oprahrider

I just had the carb rebuilt and installed it only to find that I had no spark (see last paragraph). So I installed a new "Blue Streak" Points and condeser unit. The engine fires right up but was way off on the adjustment and hardly ran. No big deal, I turn the allenhead clockwise one quarter of a turnand this make the engine run smoothly, so I take her out for a 1 mile spin down the road. WOW! the new points and carb rebuild makes her run great. Lots of mid range hit when you step on it, very crisp. So I pull it back into the driveway very happy with what I just experienced and let her idle for a couple of minutes to watch the temp. Then the engine starts to stumble (for about 5 sec) and then dies. It restarts 2 more times, but each time it just barely runs. Now it won't even start at all. I even shot a little starter fluid down the barrels and turned the key...............nothing, just the starter spinning the engine!............No Spark again..............What did I do wrong?.......did I fry another condeser?...

Oh yeah all this trouble started when the throttle stuck at WOT in the driveway last week. I'd guess 6-7 seconds of 6000+ RPM's. After I killed the ignition and fixed the linkage (my goof) I started it back up it ran rough for 15 seconds then refused to start at all. I thought maybe I blew out the power valve, hence the rebuild...............Sorry to give you the chain of events backwards.......
So what do you think? :crazy:

DansYellow66

That's a tough one. Check the points to make sure the rubbing block didn't get wiped out by lack of lubricant and lost their gap. I would definately try another condensor as the newer ones are rumored to be pretty bad. Also double check the coil wire as it could be a little loose. Good luck. :steering:

REVIVER

Float level settings?
Spark plugs?
:seeya :flag

62fuelie

Do you have the same symptoms with the engine cold? What you are describing sounds a little like a stuck heat riser, or a carb not sufficiently insulated from the manifold, ie percolating the fuel out of the carb after it heats up. This could be way off base, but the statement that it idled in the driveway after being driven for a few minuets and then started acting up leads me in that direction. One possibility to eliminate at least.

One other heat related possibility could be the ballast resistor, or perhaps the coil. Check both sides of the ballast resistor with the switch on to confirm that you are getting voltage. :banghead:

oprahrider

I hate to say it but it was running fine before I started farting around with it (save me the Platitudes, I know)........I just wanted the secondaries to really open.

I was mucking around with the linkage and forgot to put the rod that pushes the secondary butterfly closed when you let off the gas. So when I gave her the full gas by hand the secondaries opened and did not close when I let go of the throttle. Hence the 6-7 seconds of crazy RPM's.

I know mechincally nothing broke but something in the spark dept sure did. I hope the additional information of my foolishness helps in solving this.


[Modified by oprahrider, 9:03 AM 1/4/2004]

JohnZ

Did you set the dwell with a dwell meter, or measure the point gap with a feeler gauge, or just guess at it? If it won't start, set them at .019" on the high point of the point cam and try it again - once you get it running, set it properly with a dwell meter. :thumbs:

oprahrider

No John Z I admitt it was just a SWAG, But it did start and I adjusted it to where it ran really well. Idled smooth & Smoked the tires. My 2 favorites!

Now here is the next chapter:
This morning I went into the gargage and just for giggles I turn the key and to my surprise she fires right up....purrin like a kitten. I see that I am running low on gas so I head out to get a tank full....And almost made it home before she studder for a few seconds and then died. I coasted into a parking lot and remembered words I thought I'd forgot...Lol

The facts are we have a car that will start when stone cold, runs great for about 5-10 minutes, then quits, no signs of spark. This has happened twice now. About the only thing left to replace is the coil and little condenser (?) mounted on the side of the coil.

Do you think my little Over the redline ordeal could have damaged the coil? I always thought they just die and stay dead.

I eagerly await your response.

Bill H.

JohnZ

Heat-related ignition failures are usually the condenser, the coil, or the ballast resistor. Change the condenser first - if it still dies, take a VOM or test light and screwdriver with you, and when it dies, check for power at the coil side of the resistor; if no power, move the wire on the coil side of the resistor to the other end (ignition switch side) of the resistor to get you home, and get a new resistor. If you still have the problem after doing the above, it's probably the coil - they're cheap at NAPA. Also make sure the little black ground wire from the breaker plate to a vacuum advance can screw isn't frayed or broken; it flexes constantly as the breaker plate moves, and is the ground path for the points to trigger the coil. :thumbs:

jimgessner

I like the ground wire flex plate item John.

Let us know the answer please once found.

Plasticman

The ground wire, as JohnZ/Jim stated, but could also be dwell bouncing around all over the place due to a wiped out upper bushing in the dist. Recommend getting a dwell meter, and checking to see if the dwell is "constant" or not.

Plasticman


[Modified by Plasticman, 3:44 PM 1/4/2004]

oprahrider

Hey lets add one more thing to the mix

I found a sticker under the hood that tells me that I have a Caifornia 1973 NOX emmission system installed on my car. The sticker looks like this:

Tune up instructions
This car is equipped with a "Kar Kit" nox control system. The
distributor vaccum spark advance mechinism must remain de-
activated according to special instructions in the owners manual-
engine timing must be set according to the following kar
kit specifications

MFG. SPECS KAR KIT SPECS
1* BTC or more retarded - Same as MFG SPECS
more than 7.5* btc - Set at 1/2 of MFG specs
All other settings - Set at 1* Btc

Adjust carburetor to best lean idle - check cooling system for
leaks, defective cap and plugging every 12,000 miles
air quality products inc. 1973 Pat Pend


I have replaced the points, condeser, coil, and the resistor (took it off my Mopar, couldn't find one at auto parts store) and it was all the same. Runs great from stone cold to warmed up, about 5-10 minutes tops........then it stumbles and dies.........then forget about starting it for 3-4 hours or until it is stone cold again.
Could this NOX system be the culprit?

Dannoman

Hey ORider
I've been following this thread with interest....Have you actually checked for fire at the plug when it's in its 'no start' condition...or are you assuming that there is no spark because it is cranking fine, but not starting....just want to make sure we really have an ignition problem here.

Dannoman

Dannoman

I'd also be interested in knowing if it 'dies' after letting it just sit and idle for 20 mins....not driving the car.

Dannoman

oprahrider

What I did was I pulled a wire out of the distributor, placed a screwdriver inside the now vacant hole moved the wire to with in a mm of the exposed shaft and asked my son to crank it over. There should have been a spark jumping from screwdriver to the wire...........ZIP, NOTHING

For the 2nd part of your question.
Today the car very unceremoniously died on me at about 35 mph. I coasted into a parking lot and called AAA to flatbed me home, bad part of town!...........1 tow down,... 2 to go (you get 3 per year with AAA) I hope I won't need them.

PRNDL

Runs when cold but not when hot? If it was a modern car I would suspect a variety of printed circuitboards that can behave that way. (fuel pump relay :lol: ) Could it be as simple as a bad distributor cap? If you are changing ignition components I would also check the cap. :) I had a brand new AC Delco distributor cap do something similar to me... except I changed it immediately and didn't give it a second chance. MJ

62fuelie

Well, if ya got no spark, start at the ballast resistor and keep checking toward the spark plug until you find where the system has no power. :auto:

Sky65

"What I did was I pulled a wire out of the distributor, placed a screwdriver inside the now vacant hole moved the wire to with in a mm of the exposed shaft and asked my son to crank it over. There should have been a spark jumping from screwdriver to the wire...........ZIP, NOTHING"

Are you pulling the coil wire out of the cap or a plug wire? I would use the coil wire first, then a plug wire if spark is present from the coil. I am not sure about GM but I have had rotors open circuit when they get hot on other brand vehicles.

oprahrider

What exactly does a ballast resistor do? I have replace everything else today. But could not find one of those at Autozone, Kragen, or Pep Boys.....I will try Napa tommorow.

oprahrider

I only did that on a plug wire.

ghostrider20

The ballast resistor is, a resistor. It necks down field voltage to 5 or 6 volts. Of course with any resistance, you will get heat. This is why it is in a ceramic housing. If you look at the underside of the resistor, you will note a fine wire that is coiled.

The purpose of the resistor is to keep the voltage to an acceptable level so as not to burn the points or weld them together if the key is left on.
-This circuit is activated when the ignition switch is in the 'ON" position.


There is a separate ignition circuit that bypasses the "ON" circuit and delivers full battery voltage to the coil. I think this is the purple wire. This is to aid in starting the car by delivering more voltage to the coil. This circuit is activated when the key is in the "START" position.

When the motor fires over and you return the key to the "ON" or "RUN" position the coil is then fed via the ballast resistor circuit.

I would check the coil in your case. If you are not into trouble shooting the components in question are fairly reasonable. I would think a cap, rotor, points, coil and condenser could be had for around $60.00

I would ohm the coil first. I am not sure what the specs are. You could go to the auto parts store and ohm a similar unit. I had an instance a couple of years ago where my coil just died. Nada, nothing. I pulled the COIL wire out of the top of the distributor cap and held it about a half inch from the intake. NO SPARK. It took almost near touching to get a spark. New coil and the spark would jump about 2 inches.

Coil failure can show symptoms like you are experiencing. Or fail and throw in the towel.

Another possibility is loose wires. Check all the ignition leads to and from the coil, the resistor and at the key. A volt ohm meter or test light will work.

My buddies 58 had a loose screw on the resistor and the wire would vibrate and the car would die. Slam the car door and it would fire back up.

Good luck.
Mark



[Modified by ghostrider20, 12:45 AM 1/5/2004]