Now I understand why "Rice" works...
04-05-2006, 01:05 PM
#21
Melting Slicks
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When I was a kid I had lots of motorcycles. No one bought Harleys because they leaked oil, were heavy and ugly and a good *** bike could beat them. Oh yea, and the *** bikes cost lots less. Harley went on the ropes, had to borrow money from Uncle Sam, and came out of the darkness as one of America's best-oved brands. Now they sometimes sell for list-plus and for some models there is a waiting line. The *** makers try to copy the look of the "ugly" Harley. Few brands in America are more loved than Harley Davidson. The big three need to take a lesson from them.
.........think about it........
.........think about it........
04-05-2006, 01:22 PM
#22
Melting Slicks
When I went with Japanese in '91 one of the cars I bought was a Suzuki Swift GT. 100 HP, 5 speed. Very small, fast enough and cheap to run (no $70 fill ups!).
On a trip from Montreal to Toronto one weekend when the car was still almost new I was driving along at my usual 120 kph when I was passed by a Corvette doing maybe 140 - 150. Not being able to resist I stepped on it and kept pace with the Vette for the next 50 miles or so (speeds up to 160) until he exited the highway. As he was slowing in the exit lane I passed and he gave me a nod as well as a bit of an incredulous look.
I drove that car for 10 trouble free years.
That's two reasons why rice works!
On a trip from Montreal to Toronto one weekend when the car was still almost new I was driving along at my usual 120 kph when I was passed by a Corvette doing maybe 140 - 150. Not being able to resist I stepped on it and kept pace with the Vette for the next 50 miles or so (speeds up to 160) until he exited the highway. As he was slowing in the exit lane I passed and he gave me a nod as well as a bit of an incredulous look.
I drove that car for 10 trouble free years.
That's two reasons why rice works!
04-05-2006, 01:25 PM
#23
Melting Slicks
lets see..... I was -12 when my car was built. yes, thats a negative 12.
its just that those little honda's are so readily available for next to nothing. throw in some NOS and cut off the exhaust and it'll move pretty good (for a little while).
I still hate 'em. always did, always will.
its just that those little honda's are so readily available for next to nothing. throw in some NOS and cut off the exhaust and it'll move pretty good (for a little while).
I still hate 'em. always did, always will.
04-05-2006, 01:32 PM
#24
Melting Slicks
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Originally Posted by bryan27
hey, I'm obviously a vette proponent, but I wouldn't own an american car if it was given to me other than a vette. (or something from the muscle car era)
socially they are embarrassing in my circles. they are thought of like trailer homes, chewing tobacco and nascar.
also, i agree that since the 80's they have been for the most part unrliable turds.
sorry to say, but it will be japanese cars for my daily drivers until america can step it up and produce cars actually worth the reputation of being called #1 again.
just my 2 cents...
socially they are embarrassing in my circles. they are thought of like trailer homes, chewing tobacco and nascar.
also, i agree that since the 80's they have been for the most part unrliable turds.
sorry to say, but it will be japanese cars for my daily drivers until america can step it up and produce cars actually worth the reputation of being called #1 again.
just my 2 cents...
04-05-2006, 01:34 PM
#25
Drifting
Originally Posted by stingr69
Get the attention of todays kids with some competition, loud noises, and loud graphics and the cars will sell themselves down the road.-Mark.
Most Asian cars don't come "tuned" from the factory, but they are a good basis because the aftermarket has them covered so well with appearance and performance parts. The aftermarket pretty much ignored the big three with tuner parts in comparison. The lack of aftermarket parts for Cavaliers, Sunbirds, etc. had to influence young gearheads away from American cars.
High insurance rates are another reason that young people could not drive F bodies and Mustangs, most Asian cars have affordable rates.
If the youth market of today grows up with the mind set that Asian cars are cool, or influenced by parents that drive Asian cars, that's what they will buy.
04-05-2006, 02:25 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
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OK - here's why rice *currently* works.
- Cheap used cars are available
- The body styles are "cuter" and sportier than than most 15-20 yr old US cars
- Most of them are 4 or 6 cyl which means economy (remember, when you are a teenager all you have money for is gas, new wheels and a chrome exhaust tip
Back before the early '50s, the cheap, commonplace, small cars were Fords. They were light, easy to work on, parts were easy and inexpensive to get including speed equipment. More well-to-do Americans looked down their noses at the po' folks who drove Fords.The guys hopping them up were pushing automotive technology and development beyond the current levels, and much of their work was later incorperated into production cars. Anybody know Zora Arkus-Duntovs history?
The ricers of today are the same story...And yes I whine about them too.
John
- Cheap used cars are available
- The body styles are "cuter" and sportier than than most 15-20 yr old US cars
- Most of them are 4 or 6 cyl which means economy (remember, when you are a teenager all you have money for is gas, new wheels and a chrome exhaust tip
Back before the early '50s, the cheap, commonplace, small cars were Fords. They were light, easy to work on, parts were easy and inexpensive to get including speed equipment. More well-to-do Americans looked down their noses at the po' folks who drove Fords.The guys hopping them up were pushing automotive technology and development beyond the current levels, and much of their work was later incorperated into production cars. Anybody know Zora Arkus-Duntovs history?
The ricers of today are the same story...And yes I whine about them too.
John
04-05-2006, 02:28 PM
#28
Le Mans Master
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Originally Posted by bryan27
hey, I'm obviously a vette proponent, but I wouldn't own an american car if it was given to me other than a vette. (or something from the muscle car era)
socially they are embarrassing in my circles. they are thought of like trailer homes, chewing tobacco and nascar.
also, i agree that since the 80's they have been for the most part unrliable turds.
sorry to say, but it will be japanese cars for my daily drivers until america can step it up and produce cars actually worth the reputation of being called #1 again.
just my 2 cents...
socially they are embarrassing in my circles. they are thought of like trailer homes, chewing tobacco and nascar.
also, i agree that since the 80's they have been for the most part unrliable turds.
sorry to say, but it will be japanese cars for my daily drivers until america can step it up and produce cars actually worth the reputation of being called #1 again.
just my 2 cents...
04-05-2006, 02:42 PM
#29
Le Mans Master
Not sure about rice but my 89 Buick sedan ... yeah I know - old guy car ...
has over 250k miles and still runs pretty good (aside from the exhaust smoke).
Now, I am driving some rice (CRX) due to gas prices.
I have been eyeing a late 80s Firebird that my inspection guy is selling,
but with gas going up ... I might stick with the Honda.
has over 250k miles and still runs pretty good (aside from the exhaust smoke).
Now, I am driving some rice (CRX) due to gas prices.
I have been eyeing a late 80s Firebird that my inspection guy is selling,
but with gas going up ... I might stick with the Honda.
04-05-2006, 04:57 PM
#30
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '07
America has always been about doing it better for a lower price. As soon as someone starts to get a bit better at it, all the pseudo-patriots start wanting to ban imports, etc. Sounds a bit like a Soviet-style planned economy to me... 
Disclosure: I've owned a 65 Rustang, an 84 S-10 Blazer (biggest POS ever, but it would always keep moving), a 91 Talon AWD, a 90 Talon AWD, and the 77 Vette. The Talons could run circles around the Vette in stock trim, and do it with less fuel. The Rustang was probably the most reliable of them - only once did it not start for me.
Disclosure: I've owned a 65 Rustang, an 84 S-10 Blazer (biggest POS ever, but it would always keep moving), a 91 Talon AWD, a 90 Talon AWD, and the 77 Vette. The Talons could run circles around the Vette in stock trim, and do it with less fuel. The Rustang was probably the most reliable of them - only once did it not start for me.
04-05-2006, 05:39 PM
#31
Melting Slicks
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Originally Posted by bryan27
hey, I'm obviously a vette proponent, but I wouldn't own an american car if it was given to me other than a vette. (or something from the muscle car era)
socially they are embarrassing in my circles. they are thought of like trailer homes, chewing tobacco and nascar.
also, i agree that since the 80's they have been for the most part unrliable turds.
sorry to say, but it will be japanese cars for my daily drivers until america can step it up and produce cars actually worth the reputation of being called #1 again.
just my 2 cents...
socially they are embarrassing in my circles. they are thought of like trailer homes, chewing tobacco and nascar.
also, i agree that since the 80's they have been for the most part unrliable turds.
sorry to say, but it will be japanese cars for my daily drivers until america can step it up and produce cars actually worth the reputation of being called #1 again.
just my 2 cents...
04-05-2006, 05:41 PM
#32
Pro
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Originally Posted by stingr69
Good thread guys.
Think about this too. If the car wars of the 60's were being waged again today with loud graphics and loud exhausts (who ever the manufacturer is), the kids of today would lust for the power and prestige associated with owning one of the battling vehicles. Marketing works!
GM gave up (along with the other guys) on the performance car market when they squeezed out the last bit of profit from an already saturated market segment and went on down the road with the new, more profitable and larger truck trend. Follow the $$$.
We now sell big-a$$ trucks to loads people who (arguably) do not realy need them. They just pay big bucks for a highly optioned $$$ truck then use them to get to work and back because of "marketing". Margins now are higher on loaded down trucks than they were on performance cars. Sad but true.
If you market a product to a large, well heeled segment, it will sell, but you first need to have a financialy capable, sizeable market segment to begin with. Get the attention of todays kids with some competition, loud noises, and loud graphics and the cars will sell themselves down the road.
JMO
-Mark.
Think about this too. If the car wars of the 60's were being waged again today with loud graphics and loud exhausts (who ever the manufacturer is), the kids of today would lust for the power and prestige associated with owning one of the battling vehicles. Marketing works!
GM gave up (along with the other guys) on the performance car market when they squeezed out the last bit of profit from an already saturated market segment and went on down the road with the new, more profitable and larger truck trend. Follow the $$$.
We now sell big-a$$ trucks to loads people who (arguably) do not realy need them. They just pay big bucks for a highly optioned $$$ truck then use them to get to work and back because of "marketing". Margins now are higher on loaded down trucks than they were on performance cars. Sad but true.
If you market a product to a large, well heeled segment, it will sell, but you first need to have a financialy capable, sizeable market segment to begin with. Get the attention of todays kids with some competition, loud noises, and loud graphics and the cars will sell themselves down the road.
JMO
-Mark.
Last edited by surfshark; 04-05-2006 at 05:46 PM.
04-05-2006, 05:54 PM
#33
Safety Car
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Originally Posted by ahoover
Were the big three late to the punch with the youth market because they were too busy pushing trucks? I think partially so. Ford tried to appeal to the youth with the Focus SVT (failed), DCX has the Neon SRT that is semi successful but it's a 4 door, and GM arrives dead last with the Cobalt. I would like to drive the Cobalt SS next to a Honda Civic Si and see what the difference is. I know from history that the Civic will hold it's resale value higher and longer.
Most Asian cars don't come "tuned" from the factory, but they are a good basis because the aftermarket has them covered so well with appearance and performance parts. The aftermarket pretty much ignored the big three with tuner parts in comparison. The lack of aftermarket parts for Cavaliers, Sunbirds, etc. had to influence young gearheads away from American cars.
High insurance rates are another reason that young people could not drive F bodies and Mustangs, most Asian cars have affordable rates.
If the youth market of today grows up with the mind set that Asian cars are cool, or influenced by parents that drive Asian cars, that's what they will buy.
Most Asian cars don't come "tuned" from the factory, but they are a good basis because the aftermarket has them covered so well with appearance and performance parts. The aftermarket pretty much ignored the big three with tuner parts in comparison. The lack of aftermarket parts for Cavaliers, Sunbirds, etc. had to influence young gearheads away from American cars.
High insurance rates are another reason that young people could not drive F bodies and Mustangs, most Asian cars have affordable rates.
If the youth market of today grows up with the mind set that Asian cars are cool, or influenced by parents that drive Asian cars, that's what they will buy.
My first car was a V6 '94 Firebird with nearly 100k miles. Traded it in 6 or 7 months after owning it for a '95 Z28 with 66k miles and a 2 year warranty. Insurance wasn't that bad for either of em. Camaro got totalled in November of 2004 and I got my '81 vette. Now here's the funny thing, never once did I have to take my Firebird or my Camaro to a shop to get fixed. Got a refund on that warranty, too. Now my Vette... wow, lotsa stuff been done to it. Honestly, though, less problems with my 25 year old vette than people with newer *** cars.
The "reliability" of *** cars is a myth, in my opinion. I've seen just as many American cars run just as long just as easily.
04-05-2006, 06:13 PM
#35
Melting Slicks
Sorry i will take my 84 Trans Am over any rice bucket out there. I never had any real problems with it until i kileld it lol before it i had an 85 firebird and an 84 Monte Carlo. After the Trans Am(actually at the same time) i had a 73 SS 4spd Nova and a 96 1500 5 spd Sport truck. All American never had problems with them. Loved them all and would take them anyday over a Honda Civic. Besides no power they are death boxes, pregnant roller skates jsut waiting to get crushed by a nice size American car. Problem with rice boys is they have never driven anything that has torque and do not understand that is waht gets you moving and what puts that big hand on your chest pushing you back when you step on the loud pedal........ps obligatory pic lol i made sure not to include the one with my mullet
04-05-2006, 06:36 PM
#36
Racer
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regarding some previous posts:
#1 i truly love my vette. i've turned almost evry bolt on it and it's priceless to me. there is almost no prestige in it compared to my other cars. i just love the car.
#2 i'd love to buy american cars, if they start producing cars worth owning. it's truly sad that we are the best country in the world and our products aren't standing up to our bada$$ reputation.
#3 i might be feeding japan, but hey i work hard for my dollars and spend them wisely. i'd much rather feed america, but the big three have to show me a product that i want to spend my hard earned money on first.
#1 i truly love my vette. i've turned almost evry bolt on it and it's priceless to me. there is almost no prestige in it compared to my other cars. i just love the car.
#2 i'd love to buy american cars, if they start producing cars worth owning. it's truly sad that we are the best country in the world and our products aren't standing up to our bada$$ reputation.
#3 i might be feeding japan, but hey i work hard for my dollars and spend them wisely. i'd much rather feed america, but the big three have to show me a product that i want to spend my hard earned money on first.
04-05-2006, 07:01 PM
#38
Drifting
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I can't believe some people still try to argue that rice cars aren't as reliable or as good as their rep and that domestics are really the best but somehow americans got brainwashed...
There's always been overwhelming pressure to buy 'american' and plenty of japan bashing througout the years so imports had to live up to their rep in order to succeed so the idea that its a myth is ridiculous.
The Big American 3 reluctantly ADMITTED they had to improve because of their competition.
Anyway... Ford has become an importer with Mazda and Jaguar and Chevy imported Camaros and plan to import future Camaros from Canada etc. etc. etc.
Buy American today and you'll either be buying Foreign built American cars or American cars assembled with imported parts.
SO THE MOST SENSIBLE THING TO DO IS JUST BUY WHAT YOU LIKE.
There's always been overwhelming pressure to buy 'american' and plenty of japan bashing througout the years so imports had to live up to their rep in order to succeed so the idea that its a myth is ridiculous.
The Big American 3 reluctantly ADMITTED they had to improve because of their competition.
Anyway... Ford has become an importer with Mazda and Jaguar and Chevy imported Camaros and plan to import future Camaros from Canada etc. etc. etc.
Buy American today and you'll either be buying Foreign built American cars or American cars assembled with imported parts.
SO THE MOST SENSIBLE THING TO DO IS JUST BUY WHAT YOU LIKE.
04-05-2006, 07:05 PM
#39
Melting Slicks
I have owned 4 different American cars ( 3-mustangs and my vette) and 2 Japanese cars (2 toyota tacoma pickups) My American cars always had(have) one problem or another. I have been left on the side of the road more than once. My Toyotas have never had a single problem in about 150,000 miles between the two of them....Nothing, not even the smallest hicup in over 7 years.
One of my best friends bought (in 2001) a 2001 Chevy Astro at the same time as I bought my 2001 Tacoma.....I have over 75,000 mile on mine....0 problems, runs like new....He has about 35,0000 on his, and it has been in the shop for MAJOR repairs (replaced engine once) 3 or 4 different times......He just traded it in on a Chevy Suburban (and took a loss on the payments of his Astro)...He has already had to REPLACE THE MOTOR on his Suburban....WTF!!!!
Now I love all the muscle cars (especially Corvettes) of the older generation....I even really liked my 88 Mustang GT...but when it comes to buying a new car I can't think of more than 1 or 2 American cars that I would spend my money on.....This has nothing to do with loyalty to America or anything else other than the fact that from my personal experience new(er) American made cars have a serious reliability issue......That being said I would love a new(er) Viper
One of my best friends bought (in 2001) a 2001 Chevy Astro at the same time as I bought my 2001 Tacoma.....I have over 75,000 mile on mine....0 problems, runs like new....He has about 35,0000 on his, and it has been in the shop for MAJOR repairs (replaced engine once) 3 or 4 different times......He just traded it in on a Chevy Suburban (and took a loss on the payments of his Astro)...He has already had to REPLACE THE MOTOR on his Suburban....WTF!!!!
Now I love all the muscle cars (especially Corvettes) of the older generation....I even really liked my 88 Mustang GT...but when it comes to buying a new car I can't think of more than 1 or 2 American cars that I would spend my money on.....This has nothing to do with loyalty to America or anything else other than the fact that from my personal experience new(er) American made cars have a serious reliability issue......That being said I would love a new(er) Viper
04-05-2006, 07:11 PM
#40
Race Director
Originally Posted by Greg
You know when you suddenly have one of those epiphanies that make you realize you're older than you once were? Like the one where the girl asks her dad "Was Paul McCartney really in a band before Wings?"