Pete Pulos

Fellow Vetters:

I am coming over from the C4 forum, as I have an opportunity to purchase a '64 Conv. 327/365 Hp 4 speed from a friend that has had it for over 20 years. It does need some help, top, paint, but mechanically it is all there. Runs fine, good brakes

I do not know too much about C2s. Is there a web site that can point out if it is really a 365 hp 327, where to look for codes on the engine, trans, rear end, etc....

Also what areas should I look at for extreme deterioration, rust, damage, etc...

He is asking $18,500 - I know without seeing it is hard to estimate a price. I am looking to clean it up and resell it. How much can I plan on spending to clean it up decent not concours and what would the value be cleaned up?

Thanks in advance for any help

Donald #31176

The block casting is #3782870 and a cast date located opposite of the casting # where the bellhousing bolts. The engine pad should have a series of numbers starting with thel letter "F" which indicates the engine assembly date (month/ day) follwed by either

RE 365HP manuel Tran
RR " " " AC
RT " " " Transistor Ignition
RU " " " Ac Transistor Ignition


On the engine pad also are the VIN


For a in depth literature "Corvette Restoration & Tech. Guide Vol2 " by Noland Adams and "Vette Vues Fact Book of 1963-1967 Stingray" by MF Dobbins are 2 of the best.

As far as inspection of the vehicle, pay special attention to the frame and birdcage area. The frame area behind the seats is especially vulnable to rust.

If the car checks out and most of the original parts are present, $18.5K
is a very reasonable price. Good Luck.

Donald #31176

Nowhere Man

the codes for the motor are on the pass side of the motor up fron by the valve cover. for a 365 hp sould be RE for a car with a manual trany, RR for a car with a manual trany and AC, RT for a car with a manual trany AC and TI.
the areas you sould look for for rust are the frame kick up areas at the back by the rear wheels, and the bird cage thet will be hard to tell but try too look up behind the dash around the windshild and in the door jam where hinges are.

$18,500 sounds a good price if it is all there

kbuhagiar

[QUOTE=$18,500 sounds like a good price if it is all there[/QUOTE]



Just make sure that the frame is in good shape!

kbuhagiar

Just make sure that the frame is not rusty!

jimgessner

Under the glove box, there are the trim tag and vin tag. Make sure they are in place and the vin agrees with the paperwork.

Mike Antonick has a book called "CORVETTE BLACK BOOK" . About $19 to $22 at your favorite book store. All the numbers and codes for all 53-2003 cars are listed in the book. It will help you a lot with origiinal parts. Even has carburators, heads, block, distributors,
alternators. Of couse, we all will be happy to help. Perhaps we can take it off your hand now without you touching the car???

jprop

Here's some info from another forum:
http://corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/1964/index.html

Pete Pulos

Thanks guys good info

I'll let you know how it turns out

Pete Pulos

Guys

You helped me with a previous post in identifying a car that I'm looking in to.

Here is what it is. The engine I believe is a true 327 365 Hp with the correct Holley and high rise aluminum intake. It is a 4 spd car. It also has the hardtop.

The numbers are as follows: Please decode them

The engie pad reads 4108562 FI220RE I think it is an I after the F and not a 1

Holley R2818

Block 3782870

However these are the problems. First the body looks solid it is Silver/Blue with a white top and white seats and blue dash/carpet. The interior needs to be redone as should be the paint.

My questions: Did the 365 come with a 6500 redline tach as compared to other horsepower cars of '64/

Could a 365Hp car be ordered with power brakes as this one has them?

It also has side pipes were these factory? It does not have the exhaust openings under the rear bumpers?

It generally looks like an aged 40 yr old car bushings, frame rust, paint cracking, etc....

This is the big one, the body tag and vin tag are gone from the cross brace under the dash. It has a metal Wisconsin Identificaion tag in their place on the cross brace. The title also has this Wis ID number on the paperwork. What is up with this? And how does it impact the value of the car?


He is asking $18500. What do you guys think????

jprop

4108562 should be the VIN number but that doesn't look like a corvette VIN. It should look like something like this: 40867S100001. 4 is the year, 0867 is a corvette convertible, S is for St. Louis, 100001 is the sequential order in which it was built. The engine (F1220RE) decodes as follows F= Flint, 12=Dec, 20=20th day of Dec, RE is a 365 HP manual transmission 4 BBL. The block casting code is correct for a 365 HP engine but this block was used on all Chevrolet 327 engines from 63 to most of 65. Not sure about the redline. I'm fairly certain that this car could be ordered with off road exhaust. It would not have holes for the dual exhaust in the rear. If you're looking for a matching numbers car, you should double check that VIN. The VIN on the engine should match the VIN under the glove box. Double check the engine pad number. The carb is the correct type. Everything else seems to check out. If not rusty, seems like a good price to me.

jprop

Just noticed that you said the VIN plate was missing. Yes, this would affect the price. Is the VIN located on any of the paper work? The VIN for the car is also located on the frame but it is a little tough to find. It is located on top of the "arch" where the frame goes over the rear axle on the driver side. Somebody posted a great picture of this recently. Do a quick search and you will see exactly where to look. You will have to remove the tire to get to it. Also, check the casting date of the block and the manifold. This should be a letter followed by two to four numbers. It will be located near the casting number. I would guess that it should be anywhere from August 63 to July/Aug 64. The manifold date and the block date will not likely match since they were cast seperately. If you are looking for a numbers matching car I might shy away from this one because of the missing VIN plate. If it is not important, it is definitly the correct type of engine and the price is reasonable for a NOM. Double check the VIN on the engine pad. That will tell you if this is a corvette engine.

ctjackster

The numbers are as follows: Please decode them

The engie pad reads 4108562 FI220RE I think it is an I after the F and not a 1

Answer- Flint-built engine assembled on 12-20-63 (the "4" in the VIN derivative stamp on the engine pad gives up the model year) built for a 365 hp, manual tranny car. The production number from the VIN gives up a Jan 8, 1964 "birthday" for the car, so this engine and its pad stamp all seem appropriate, but unless you pull a VIN stamp from the frame (look for a recent post from Vietnam Vet on where to look and how to do it) you are not able to confirm that this engine and this car match originally, as you have no VIN or trim tag.

Holley R2818

Answer - correct carb for this 365 SHP application, post up the 3 digit date code to determine if it is original to the car.

Block 3782870

Answer - correct block #, but post up the casting date for even more certainty - it is found up near the firewall on the pass side of the engine, alpha followed by two or three numeric digits

However these are the problems. First the body looks solid it is Silver/Blue with a white top and white seats and blue dash/carpet. The interior needs to be redone as should be the paint.

Answer - the Silver Blue ext color is among the 64 colors, and a white / blue interior was offered in 64, in both vinyl and leather.

My questions: Did the 365 come with a 6500 redline tach as compared to other horsepower cars of '64/

Answer - yes, hig redline tach

Could a 365Hp car be ordered with power brakes as this one has them?

Answer - Yes, only option you could not get from the factory on an L76 (365 hp) engine was PS, as the SHP oil pan is bigger than base and it interferes with PS unit.

It also has side pipes were these factory? It does not have the exhaust openings under the rear bumpers?

Answer - side exhaust (RPO N14) not available in 64. Most cars with sidepipes today did not have them originally, very popular owner-added item.

It generally looks like an aged 40 yr old car bushings, frame rust, paint cracking, etc....

This is the big one, the body tag and vin tag are gone from the cross brace under the dash. It has a metal Wisconsin Identificaion tag in their place on the cross brace. The title also has this Wis ID number on the paperwork. What is up with this? And how does it impact the value of the car?

Answer - it does impact the value of the car, both in terms of your negotiations with the seller (you should get some serious discount for this, if it was me) and certainly as far as resale is concerned - even if all original numbers matching etc, most buyers looking for a NCRS candidate will not be interested, as this car will require reproduction VIN and Trim tags, which are now more easily spotted. If you simply want the car to drive and have fun with, perhaps this is not much of an issue, but avoid paying top "numbers matching" dollar for it.

Not to mention you need to obtain satisfactory comfort that the car was not stolen at some point.

He is asking $18500. What do you guys think?

Answer - not having seen the car, I cannot really say, but based on what I have seen true basket-case C2s go for, and this is not a basket case, I would think that is a good deal.

JohnZ

The VIN derivative stamped on the block is in the proper format for a '64, and if the engine is original to the car, it makes sense with the engine plant date/code stamp (car was built on January 8th, engine was assembled on December 20th). The tach is correct for a 327/365, power brakes were legit with that engine, but the sidepipes were added later - they weren't available in production until 1965.

The state-assigned VIN and missing original VIN plate and trim tag probably means it was stolen at some point and later recovered with the tags missing. $18.5K sounds reasonable if the frame is solid and it's in decent shape, but it will always carry a reduced value due to the missing VIN and trim tags. If you can remove the left rear wheel and get to the top of the frame directly above the rear shock upper attaching bracket, it should have "4S108562" stamped about 1/2" in from the edge of the frame rail.

jprop

I would agree with all the above except for the engine build date. If the engine was built on 12-20-64, then, it is not the original engine. This is 12 months after the production date of the car. 12-20-63 is a better possibility. Find the casting date of the block and you'll know for sure.

ctjackster

the 64 was a typo - note I said the model year was a 64 per the stamp, meaning a December assembly date would be 63.

of course, luckily for me JohnZ repeated and agreed with my answers - phew!

I do think you should take my advice re Vietnam Vet's excellent post on the VIN stamp on the frame rail - very informative and pictures are always worth more than mere words of explanation. Link:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=874436

As for the missing Trim / VIN tags - while it is likely indicative of a stolen car, such is not the only answer - 64 (and 63) tags were welded on (although AO Smith 64s were getting rivetted trim tags - but not VINS - as I recall) with many being less than successfuly attached in the long term, not saying they would drop off but a constant brushing up against it (quite possible if storing and removing a convass boat bag from the floor of the front pass seat, for instance) could lead to dislodgement.

Pete Pulos

Guys

Thanks for the good info. I'll get back to you.

One last thing is there a build sheet on the tank or somewhere else that I should look for?

ctjackster

nope, not until '67

Pete Pulos

Well guys I did what you suggested with Vietnam Vet's VIN on top of the rear driver's side frame rail. After some sanding and cleaning the VIN is 108562 same as the engine. But no VIN on the cross bar under the glove box.

SO it looks like a stolen car from way back that is basically an original survivor car. It has all of the orginal components.

I am in contact with the owner before the person I am buying this from. That gentleman had the car in the 70s. I'll let you know what he says.

Thanks again for the great info.