396 RAT

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=639309

GM has not stood still for the past 40 years.
(and thats good)
Cars are better today, no question.
But the masses of corvette owners know nothing of their past.
Few have ever been in solid lifter BB vette.
And most owners of these cars today just putt them around.
Solid lifter BB vettes with decent stock gears modern tires and headers
are EASY 13 second 1/4 mile cars, with 0-60 in the 5 second range.
Why is it, so few know this? :confused:
Also, why is it such a big deal that owners of new corvettes are so proud
that their cars are as fast, or slightly faster than cars produced almost 40 years ago? :crazy:
Not trying to drag this out, just don't get it?
Thoughts?


[Modified by 396 RAT, 8:08 PM 8/29/2003]

RichF

My opinion is that even if they are faster and perform better, they are just not as much pure FUN to drive :D I have to admit, my wife and I just bought a 2004 Convertible, and although it is not a Z06, it had plenty of pep!! My feeling is that it may take my '66 BB in the 1/4.. not sure, but the '66 is much more thrilling to drive....

67's

Midyear, were are you when we need you to set theese guys straight.


Tom

Cal Vette

:yesnod: I once had a small block 72 LT1 ! :D

JWD01

Okay Rat, Let's smoke the peace pipe and get our sh_t together. You basically said it in your first statement. I love the old cars (I've owned many and still do). There is nothing better than a rumpty dumpty idle at 1100 RPM. My LS6 Chevelle was incredible (all my BB Corvettes had hyd. cams),BUT they were all still a pain to drive compared to todays cars. Todays performance is equal to or better than the old days but alot more user friendly ( softer clutches for us old farts with bad knees, etc.). Most cars are special to its owner (be it a classic Corvette or even a fart can equipped Honda). Sorry if I offended you with any of my posts (sometimes influenced with rum and cokes). Let's not argue over who's best- but let's agree that Corvettes are one of the greatest cars made. :cheers:

midyear

Rat,

I am with you. I am only 37, have had alot of vettes and my choice is hands down an BB C2. as for the solid lifter cars, no doubts but they were the fastest vettes made. Last year at carlisle I street raced a black Z06 w/my black L89 coupe after he continued to bother me light after light. on skinny redlines I had an easy 8-10 cars on him by mid 3rd gear, he was so embarassed, he would not even pull up next to me at the next few lights. He had 2 C5 budies behind him just pointing and laughing at him.

I have had my mild yellow 67 convert down the strip well over 60 times and have yet to lose to a C5, even at corvette drag functions, and it has only gone 13.20's, relatively slow for a good BB vette.

I think alot boils down to who owns these cars. I see a group of C1, 2, 3 owners who will buy a C5 and like them as a great car just with no personality. and I see first time corvette owners buy a C5 and not know how or why it got to be such a great car, or what corvette history is about, and run around on a huge power trip, trying to see how many accesories you can ad to a car in order to try and stand out. I guess I am just old school, but the sound of a good carb opening up under power gives me a rush that a modern FI car just cant match.

For a laugh, here is a link to a video of my 4875lb 70 GTO wagon, 400, auto, 2.56 axle, giving a 2001 lightning 3 car lengths and let him leave when ready (no flag). I still come by at the end to win the race, in a 2.5 ton beast. The street is the finish, notice the time on the video.

http://www.allmusclecars.com/video/wagon%20video.mpg


[Modified by midyear, 1:29 PM 8/30/2003]

motro

I call it the "gunslinger" theory. We all think we are the fastest guns and everytime someone says "draw" we can't resist.

Well, as you know, even the fastest gunslingers eventually end up dead so the smartest ones limited their gunfights.

Using the metaphor, I don't race anyone in the Vette. I know I could win most races, but I don't need to prove that my 40 year old car is faster than their brand new Honda 2000 or whatever. I know it and don't care if they don't. I also don't need to break something that's going to take weeks and hundreds of dollars to order from across the country. I did that three weeks ago with the Muncie.

But, all that said, it is fun to race someone once in a while to prove a point. The car I do that most often in is the Grand National. I don't know if I've ever owned any car quicker to 60 than this one. I'll lose many races at the top end, but off the line, the car just jumps.

A lot of kids know about the Grand National so they want to test it. They're prepared to lose, they just want to see how fast it is.

The Vette is the most fun to drive with the Buick and the Z right behind. The Buick can be a bear to fix, but a lot easier to find parts.

The Z, with 80k mileage, is bullet proof. No problems except for an air pump.

Cars are much better today as far as durability, but the Vette, well, that's, again, the car that get's the most waves and "will you sell it?" comments :D :D


[Modified by motro, 5:40 AM 8/30/2003]

66427-450

You asked for thoughts, so…..

Spec Hi Performance BB in a midyear - It’s raw power, simply raw power…. loud, rough, brutal actually. You get the sense that it’s more power than the car can handle (suspension, drive train, tires, etc), and you know what?, you’re right!…… that leaves you with the challenge of wrestling with it, like going hand-to-hand with a lion. Trying to move one around a high-speed track under full power, or control one during full throttle acceleration, is a handful, to say the least. Those of you that have not driven one, and felt the 500 HP at 7000 RPMs overwhelm every one of your 5 senses, have no idea. Call it Macho, call it Manly, call it Primal, call it Crazy, whatever… but driving one of these at the edge is way more than “exciting”, certainly not for the timid, or limp wristed. It’s kind’a like the intense rush you get during a good street fight, or when the ball is hiked during the last play in a big tied-score football game, and you’re called upon to run the ball up the middle for the 10 yards needed to win (and the linebacker know you’re coming).

The newer cars are much more civalized; easy to drive (I drive one everyday), plush and comfortable, with power steering, automatic climate control systems, fancy sound systems, computor controled braking and traction control, etc., etc. Are they nice? Sure…. pretty fast?, yeah sure. But, absolutly no comparison to the above.

66427-450

Very enlightened for a 37 year old kid :) You can play on my team any day :thumbs:

PS: Midyear - That black L-89 coupe is a great looking car, sounds fast, 3.70 gears?

Viet Nam Vett

...... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Forum Wars......... :lol: :lol: :lol:

90 droptop

396...
Respect has nothing to do with it. This started because someone asked if a c-2 350/350 was faster than a c-5. The answer is NO!!!!

I've owned and driven all kinds of Vette's. I CHOOSE to drive a 11 sec. c-5 because it's a superior car. Nobody is disrespecting older Vette's. They were great cars back in the day, they still are. They look good, sound good and are quick, but lets be real here. From a performance standpoint, and that is what Corvette's are about. They just don't stand up anymore.

Have a nice day, drive safe and try to wave. I do, to all years. :seeya :chevy :flag

Silver65

To answer 90's original question - is a stock C-2 327/350 faster than a C5? No. I have one, and can attest to that. A mid to high 14s is probably the best you'd get out of it.
However, 396 is right too - I have actually witnessed an unmodified (except for tires) 427 BB blow the pants off of a Z06 in the 1/4. Does a Z06 have better handling and top end? Absolutely.
But be careful what you say about not being able to stand up to today's performance - while the C-5 are going to come out on top, those of you who've never had the pleasure of driving one might be very surprised at how well these old Vette's hold up. The ride is stiffer, but they hold the road a lot better than you'd think - at least as well as some of the modern cars I've driven recently.
Just my .02. :seeya

Hitch

Ya I got blasted over there too... Oh well, I guess at the ripe ole age of 28 I'm now a fuddy duddy b/c I like old cars better than new ones. Plus it's still fun even w/ a SB to walk the dog on some of these guys at stop lights... Dave..

Jeff Garner

I'm pretty sure a C5 will toast my SB 66, but in the end I'll still be the one cruising in the midyear convertible, that I work on and paid for.
The C5's are great performance cars, but too common, and resemble the Firebird. I guess if I wanted a C5 I could go finance one for 5 or 6 years and trade it in when it's 1/2 paid for and 1/2 depreciated.

66427-450

Sounds hot, obviously not a stock c-5, want'a drag a old (also modified) inferior 10 second c-2 BB? I think I know where you could find one :)

Seriously guys, we're all on the same team ! ....... let's prey on fords and mopars (including vipers)..... The BB midyears can deal with the Hemi Roadrunners, and you computer car guys can have your way with the Vipers! Deal?

90 droptop

Sure, I pick the location, no trailers allowed. :D

(quote)

I'm pretty sure a C5 will toast my SB 66, but in the end I'll still be the one cruising in the midyear convertible, that I work on and paid for.
The C5's are great performance cars, but too common, and resemble the Firebird. I guess if I wanted a C5 I could go finance one for 5 or 6 years and trade it in when it's 1/2 paid for and 1/2 depreciated.
(quote)

Jeff, both my c-5's are paid for, along with my 70, what's your point? BTW, there was a time when c-2's were a dime a dozen.




[Modified by 90 droptop, 8:56 AM 8/30/2003]

62fuelie

I recently traded off one of my three Vettes. It was not the C1 or the C2. Let's guess, could it have been the C5 ragtop that was so much fun to drive that it accumulated 18K miles in 6 years?

66427-450

[QUOTE]
I think I know where you could find one :)

Sure, I pick the location, no trailers allowed. :D

[QUOTE]

:lol: Once you get into significantly "modified" vettes, and have 600 or more HP under the hood, and proper gearing, they're all are rockets in the 1/4, it don't matter if it's a C-2, a C-4,5, or whatever, it's more the "set-up/tuning" than the vintage. Remember, for every fast car, there is always one out there that is just a bit faster......

:seeya

396 RAT

I am not the defender of "old cars"
But to read here on the forum that I should be fearful of being blown off the road by every Honda car out there, and statements like "no BB mid year goes
0-60 in under 6 seconds" got me to thinking?
Even with the Ti retarded for pump gas, and stock 11-1 comp, with the stock solid cam, and factory 4.11 posi, it will be it will be a cold day when any of the above comes true.
I guess I just wanted to set the record straight.
Forum wars? I don't think so. Just trying to educate the new breed of Corvette owner. Unfortunately, most of these "old" cars just get putted around these days. And few have retained their ground pounding powerplants.
I was just surprised how little some know about their cars history.
And was a bit insulted by their ignorance. :lurk:

67ratrag

Well I added my .02 there on the C5 forum. But Mom, they started it!