Paul L

The car is a 1967 small block with accompanying hood. My intention was to convert to a more modern and reliable carb so I purchased a new Edelbrock 1406. The Holley will go in basement storage.

I have ordered the Edelbrock/Russell steel carb fuel line with filter and filter to fuel pump SS line as well. I wish to avoid rubber connections. Other bits and pieces at hand are the automatic transmission kickdown stud and a 0.32" carb base spacer/insulator for the prevention of fuel boil.

I was informed that the GM air cleaner base would not clear the Edelbrock electric choke and indeed that is so. So I purchased an Edelbrock 1221 unit and its base does clear the choke. The provided spout for the crankcase vent tube is too small for the existing rubber connecting hose so that is problem number one. I'm am not sure how I will deal with that.

All the pieces are not here but I mocked up the installation. It looks like the new setup will sit about 2" higher than what I have at the moment with an L-79 intake manifold (see pic). The Edelbrock air cleaner base does not "drop" as low as the stock and when I add the insulator that adds to the problem. So the issue is hood clearance. I am not certain that it will not fit but I am not confident it will.

I would very much appreciate advice/guidance from those who have done this conversion. Thank you.



*Edit*-I suppose I could "persuade" the stock base to clear the electric choke.





[Modified by paul67, 2:32 PM 6/25/2004]

sting66cp

I upgraded to a newer carb recently myself. I chose a Holley Steet Avenger, very happy with this carb, and I was able to use the stock air cleaner base.

Paul L

I do not like TTTs but I really need advice. So bear with me.

Vetterodder

You have several options that I can think of. One is to try to modify a drop base air cleaner to clear the choke. That thing sticks way out there though and I don't know of anyone that's been able to get one low enough for a SB hood. Another option is to convert it to a manual choke. Another option is a BB hood.

Another option, and what I'd do, is return the carb and all the other pieces needed to adapt it and get a new Holley (or Demon). The current "modern" Holley's and Demons are available in versions that would be a direct replacement without all the mods and adapters. An added bonus is that the new Holley's appearance is very close to stock. If a more modern look is desired, then the Demon might be preferable. As far as the Edelbrock being more reliable than the Holley (or Demon), I haven't seen that. What I have seen are comparisons between worn out carbs (Holley 4bls have been in production for about 50 years!) or mis-matched or modified-by-amateur carbs.

soppeng

I put the Edelbrock on my 65 coupe several months ago. It's a 327 (300 hp) with a 66 stock intake. I had two Holleys that I could never get to run right. I've got a stock air cleaner (A/C dual snorkel) with a cut in base to fit the Edelbrock. Everything clears with use of a 1/2" spacer on the air horn. No problem with hood clearance, but using an insulator might cause a problem. I'm much happier with the Edelbrock that the Holley that was on the car. The Demon might be a good choice too.

DZVette

Paul,

Here is some info (below) from earlier posts. Re: the crankcase vent tube nipple on the Edelbrock air cleaner, what I did was to go to O'Reilly and find a piece of hose to fit inside the larger vent tube hose to reduce down to fit the aluminum air cleaner nipple and clamped it at the nipple on the air cleaner. It was tight but with a little Sylglide I could slip the large tube onto the vent tube at the rear. The Edelbrock manifold on my setup may be lower than yours and I do not have a spacer in my setup. Haven't had any fuel boil problems.

Previous post:
Other specs:
Edelbrock Performer carb 1406 w/ elec choke
" " Manifold 2101
" 14" Pro-Flo Deep Flange Air Cleaner 1221
Mr. Gasket 14" diam. by 2" ht. (1480A) Air Filter Element (from O'Reilleys)
GM 350 Crate motor, Powerglide Trans.
PCV setup is from the new valve covers. On the old 327 I had the large hose hooked up to the stock crankcase vent tube and the line from the oil filler neck to the vac port on the rear of the carb.
I had the carb and Air Cleaner on the 327 300 that was in the car before we swapped in the 350. It fit OK on that engine that had the stock manifold. I used a piece of large hose (1"?) to connect the outlet from the cleaner to the crankcase vent tube back by the distributor. If I recall, we had a hose in hose to adapt the 1"tube to fit on the nipple of the ac flange and clamped it there. You clould probably just clamp it down to fit as well. Use a little Sylglide or some silicone grease to slide the hose onto the vent tube (made it easier to slip the cleaner on and off).


Good luck.

DZ

yooperod

fwiw, in case you consider trying a holley Street Avenger.
I had on on my car temporarily and my 64 shp air cleaner would not clear the center hung bowls (dual feed) , ended up putting a overprice k&n unit on it.
After a closer look
I believe the side hung bowls off my original type holley will fit the Avenger
converting the fuel inlet to the left side and a single feed.
will try this next week and will keep the carb as a spare if it works out .

rod

Paul L

Vetterodder,
I really can't return the carb and accessories. They have come from a number of vendors across the border and that would simply be too expensive. And a BB hood would be nice but again an expensive proposition. I do have a spare air cleaner base and I will try to modify it.

As to reliability I cannot be a judge. The Edelbrock has been offered up as an inexpensive alternative several times on the Forum and it seemed like a good choice for my sunny, Sunday afternoon driving style.

Paul L

I thought of a spacer on the air horn but that would compound my problem with clearance. The L-79 intake does not help matters. If you look closely at this pic you can see the difference in height.




[Modified by paul67, 5:37 AM 6/26/2004]

Paul L

DZ,
Thank you for the reply. The hose within a hose idea came to mind and I am sure it will work well. Not too Bubba for my tastes . Omitting the spacer/insulator also is an option. I am saving this job for a rainy day as the car runs reasonably well and it looks like sunshine all weekend. The air cleaner base in the pic is a spare and I might do some experimenting with it, i.e. with a ball peen hammer.

JohnZ

It would be a lot simpler to just get the correct Holley rebuilt properly (including machining the main body surfaces dead flat and checking the metering block for flatness). I've had Holley 4150's and 4160's on my last ten cars, and they all ran just fine, with no leaks. Carbs don't get much simpler than a Holley, but if the main body or metering blocks are warped, all the rebuild kits in the world won't help them.

00fxd

This Carb conversion is not in any way as bolt on on as some would make you think. I learned that right away years ago when I bought my 1st and only "Carter performance series" carb. With all the hoopla and fan fare how great it was, it's just not a job for novices. Now for some reason Edlebrock bought that division of Carter and is selling them. I guess they're an ok carb but not for anything I need. It would probably be a reasonable replacement carb if your carb was originally equipped with the AFB[carter]. You could buy a nice new bolt on replacment Holley or if you're lucky enough to have your original, simply have it repaired and use it. There's very few Holley's that can't be rebuilt and repaired [unless it's been in a fire] to run economically and reliably and I've NEVER had a Holley that leaked from the dreaded bowl gaskets, those surfaces can very easily be draw filed and repaired. Probably for about the same $ or less [if it was me a lot less] than you've got into this set-up you could get fixed up. And you won't have to persuade or ball peen nice original parts to fit or buy a bunch of hokey overpriced gimic pieces. My thought would be to cut your losses and have your carb repaired by someone who knows how, new shaft bushings-the works, and try and return what you can and sell the rest off at swap meets. I guess you were advised that this would be a reasonable conversion but I don't see it. I just don't see the point of going through this aggrevation for an end result of dubious benefits and modifying a nice looking, original sytem that works just fine. I'm not even sure why you're gonna change your intake manifold for "Sunday afternoon driving'. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a closed minded purist, I change stuff all the time. Most of the time I change stuff to the system you've already got [or had]. Just my opinion, been there, done that. Good luck.

Paul L

Thanks John. But I don't have a lot of confidence in the Holley compared with the Q-Jet on my former 1979 L-82 that was trouble-free for many years. The Holley runs rich, boils over and just generally stinks up the car. I have little tolerance for this and of course do not need a fire under the hood. And blocking the intake exhaust cross-over passage , etc. is not something I will do. I explored most if not all the options offered here on the Forum and they did not lead me to Holley.

Paul L

I very much appreciate those comments. And to a certain extent I agree with you. (I replied to JohnZ before reading your post.) The original 1967 Holley is a keeper and I will have it re-done next winter. But I need to drive this summer and the Edelbrock seemed a reasonable alternative. As you have noted it is not a simple conversion. In fact it is getting rather expensive to put all the parts together. Live and learn!

I am betwixt and between at this point. I replaced the Holley power valve and went with NGK B4s as recommended by some here. I also had the chambered exhaust removed and went back to stock mufflers. Yesterday I had a drive on the freeway and did what I normally do not do: WOT. I do not know how a base engine/Powerglide maintains such a wide torque band but I hit 100mph very quickly. I do not take take pride in that irresponsible type of driving but it did tell me that things are working well.

I do not know what to do at this point. I may put the Edelbrock on but I do not relish the mods to air cleaner base, linkage, etc. As I noted to John, I lack some confidence in the Holley but it does seem to be working OK now. I will think about this. I may cut my losses and sell the Edelbrock and components on EBay. Thanks for your comments!

00fxd

JohnZ and I, I think, were replying at the same time. He said what I ment in a whole bunch fewer words. I do know that many years ago Holley did release a service bulletin stateing that you can flat file warped metering surfaces on the main body and I have done so several times with good results. Fileing the metering plates tho is not easily done and probably not possible but I have not seen metering plates warped beond useabilty but I have heard of some.

P.S. The occational 100mph burst is ok with me [in a well maintained machine]