interested in hearing what you guys pay, would like to pay, concerns, comments, suggestions, etc... I thought a thread with people who were considering additives already would be a good place to look for some feedback.

Przyojski

thats not toluene.

74modified

I am not sure how many of these guys are around after this amount of time. As to the home blending, I see too many people who think that if a little is good, a lot must be better. Many think octane relates to the power of the fuel, and think it would be a good thing to do even though they don't have detonation problems. A waste of time for most average C3 owners.

Przyojski

Oh no no I won't be home blending! I am a chemist so it would be precision done and lab instrument testing before it ever went in a motor in a car.
It would also likely include an (optional for the classics guys) lead substitute with (hopefully) better knock resistance characteristics.

Gotta use that PhD somewhere!

74modified

I didn't mean that you had no clue. I was referring to the thread subject, and the general knowledge of the driving public. I think the best business model would be for a concentrate to add to standard fuel. I develop hydrocracking catalysts and adsorbents so I understand your intentions.

Solid LT1

I have a challenge for you....take a Nitrophyl carb float commonly found in Holley and Qjet carbs, put it into a Toluene environment and tell me how long it lasts.....not very....Paint stripper isn't the compound to use in our vintage cars.....even the rubber fuel lines will be attacked. Toluene is great for softening race tires!

Przyojski

No kidding!? I do catalysts for C-C cross couplings. Iron and cobalt based. Lots of low molecular weight hydrocarbons into longer chains.
My primary interest is actually developing a good alcohol blend. I'm a huge fan of running ethanol mixes, I'd like to see where it could be adjusted and improved.