Hyder59

I am considering putting an LS1 into my '59. Don't worry this car is a total basket case with a bad frame so while I am doing a massive deviation from stock, at least it will be brought back to life.

Anyways, has anyone on the forum done this? I am curious if there are any hood clearance problems? Does anyone know the block height and width of an LS1 vs a Gen I block

Edelbrock now sells a carb manifold and MSD a ignition system (so I don't have to use a computer) for LS1's so I am leaning that way as opposed to converting to fuel injection. My major requirement though is everything has to fit under a stock hood, which is a lot easier said than done as most of you probably know.

Thanks, Lee

John McGraw

I am doing this right now, although you will see by the pics in the attached link, that I took a more systematic approach to it. I went with C4 running gear front and rear and late model 4l60e trans. I am sure that you can get everything inside the stock frame and under the hood, but that is a lot of trouble to put in a high-tech engine like the LS in and then dumb it down with a carb and manifold. Then you have to do something about the ignition, since it is also operated by the computer. With the stock injection, you will have a real stormer that knocks down around 20 MPG and will never give you any trouble. If you are going carb, then just stick with a ZZ4 or similar engine, and avoid a lot of the fabrication nightmares. Just my $.02.
Regards, John McGraw

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubgallery.asp?id_=339303


[Modified by John McGraw, 9:37 PM 6/12/2004]


[Modified by John McGraw, 9:39 PM 6/12/2004]

62fuelie

I agree with John. Unless you are going to harness the full potential of the LS6, stick with a pre-LT1 block. It will make for much easier installation. A ZZ4 or a RamJet would be high on my list of potential powerplants.

firstgear

John, very nice....where did you get the frame (tube) at? How much was it if I might ask?

My 60 has a nice frame under it I am presuming....would you still do all that you did if you had a good frame?

My engine is a 70-73 350 out of a camaro. The car needs paint, minor body and engine upgrade....not sure wabout what else....hod did you arrive at putting that frame on it?

I am interested in doing a similar transformation like you .....you even have the right colors for me!

What are you going to do about the interior? I am a tall guy and need more legt room...also a little on the big side and need that steering wheel to be a bit more away. what are you doing for the seats and steering wheel?

please share...Herb

richscorvettes

Lee,

As far as the overall dimensions go the LS engine will fit fine in the engine compartment. You might actually encounter more hood clearance problems if switching to a carb.

There are other issues to deal with unique to the LS engine such as the headers, air cleaner intake, engine accessory mounting, motor mounts, cooling system setup, fuel system and engine electronics. All of these are more involved than if you used a small block Chevy. That said there are more and more places making some of these parts than there were three years ago when we built our 62.

Rich Lagasse

cbernhardt

Lee:

Here is a link to a web site that I created. http://www.carols62.com This site has links to various conversion frame manufacturers as well as some sites showing conversion projects.
Charles

John McGraw

Herb,
My frame was built by SRIII, and I went into this project looking for a car to do this with. My car had a servicable frame. but I sold it as well as all the other suspension components. There are a bunch of people out there building either new frames or converting your existing frame to take late model drivetrain and running gear. This frame was $5,000 bare, with no suspension on it. A salvage engine and trans ran another $4,000. Junkyard C4 front and rear suspension added another $1,400. Coil over shocks another $800. Sway bars added another $200. Rebuilding all the suspension parts and rearend added another $1,000. Wheels and tires $2,000. The list goes on and on.... I would guess without looking at my log sheets, that I have about $28,000 in my rolling chassis.
I am using a set of custom built seats from Wiseguys seats that will lower my seating position about 3" for more head clearance. The steering is allways a problem on these cars, but a smaller wheel and power rack and pinon steering should help. I also fabricated a custom gauge cluster that looks similar to the original, but allows me to move the steering wheel 2" closer the the dash.
As Rich pointed out, the LS engine will present a number of fabrication hurdles to overcome, but more and more vendors are making parts for this type of conversion. I would still suggest that this is not a project for a newcomer to the car building hobby, and would suggest that you stay more conventional for your first effort. As experienced as I am, I still have to brainstorm with people like Rich on how to overcame a particular problem on the LS conversion.
Regards, John McGraw

kenmo

Nice photos and a great ride... please keep us posted... !!!

Hyder59

To all, thanks for the advice.

John you are building a really nice car. Wish I had your skills and knowledge.
Yes, this is my first build from scratch, I usually just find a car and tweak on it. I am going to be using a frame built by Progressive Automotive, which is the best frame for me. I had looked at the SRIII frame and while it is beautiful, seems to require a lot of massaging on the body as well as fabrication. With the frame I am using I shouldn't have to do much massaging from what I have researched. Time will tell since I won't get delivery until the very end of the summer.

Yes, I realize the inherent benefits of fuel injection and a computer (cold starts, more precise fuel metering etc) I do think you can get about the same performance from a properly tuned carb. MSD has just started to offer an ignition system that eliminates the computer from the ignition process so...there must be more fools like me thinking along these lines.

What got me thinking about a carb on a LS1 was I found that SLP sells a 402 CID short block based on the 6.0L iron truck block for $3600. Not such a bad deal. The aftermarket now sells heads for the LS1 etc, etc. Anyways, I figured with a carb I could eliminate a lot of the computer/plumbing issues involved.

Again thanks for the advice. I am still planning the engine. I am also considering a big inch gen I small block so time will tell. I will probably go that route, but was considering the LS1 engine provided I didn't run into too many issues. Sounds like I may have my hands full if I go that route.

Later, Lee :flag

John McGraw

Hi Lee,
The SRIII frame does not really require much modification of the body or additional fabrication. It does require shortening the spare tire compartment to clear the C4 rear, but I do not know of any that do not require this modification. About the only other fabrication you have to do is the addition of bumper brackets. I have been bitching to Mike about this, but there are several bumper mounting layouts on C1 cars and he just lets you put the proper mounting on for your car. The wiring and computer portion of the LS1 is not at all difficult, and you can have a stock computer reprogramed to meet your needs for about $300. There are so many functions that the computer controls on the LS1 that I think that to not use one on a street driven car would be a mistake. It decides whether to retard the timing based on the knock sensors. To not have the knock sensors on a LS engine, could make for short engine life. There are many functions like this that are part of the integrated drivetrain system, that make for a very powerful, yet reliable drivetrain. The electronics are a little intimidating at first, but after you start really looking at them, they are pretty straight forward.
Regards, John McGraw

chicagotom

Nice pictures John,

What kind of brake booster are you using? Are you using stck pedals?
I would like to see more detailed pictures of your custom dash.

I am building a 62 w/sriii frame 94 LT1,ZF6. I am considering an autometer dash layout similar to a C2 layout. I should the cardboard mocks soon.

Tom

gingcars

John, Your '59 is gorgeous. I am doing a '57 and would like to achieve half the look of yours. Can you tell me if your front and rear suspension pieces are polished, powder coated, or ceramic coated? Thanks, Jim

John McGraw

Hi Jim,
The suspension parts are polished and then coated with POR Glisten clear. I tried clear powder coating them, but was unhappy with the finished product, so I stripped them and shot Glisten on them. The clear powder coat really dulled them down, and bubbled real bad on the cast rear center section and rear cover. I have seen a lot of chrome-look powder coating, and I would guess that it is about the most durable finish you could put on, but does not look like polished metal.
Grinding and polishing all these parts is a serious amount of work, and is about as filthy and nasty a job as you can imagine, but the end results are worth it!

Regards, John McGraw

Coolvet

I have also polished every piece of suspension, the differential and am now starting on the T56 gearbox. I have chosen Zoopseal to coat my pieces and have been delighted with how the finished product looks. Time will tell how long the Zoopseal prevents the alloy from oxidizing.

65air_coupe

John, that's a great looking project. After looking at all your photos I have to chastise myself for not getting my basically stock 65 back together any faster.

wesmigletz

I think I read about a vendor (Doc Rebuild?) selling bolt-in side mounts to mount a SB Chevy in a C1. There are sources for engine mounts to bolt an LS1 into a Gen 1 Camaro, and I think they are available for a Gen 1 Chevelle as well. Assuming tyhe above were correct, one could fairly easily bolt-in an LS1 using a stock frame with (Doc Rebuild?) side mounts, and pre-fabbed LS1 engine mounts for an early Chevelle or Camaro. Does this seem feasible? I don't think there would be as many oil pan and accessory fitment issues with a C1 as some of the later cars have. If so, this seems like it would be a fairly easy way for a guy wanting an updated drivetrain, but wanting to keep the original frame to swap in an LS1. Wes