Viet Nam Vett

Getting raedy for the BB Conversion using the ZZ454CI/440. The GMPP Web Site tech sheet see below... Recomends a 850 CFM Carb. Now Holly makes an 850 I know..but I'm not a big fan of Holly's.. I'm a Carter fan.. Here's a link to Edelbrock showing there new series AVS...
...Select Carbs from the Left menue and then Thunder Series AVS 800CFM

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/index.html

The biggest they make is an 800 CFM. Now...using the formula from Holly's site
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Engine size (CID) x maximum RPM / 3456 = CFM
CFM @ 100% volumetric efficiency

(Example: 350 CID x 6000 RPM = 2,100,000 / 3456 = 608 CFM)

Approximately 608 CFM would be required for this engine. However, most Street engines are capable of achieving only about 80% VE; a modified street engine with ported heads, headers, intake and carburetor can achieve about 85% VE; a fully modified race engine can achieve 95% or greater VE. The CFM number arrived at with this formula must be factored by this percentage.
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I figured out that @ 6000 RPM I am good to go with a 800CFM. I don't plan on draging the car just cruzing it and Floging it every now and then. So what do you think?? SWC Duke...John Z and all our other Motor guys what's you thoughts?

GMPP ZZ454CI/440 HP Web Page Below http://www.gmpartsdepot.com/store/pr...roduct_ID=1805


:cheers:

Sorry for all the edits but my wireless mouse is freaking out..had to change batteries.


[Modified by Viet Nam Vett, 6:19 PM 4/11/2004]


[Modified by Viet Nam Vett, 6:19 PM 4/11/2004]


[Modified by Viet Nam Vett, 6:20 PM 4/11/2004]


[Modified by Viet Nam Vett, 6:25 PM 4/11/2004]

wesmigletz

Big Blocks are pretty forgiving on carb choices. If you're not gonna be racing, I'd run the smallest carb to meet your engine's needs. You'd probably be fine with a 750, 800 or 850 carb. I know you didn't ask, but Holley makes a vacuum secondary 850 carb that would be nice on the street. Any of the above could be made to run nicely on your 454.

You mentioned you like Edelbrock carbs. I ran an 850 Edelrock Q-Jet on a Caddy 500 and loved it. The throttle response and mileage were great (OK, mileage in a 500 Caddy is a relative term). I'll be running the 850 Q-Jet on my Chevelle's 496 when I fire it up in a couple weeks. Good luck with the swap.

Wes

66427-450

based on your intended use, and the fact that we're talking about a 440HP 454, I'd go with a 780 vac secondary holley (sorry but i'm a holley guy), it'd be about perfect....they really are great carbs, and if you get a GM-type repo the choke would hook right up to your intake (no need for some electric choke rig), you could use a midyear vette air cleaner, etc., it's just a matter of trying different secondary springs to get it just right for you/your gearing.

i don't think the std Edelbrocks come bigger than 750 (which might be ok for you.... i think they made ~540 HP with one on a 454, see their website/dyno results), and they do have a "EPS 800" (800 cfm)......... but again, why not go with what a midyear BB is suppose to have ? a dual feed holley :-)


[Modified by 66427-450, 7:46 PM 4/11/2004]

Hitch

Doesn't it seem from Lar's testing that the BG Speed Demon 850 would be the best of your choices?? Dave..

Viet Nam Vett

Heh Mike Thanks for the reply.I know the Holly is a fine carb but I like simplicity...Vacume Valves and and other items about the Holly such as having to dismantle the cab to jet and the fact that there are gaskets that could leake around the fuel bowl just don't make sence to me when you compare it to a carter type.

I'm sure not all Holly's leak and I know the are used by many a professional and ammature racers and have a good track record. But when you look at the simplicity of the Carter design and the Jet adjustment and the Fuel Bowl design you gotta give it a good look. I've been running Edlelbrock (Carter) Dual 4's on the 65 for the last 6 years with not a boil over or a leake or jet problem. The secondaries have always opened with nery a problem. To me it is a reliable carb.



Your suggestion as far as CFM sounds good..don't want to over CFM the Motor.

:cheers:

Viet Nam Vett

Heh Dave,
Yeh The Lars Special I,m sure it's a great carb. But I'm not a fan of those fule bowls that hang in mid air. 850 CFM I think is a little to big for my application. Don't want a Bog monster off the line... :lol: :cheers:

Viet Nam Vett

Heh Wes...

Yep I had me a few of them there Q Jet's... Great Carb..!! But the New Edelbrock Carter type seems better to me.. :cheers:

66427-450

well if they (edelbrock) made 540HP with it (a 750CFM carter copy), it should be all you need for that 440 HP crate motor.

six-T-six

If you're not constantly making performance mods and tuning for peak performance, I don't think it really matters what brand you go with. I ran a Q-Jet on a big block for awhile and had no problems. I also ran a 750 Holley and it was enough CFM for street use.

JL66REDCPE

Man -- I cant believe you are going to do this -- however good luck. This is a major undertaking in my opinion. I know you are more than capable of doing the work -- it is just why ????

Are we going to do this in Denney's new garage ?????

Brutal64

I know you said you don't like Demon carbs but you might want to check this out anyway. I think they're the best carb out there. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=790972

Viet Nam Vett

Why.....Because we must endeavor to aspire and uphold the fact that as long as we own Non Correct Corvettes we will do our best to put every red cent we have into the fun persuit of skinning our knuckels and getting greasy and cursing at these cars on the weekends and then flog them every now and then.

BB's are fun..Low end Torque is Fun..Blowing Off riser's is fun...and hanging out here and getting info on a planned upgrade is fun. Shelling out money is not fun. But smoking the tires makes up for the shelling out thing.

And the number 1 reason is......Putting in a BB motor is a lot cheaper then buying a Complete BB car.

The front end in my rat needs a rebuild anyway...so I can upgrade to BB springs and parts while it's apart. So..I'll enjoy the summer and start this fall.

Denney's place is to far to go...besides he doesn't know the difference between a "EGR Valve" and A "PVC Valve" :lol:

We will pull the old motor at Rob's Place then trailer the car back here and rip out the front end .. then back to robs for he new motor drop in. Then back here for finishing the rest.. I'll give you a call when we get started we could use your help.. :cheers:

Tyler Townsley

How about another idea.

I have an L 88 top end on my 68.
http://www.sirgalahad.org/tyler/misc...ompartment.jpg

But love the look of the old hilborn mech fi but they are a pain to get right on the street. But in the last year of so there is a group of people who have designed a DIY EFI that can be had for $120 and used to control fuel only. SO started watching ebay and found an old 427 hilborn unit for $400.(Which is cheaper than a good aftermarket EFI manifold)
http://www.sirgalahad.org/tyler/misc/427_intake.jpg

Which I plan on putting efi injectors in in the next few weeks. Then I try out my soldering skills with:
http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html

I also have a 61 that I plan on doing the same thing with. I love those old Hilborn, Kinsler units and with the DIY efi control one can have both worlds.

If you ever wanted to know about converting an old car to EFI this is the site to start with. You may not end up using this unit but you will sure learn a thing or two. In development is a unit that uses a WB O2 for info ALL the time WOT and closed loop. The test vehicle is a chev 350.

Here is a original Kinsler unit (S/N 3 earliest Kinsler unit known to exist) on a 58 Lister Chev. note the base is a early Rochester FI unit.
http://www.sirgalahad.org/tyler/misc/kinsler_3.jpg

Tyler

Viet Nam Vett

Heh Brutal Boy...

That was some fine reading.. That Lars is da man.. My use for this car is just cruzing.. I'm not into super tuning this thing just road cruzing and flogging it every now and then. I just want a nice idol..good acceleration and smooth cruzing at highway speeds.

To bad Lar's isn't in my area..I definitley would get him involved in this project. :thumbs:

Viet Nam Vett

Quote*

well if they (edelbrock) made 540HP with it (a 750CFM carter copy), it should be all you need for that 440 HP crate motor.



six-T-six

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Quote*

If you're not constantly making performance mods and tuning for peak performance, I don't think it really matters what brand you go with. I ran a Q-Jet on a big block for awhile and had no problems. I also ran a 750 Holley and it was enough CFM for street use.

Six-T-Six

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So I should be in the Ball Park with an 800CFM.. :thumbs:

Viet Nam Vett

Heh Tyler,

Man that is cool....That would be a fun project for crazzies like us. Definitly would be the coolest Car at a Vett show. :thumbs:

But..I'm staying with a carb. My 86 is EFI and the 65 is my get a way from the new tech age...But I would like to see pic's as you progress on this project. Keep us posted.. :cheers:

4wdvette

Hey Mark - Been busy with tax season or would have replied sooner. My 66 was originally a small block. When I took it off the road in 1984 - yeah 1984 - I decided to do the big block thing. Did it all up to look original. Still have all the small block stuff up in the garage loft, except the drive train - that is stashed under the work bench for another day.

Build it the way you want, spend lots of money and have a blast!!!

Call or e-mail when you get started. I can schedule some time to give you a hand.

JL66REDCPE

I'll give you a call when we get started we could use your help..

Mark -- just let me know when.

john

six-T-six

I've got the Megasquirt. :) I'm still making my manifold though. I'm using an old tunnel ram and need to make the plenum and weld in the injector bosses. Still need to mod the tank for the pump and return. Unfortunately this project is on the back burner for awhile.

Check out GregP, he's doing what you're talking about with the old style injector manifold on his car.

Viet Nam Vett

Heh Steve..Your ON....!!! I will defenitly call you when I get ready.. :thumbs: