lemish

:conehead I need some help with some questions about the authenticity of a '67 BB ...

The seller says the engine stamping is T10JC - according to that I am reading in the Corvette Black Book the engine stamping should be 7 characters? (i.e. T0210JC)

Where else should I look for matching casting/date numbers. The seller claims the casting numbers match on everything but the intake - I did NOT see intake number castings listed in the Corvette Black Book - whats the deal?

Does anyone know if a Tan (Saddle) or Beige soft top was a factory top color option with Goodwood Green color paint - the Corvette Black book doesn't list it?

How common is a 427/400 with factory air conditioning?

Next to the L88, the 427/400 seems to be the least ordered engine option - why is that (is there any downside to this engine)?

Please :confused: anyone who wants to call and help me decipher all this before I spend my hard earned cash can call the phone number listed in my forum signature.

allanb63roadster

I'm looking in my pocket NCRS guide.
I show a Dark Green paint, code 983.
It shows white, black, or dark teal blue for the convertible top colors.

Just checked my Illustrated Buyer's Guide, written by the same guy that did the Black Book, Mike Antonick and he says Goodwood Green for code 983 and the same 3 colors for the top.

I checked my Black Book also. If it was a 427 / 400 engine with air conditioning, wouldn't the engine code suffix be 'JF' for manual trans with air, or 'JG' for auto trans with air? My version shows 427 / 400 with manual trans with a suffix of 'JC'.

hope that helps

[Modified by allanb63roadster, 10:00 PM 9/25/2003]


[Modified by allanb63roadster, 10:21 PM 9/25/2003]

lemish

[QUOTE]It shows white, black, or dark teal blue for the convertible top colors.

hope that helps
[QUOTE]

Yep, thanks - agreed on that one. Seems a lot of people are doing the tan top lately, I just wanted to be sure I wasn't crazy.

Now if someone can help me out with the other questions too,

allanb63roadster

sorry, I edited my first post with additional info instead of a new reply. If you refresh your browser or go out and come back in, you'll see my comments on the engine suffix code.

396 RAT

"How common is a 427/400 with factory air conditioning"?
There were 2101 L68's total. (229) coupes and (199) L68 verts came with air.

"Next to the L88, the 427/400 seems to be the least ordered engine option why is that (is there any downside to this engine)?"
Maybe because the xtra 10 HP was $105.00 over the 390HP L36?
and another $135.00 got you the 435HP car? Just a guess.
Dont forget the (16) L89's.......more rare than the (20) L88'S........

:lurk:

lemish

How about the trim tag - would it tell me what color the original soft top was?

lemish

I just looked at my book again - and youre right. I knew there had to be something fishy with this car. I think we just uncovered it. Thanks.

JohnZ

Don't confuse "AIR" and A/C - they're different. '67 427/400 engines with or without air conditioning were the same code - A/C made no difference in the engine. A.I.R. (K-19 Air Injection, California cars) WAS a different engine code. There were only four 427/400 codes:

JC - 4-Speed
JF - 4-Speed w/K19
JD - Powerglide
JG - Powerglide w/K19

If it has less than seven digits, it's a bad restamp. The 427/400 intake was casting #3894382. :thumbs:

allanb63roadster

quote:
Don't confuse "AIR" and A/C - they're different. '67 427/400 engines with or without air conditioning were the same code - A/C made no difference in the engine. A.I.R. (K-19 Air Injection, California cars) WAS a different engine code. There were only four 427/400 codes:
endquote

I see that now, thanks for making it clearer. In the Black Book, 'ac' is air conditioning' and 'ar' is for air injector.

But since you also pointed out that it should have 7 digits in the stamp, there is still an area that could cause concern. Maybe it's just an error in reading it or in writing it down?

lemish

Okay - this car is back on my radar screen then... its T1010JC

Attached is a photo of the casting - the J in the stamping looks a bit funny to me, but I've never seen one of these before so I dont know if this is what it is supposed to look like - someone jump in here?

Also, what about my trim tag question above?

The intake casting number he gave me was 3894374 - if everything else is correct, is this a big issue?

There is no documentation that this is the original engine - who is a stamping expert - if youre reading this and viewing the photo - please reply!!! :banghead:

67 Fuelie

This stuff will make you crazy..... :nono:

JohnZ

I don't like the "tilt" of the "JC" characters - they should be in line with the "T1010" characters, and I don't like the two different font sizes in the VIN derivative - all seven digits of the VIN derivative are ALWAYS the same font, and the "663" is a different size than the "7104" (I'm assuming the last six digits of the car's VIN on the plate under the glove box are 104663, if it matches).

There's nothing on the trim tag to indicate the top color, but the only top colors available in '67 were black, white, and dark teal blue (no saddle).

The intake number he gave you is for the square-port 427/435 manifold, which would be a mis-match with the oval-port heads (3909802) on a 427/400; the 427/435 had 3904391 square-port heads and used the 3894374 square-port intake.

May be a re-stamp with the wrong intake.
:rolleyes:

lemish

:confused: What I don't understand with all this stamping stuff is:

How do you tell if its something that they ground down in St Louis and corrected at the factory or if someone is trying to pull a fast one? I assume you don't! :skep:

And furthermore, if someone is going to go to the trouble to re-stamp these things - why don't they do a little better job of perfecting the artwork so to speak? :crazy:

396 RAT

"How do you tell if its something that they ground down in St Louis and corrected at the factory"
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sorry, could not help myself........
I would walk, if you are interested in an orig. car.
Or if its priced as an orig car.
If its priced right, and you don't care about originality go for it!
Just don't talk your self into it as being orig. and paying the price
of an original car.
Confront the owner and see what he says.
Don't argue, just see if he folds or stands his ground.
A good indication as to the car and seller.

lemish

Laugh all you want - both the experts Adams and Antonick books say it has happened (numbers ground down and restamped at the factory.)

Anyway - I apprectaite your help and all the info from everyone. Unfortunatley at 65k, I feel the car is priced well above 'right' and a bit below 'original' in my opinion.

I will have to wait for a friend to get back from NCRS in Oregon if I am going to persue this further. Unless there is someone near Greenville or Clemson, SC - who wants to go take a look at the car for me. :D

396 RAT

Maybe you missed this?

"all seven digits of the VIN derivative are ALWAYS the same font, and the "663" is a different size than the "7104"

Not laughing at you, I just know how it is when you get the "Bug"
For 65K, it had better be right.

LT1driver

67 427/400 with airconditioning is fairly rare, 427/400 also not a great number made, check block casting date to see if block right for car build date, also intake if wrong sounds bad since no reason for this to be square port on oval port motor????? check it very very careful for that price.

Viking427

...agreed, and from the pic the assembly stamp appears too close to the head for a gang holder (UAW's best needed a wider berth when swinging their 2 lb sledge anyhow :D ).


"don't like the "tilt" of the "JC" characters - they should be in line with the "T1010" characters, and I don't like the two different font sizes in the VIN derivative - all seven digits of the VIN derivative are ALWAYS the same font, and the "663" is a different size than the "7104" (I'm assuming the last six digits of the car's VIN on the plate under the glove box are 104663, if it matches)"

JohnZ

The position of the engine plant stamp is perfectly normal for a BB - Tonawanda stamped the pad before the heads were on due to the plug at the front of the head interfering with the gang-stamp holder. However, both the engine plant stamp and the assembly plant VIN stamp on this engine are flaky.

Yup, VIN stamp errors were made occasionally, but when that occurred, the entire VIN was X'd out (XXXXXXX) and it was stamped again adjacent to the X's. If the engine plant made a stamping error, they just ground the pad with a 3" wheel and stamped it over again. :thumbs:

Rocs96

mick, send me a better picture of the pad so I can see the broach marks. also, have you asked them for a copy or verification of the tank sticker?