Greg

You know when you suddenly have one of those epiphanies that make you realize you're older than you once were? Like the one where the girl asks her dad "Was Paul McCartney really in a band before Wings?"

Well, I had one of those this weekend when my daughter and her boyfriend were visiting. I was in the garage working on the Vette and he was having a beer with me and talking cars. He really digs the vintage iron but it finally came up in the conversation that in his entire life (of 29 years) GM cars have always been $hitmobiles.......! Well, first I was offended and got very defensive about GM but then I realized suddenly, he was right. He didn't grow up with big block Chevelles or RS Camaros (not real ones anyway), 400, 4 speed Firebirds, SS Impalas or any of that pavement ripping V-8 stuff I took for granted. It was all just expensive stuff in magazines and car shows to him and his friends.

I suppose I can't blame him, who could get behind the crap GM was putting out in the 80's when he was a kid? I guess that's really why GM only has a 26% market share today. A 98 year old American company that, according to Fortune Magazine, is finally going to step aside for Toyota who is nipping at their heels for the number one spot.

"Hmmm, where are my glasses......?"
"Ha Ha, They're on your head Grandpa!"

TonySinclair

I was 25 when the GNX came out (your daughter's b/f would've been 10....prime age for being influenced by cars).



I would've given my left nut then for it, but I could only afford a Subaru 4WD Wagon (surfmobile).

Then there were ZR-1's, C4's in general and the GMC Typhoon & Syclone. Awesome factory machines...



No excuse...I think your daughter is dating a wuss...

Greg

Point taken Tony but those cars are the exception to most of what was available in the 80's.

Z-man

Interesting...I think US mfgs are putting out pretty good cars now but it might be too late. The unions and pension obligations are crushing the life out of anything they can do.

Greg

Hey Z-man,
I guess you read Fortune Magazine's story too, huh? That is exactly the point I was making, Bro.

blueray72

Could you help me out here? I didn't read the article. Should we outsource all the work for GM vehicles?

Ak. Mal

I'm 29 and that pretty much sums it up for me too. Aside from the obscure special editions (that were rarely seen where I grew up) GM pretty much has always sucked ***** unless you're talking trucks.

Luckily I had my older brother who was always into muscle cars influencing me. He's about to finish a 5 year resto on a '67 Camaro RS. Had my father been alive longer, he would have taught me the same. I was about 19 when my mom told me that the car her and my dad had when married was a '68 Chevelle.

bryan27

hey, I'm obviously a vette proponent, but I wouldn't own an american car if it was given to me other than a vette. (or something from the muscle car era)

socially they are embarrassing in my circles. they are thought of like trailer homes, chewing tobacco and nascar.

also, i agree that since the 80's they have been for the most part unrliable turds.

sorry to say, but it will be japanese cars for my daily drivers until america can step it up and produce cars actually worth the reputation of being called #1 again.

just my 2 cents...

ruby76

Im 28, and that's why My first vehicle was a 1968 chevrolet stepside pickup when I was 13. My dad and I rebuilt it for highschool with mild customization. Sold it for my Vette 2 years ago. Nothing newer than mid 70's is cool to me except for Corvettes and a couple of the newer cobra mustangs did I really just say that?

Tony, The ZR-1 and the GNX that you mention above, they were cool, but was waaaay out of any 10-13 year old's price range whereas honda civics and toyota tercel's were a dime a dozen for all my friends in highschool. The COOOL cars were hatchbacks with loud stereo's. My truck was the only one that could roast it's tires WITHOUT brake torqing. Im 28, but most of my friends are 50-60 year olds with real muscle car experience. Drive's my wife nuts b/c she doesn't have much incommon with their wives.

big_G

With all the vehicle manufacturers out there today, 26% market share is not too shabby. The unions and perks are going to go away, for the most part. Look at Delphi, they are filing bankruptcy because the unions would not compromise. Now Delphi is asking the courts to dissolve all negotiated union contracts in order to continue reorganization under bankruptcy. The unions have been too greedy for too long. Paybacks are hell.

theandies

I've always and will continue to buy American made cars for as long as I live (or as long as they are in business )

Z-man

Actually, I didn't know there was an article. I hate outsourcing. The problem is that the competition doesn't have to pay massive benefits for millions of retired employees so they can charge less for their cars, or build a better product for the same price. Since most Americans only look at price, guess who loses??

I'm old enough to have gone through a few cycles. I saw and owned some *** cars in the '70s and '80s and they were pure crap. All that they offer now is a bunch of electronics that have nothing to do with driving but all the kids like it. I drive 3 US cars and one German...

troy1m

you ricers keep putting your money in their hands while they keep using it to buy our country. and our companys who pay decent wages, pensions and health insurance are going broke.

gdm78vette

My dad worked for GM here in Canada. We always had GM cars and as I kid I always thought they were the best.
Then I bought an '89 full size GMC van that was the worst piece of junk I've ever owned.
On a trip to Florida the alternator nearly fell off the engine, this after it's second repair just before leaving on the trip. A blade broke off the fan unbalancing the entire engine. Only fix (because no dealer between Virginia and New York had a fan blade in stock) was to remove the fan and drive from Virginia back to Montreal without proper engine cooling.
GM seemed totally uninterested in working with me to solve the many problems this van had. I sold it and started a 15 year run of Japaneese cars. I'd vowed to never again buy GM.
Needless to say I was tempted by the new Cadillac SRX and have actually leased an '04. While I love driving this car it has had its share of "issues". Just check out the Cadillac forums for a taste. Still, I guess I'd go for another one sometime down the road.
I've also bought a '05 Cobalt for the wife and aside from the ignition coil failure when the car was less than a month old has been reliable so far.
Maybe GM has me back as a customer.

Greg

Yes Thomas (great avatar),

Without getting into the whole union/non-union issue, financial advisors are saying GM is paying what have now become crippling costs for a combination of medical expenses, golden parachutes, retirement benefits, the Jobs Bank, etc. These were promises made to the unions during the strife-ridden 70's when GM agreed to almost anything to prevent any strikes by the UAW. Now their chickens have come home to roost. It's time to pay up on all of these high promises but with only a 26% market share, consumer confidence at an all time low and stiff competition from the import market they are finding it hard to do so.
Out-sourcing is helping them and killing them at the same time.
I don't know what the fix is.

Greg

ffas23

Why so many complain about American vehicles baffles me. I have had nothing but good luck with all my American cars and trucks over the years and I own GM, Ford and Chrysler.

Being in the auto parts business I see all kinds of vehicles that break down. Believe me the foreign cars break down too. The foreign car repair places aren't hurting for business.

As far as GM goes my biggest complaint with them years ago was the fact that they got rid of most of their rear wheel drive cars. That was a mistake that I think cost them. Getting rid of the rear wheel drive Monte Carlo and Caprice and coming back with front wheel drive models was a mistake. I mean how many police departments are buying front wheel drive Caprices? They are buying mostly Ford Crown Vics. I own a 2000 Merc Marquis because Ford was smarter then GM in keeping it a rear wheel drive car. Think about it. How many are going crazy over buying a new SS Monte Carlo that is front wheel drive. I still own two 80's Monte Carlo's an 87'SS and an 88'LS two nice cars built during that period. My 90' Full size Blazer is one of the best 4 whl drive trucks that I have owned. The biggest problem I ever had with it was replacing the heat core and radiator. Other then tune up, brakes, exhaust and shocks. Thats it. The last vehicle I have purchased for my business was a 2003 Ford E350 Full Size Van. Can't say anything bad about it. It hauls one hell of a load.

LittleJake

My department is cheap skates and we are buying the Impala's and they absolutly suck! I am not a ford man at all and cant stand owning a ford but the Crown Vics are by far the best police car ever made. Even the rear wheel drive Caprices couldnt hold a candle as far as performance to the Crown Vics.

kevinator80

I hoped this thread was going to be about why rice works, which occurred to me a couple of weeks ago after selling my Tahoe to a younger guy that was really into rice. After listening to him explain his interest and what all goes into making those little cars run fast, I was very impressed and realized two things. One, they don't need 500 hp to go fast. He told me about some of his cars that weigh less than 2000 lb with the driver, therefore the little engines he builds move them pretty darn good. Two, he is a gearhead just like us only from a different generation. Sure, his technology is different but his goal is the same and I bet if they could make them sound like a V8 they would.

Now, back to the ever running debate of American vs ***.

Z-man

OK - here's why rice *currently* works.

- Cheap used cars are available
- The body styles are "cuter" and sportier than than most 15-20 yr old US cars
- Most of them are 4 or 6 cyl which means economy (remember, when you are a teenager all you have money for is gas, new wheels and a chrome exhaust tip... )

stingr69

Good thread guys.

Think about this too. If the car wars of the 60's were being waged again today with loud graphics and loud exhausts (who ever the manufacturer is), the kids of today would lust for the power and prestige associated with owning one of the battling vehicles. Marketing works!

GM gave up (along with the other guys) on the performance car market when they squeezed out the last bit of profit from an already saturated market segment and went on down the road with the new, more profitable and larger truck trend. Follow the $$$.

We now sell big-a$$ trucks to loads people who (arguably) do not realy need them. They just pay big bucks for a highly optioned $$$ truck then use them to get to work and back because of "marketing". Margins now are higher on loaded down trucks than they were on performance cars. Sad but true.

If you market a product to a large, well heeled segment, it will sell, but you first need to have a financialy capable, sizeable market segment to begin with. Get the attention of todays kids with some competition, loud noises, and loud graphics and the cars will sell themselves down the road.

JMO

-Mark.