I may have to sell my 58, price help needed.
05-19-2003, 03:20 PM
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I may have to sell my 58, price help needed.
Looks like I may need to sell my 58 :cry The car is a project car. It is a NOM it currently has a 350 in it and a 4 speed. The 350 is suppossed to be a 350hp motor from 69. I have not run the numbers as there are some brackets in the way so they're hard to get to. The body is very straight but there is evidence of old bar glass inside the front wheel wells. The car sat in dry storage in FL for about 27 yrs. The man I bought it from had started to remove chrome and sand the black paint. The interior was modified in the 60's so it will need new door panels and arm rests, carpet, kick panels, and guage houseing(usable but has extra holes cut out). Frame is very straight with surface rust. I have some NOS chrome for the coves. The car does not have front license chrome or bumperettes. I have the front and rear bumpers and the trunk spears. In the pictures the car has 64 vette seats in it. Those have been removed and replaced with correct 58 frames and springs. All in all this is a very easy project with someone that wants a good driver. It would require more effort and parts replacement for show quality. The car is 95% complete.
I also have a 3737739 casting block if someone prefers. I would be more than willing to remove the 350.
I feel the car is worth between $17500-20000. I could really use some educated opinions. I know that 58's have been going up rather nicely and are not readily available. If I am forced to sell it I want to price it correctly...Thanks Kyle
[Modified by Kyle69-71 BBs, 4:44 PM 5/19/2003]
I also have a 3737739 casting block if someone prefers. I would be more than willing to remove the 350.
I feel the car is worth between $17500-20000. I could really use some educated opinions. I know that 58's have been going up rather nicely and are not readily available. If I am forced to sell it I want to price it correctly...Thanks Kyle
[Modified by Kyle69-71 BBs, 4:44 PM 5/19/2003]
05-20-2003, 08:15 AM
#2
Safety Car
Re: I may have to sell my 58, price help needed. (Kyle69-71 BBs)
The body is very straight but there is evidence of old bar glass inside the front wheel wells.
A few other questions:
What transmission is in the car and do you know if it is the original?
Does it have a soft top frame? Condition?
Condition of windshield and side glass?
What is the condition of the chrome and stainless trim?
Are the gauges original and do you know if they are in working condition?
Wonderbar Radio?
Is the steering wheel original?
Does the engine run?
Thanks,
Charles
05-20-2003, 08:31 AM
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Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '06
Re: I may have to sell my 58, price help needed. (cbernhardt)
Pics and description result in a $12,500 car, in my opinion. More correct parts or better condition would result in a higher estimate. :rolleyes:
05-20-2003, 08:38 AM
#4
Melting Slicks
Re: I may have to sell my 58, price help needed. (Kyle69-71 BBs)
Probably depends on how quickly you want to sell it. If you are interested in a quick sale, something more along the $15K price range would attract more buyers. It is going to take a lot of work and money to make a pretty nice and reasonably correct driver out of this car and a lot more for a real correct resto.
05-20-2003, 06:18 PM
#5
Re: I may have to sell my 58, price help needed. (Kyle69-71 BBs)
It's really a crap-shoot right now, but I agree that you're going to have to reduce your expectations.
While talking to collector car owners and looking at the complete old car market, one thing is for certain: project car values have taken a beating. In fact, many restored cars overall have taken a beating (such as C3 Corvettes, Mercedes 230/250/280SLs, pre-1980 Porsche 911s etc...) Pretty much every other car has pulled a little back at least a little.
The only cars that have bucked the trend and have increased in value in the last 18 months are 67-69 Camaros (which are trading hands for more than '68 and '69 Corvettes!) BUT...this doesn't apply to project cars, where even '69 RS/SS Camaros have taken a beating.
With that said, if your car actually ran and had a ripped-up, but functional interior, you'd be looking at your original price range. Since the car needs pretty much everything, you're looking at finding the small group of enthusiasts that have time and money to complete the project.
Now it comes down to "how fast do you need to sell?" If you have to sell in 60 days, then expect to sell for up to 35% less than if you can wait 6-8 months. I purchased two C3s this last year from two different people, because I knew both owners needed to sell ASAP. Two running, driving roadsters (one big block, one small block) with acceptable interiors and exteriors for $13,500 TOTAL. Book values said I should have paid $30,000, but there just weren't any buyers during the time period in which they needed to sell.
So just by your description, $12,500 seems like a reasonable price given what's out there for sale right now. You might get more, and you might get less if you absolutely need to sell now. It also depends where you advertise, and if you're in a Corvette-Crazy area. The Seattle area loves C2s, but doesn't get excited about C1 or C3s, plus add the 7% unemployment, and you're talking about a bad environment for Corvette guys like us to sell our projects. Heck, I saw a similar project sell for around $7500 here (I would have jumped on it, but it sold before I had a chance to look at it.)
So I guess my suggestion is: if you can wait the bad economy out, do it!
Or you can hope that guys like us who are willing to pay a little more will do so with your car. We value Corvettes more than the open market right now.
While talking to collector car owners and looking at the complete old car market, one thing is for certain: project car values have taken a beating. In fact, many restored cars overall have taken a beating (such as C3 Corvettes, Mercedes 230/250/280SLs, pre-1980 Porsche 911s etc...) Pretty much every other car has pulled a little back at least a little.
The only cars that have bucked the trend and have increased in value in the last 18 months are 67-69 Camaros (which are trading hands for more than '68 and '69 Corvettes!) BUT...this doesn't apply to project cars, where even '69 RS/SS Camaros have taken a beating.
With that said, if your car actually ran and had a ripped-up, but functional interior, you'd be looking at your original price range. Since the car needs pretty much everything, you're looking at finding the small group of enthusiasts that have time and money to complete the project.
Now it comes down to "how fast do you need to sell?" If you have to sell in 60 days, then expect to sell for up to 35% less than if you can wait 6-8 months. I purchased two C3s this last year from two different people, because I knew both owners needed to sell ASAP. Two running, driving roadsters (one big block, one small block) with acceptable interiors and exteriors for $13,500 TOTAL. Book values said I should have paid $30,000, but there just weren't any buyers during the time period in which they needed to sell.
So just by your description, $12,500 seems like a reasonable price given what's out there for sale right now. You might get more, and you might get less if you absolutely need to sell now. It also depends where you advertise, and if you're in a Corvette-Crazy area. The Seattle area loves C2s, but doesn't get excited about C1 or C3s, plus add the 7% unemployment, and you're talking about a bad environment for Corvette guys like us to sell our projects. Heck, I saw a similar project sell for around $7500 here (I would have jumped on it, but it sold before I had a chance to look at it.)
So I guess my suggestion is: if you can wait the bad economy out, do it!
Or you can hope that guys like us who are willing to pay a little more will do so with your car. We value Corvettes more than the open market right now.
05-20-2003, 08:01 PM
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Burning Brakes
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Re: I may have to sell my 58, price help needed. (Kyle69-71 BBs)
I would agree with the 12-15K figure for what you describe and what I see. When you say "easy project" what do you mean? From my experience there is no such thing. Look and sounds like it needs everything. Why don't you take the engine, trans and suspension from that 95 and put it in the 58??? That would solve both problems :D
Nick
Nick
05-20-2003, 11:05 PM
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Re: I may have to sell my 58, price help needed. (Nick D.)
Hi,
Let me try to cover some things. First by bar glass I mean old boat technology, green fiberglass that came in bars. I cant really even tell why anyone even put it on the car. I assume if I strip the paint to the gel coat I would probably find out. My thought was that they might have been trying to reinforce the front wheel wells, which is a weak spot generally speaking. I have not checked to see if the 4 speed is original. The original guages are still in the car. But the tach appears to be from a 59. I was planning on rebuilding them so I havent even checked to see if they work. The car has its wonderbar radio. I also have the original steering wheel. The bumpers need to be rechromed. The metal bright work(nonchrome) could all be buffed. I got the motor running with no problem. I was also able to free up the brakes, so the car roles just fine. As a matter of course I would replace the fuel lines and gas tank. It also has the conv. frame which will need to be restored. I believe that everything on the frame should be usable except for one bracket that I would replace. The door glass on the car is nice, but the windshield does have a crack, so it should be replaced.
Sammy.....I just have to totally disagree with you :D We both know you basically stole those c3's. You were lucky to find two people stupid enough to rob themselves. I really dont think the c3 market is soft. If anything I would say its getting stronger all the time. If you dont believe me, look at the 73 to early 80's vettes. They used to change hands for about $3000. for a decent car, most people are now asking alot more than that. I would have no problem getting $12000-15000 out of either of those rag tops that you bought. Around here you cannot touch RS SS Camaros, BB Chevelles, BB Vettes, etc. Generally speaking 67-72 muscle cars that are clean are bringing good money and are getting harder to find all the time...
Nick..... Why do I say this is a easy resto? Basically because, with the exception of the original motor, its pretty much all there. The car was stored extremely well. The condition that it survived in, makes it a easy car to restore... It did not sit out in the elements. The fiberglass is in remarkably good condition. I have owned 5 c3's and its body is in better shape than most of them... I havent found any soft spots, baked spots, delaminating, etc... Alot of the things that need to be replaced, interior for example, are often replaced to bring classic cars to a higher standard of appearance. So it doesnt matter if they are rough or just decent, because most people typically replace them if they are not nice to excellent.... As for switching the motors out... why ruin 2 vettes? :reddevil
I have done cars that need more work than this one in less than a year. My plan for this one was going to be 3 years and that is more because of money than any other reason.. I believe it can be done for around $10000. Please keep in mind that I do everything myself.. So I am not paying anyone any labor.. Maybe I should put all the chrome back on the car and take better pictures.
I do really appreciate the feedback... Keep them coming....Thanks Kyle
Let me try to cover some things. First by bar glass I mean old boat technology, green fiberglass that came in bars. I cant really even tell why anyone even put it on the car. I assume if I strip the paint to the gel coat I would probably find out. My thought was that they might have been trying to reinforce the front wheel wells, which is a weak spot generally speaking. I have not checked to see if the 4 speed is original. The original guages are still in the car. But the tach appears to be from a 59. I was planning on rebuilding them so I havent even checked to see if they work. The car has its wonderbar radio. I also have the original steering wheel. The bumpers need to be rechromed. The metal bright work(nonchrome) could all be buffed. I got the motor running with no problem. I was also able to free up the brakes, so the car roles just fine. As a matter of course I would replace the fuel lines and gas tank. It also has the conv. frame which will need to be restored. I believe that everything on the frame should be usable except for one bracket that I would replace. The door glass on the car is nice, but the windshield does have a crack, so it should be replaced.
Sammy.....I just have to totally disagree with you :D We both know you basically stole those c3's. You were lucky to find two people stupid enough to rob themselves. I really dont think the c3 market is soft. If anything I would say its getting stronger all the time. If you dont believe me, look at the 73 to early 80's vettes. They used to change hands for about $3000. for a decent car, most people are now asking alot more than that. I would have no problem getting $12000-15000 out of either of those rag tops that you bought. Around here you cannot touch RS SS Camaros, BB Chevelles, BB Vettes, etc. Generally speaking 67-72 muscle cars that are clean are bringing good money and are getting harder to find all the time...
Nick..... Why do I say this is a easy resto? Basically because, with the exception of the original motor, its pretty much all there. The car was stored extremely well. The condition that it survived in, makes it a easy car to restore... It did not sit out in the elements. The fiberglass is in remarkably good condition. I have owned 5 c3's and its body is in better shape than most of them... I havent found any soft spots, baked spots, delaminating, etc... Alot of the things that need to be replaced, interior for example, are often replaced to bring classic cars to a higher standard of appearance. So it doesnt matter if they are rough or just decent, because most people typically replace them if they are not nice to excellent.... As for switching the motors out... why ruin 2 vettes? :reddevil
I have done cars that need more work than this one in less than a year. My plan for this one was going to be 3 years and that is more because of money than any other reason.. I believe it can be done for around $10000. Please keep in mind that I do everything myself.. So I am not paying anyone any labor.. Maybe I should put all the chrome back on the car and take better pictures.
I do really appreciate the feedback... Keep them coming....Thanks Kyle
05-21-2003, 12:46 AM
#8
Re: I may have to sell my 58, price help needed. (Kyle69-71 BBs)
I think you missed my point... yes I "stole" those cars. No doubt, but I was making a point regarding the "what you'll get depends on how much time you have." If those guys had more time and savvy, they could have sold the '69 for $15K and the white '70 for $12.5K easily.
As for values in general: Nice RS and SS Camaros are flying (as I said - they are bucking the trend.) But, I think if you'll look at regional sales of projects (not asking prices, but what they are actually selling for) even Camaros are hurting. There are two Camaro projects here in the area that have been for sale for 6 months. One is a good RS runner, #s match, 327/4spd car with just a little rust repair req'd to the rear quarter. His asking price was $8K, now $5500. Another one is a true muscle car: #s match 350/4spd, no rust, bench seats (rare in a V8 car.) Asking $6K with no takers. Even though other Camaros needing no repairs are selling in hours (for more than 68 and 69 Corvettes,) "projects" are getting killed.
Original Big Block Chevelles are still selling, but well below their peaks of three years ago. Just check auctions and do a little leg work asking what actually selling prices are. C3s are still really soft, and that can be chalked up to a long production run (cars from 1982 are not considered collectable or classic yet, just used) and a poor economy, and somewhat of a "disco" image. Sure, matching#s big blocks sell well, but at a small fraction of a C2's price. You can buy post '74 C3 coupes at under $5K all day. (At least in the northwest.) Special RPO cars are obviously excluded.
Also keep in mind that right now the market is flooded with cars that appeal to the 50+ year olds. Heck, in Olympia area alone (100,000 people) there are -three- '57 T-birds for sale (all different owners.) People have been forced to either retire early (forced by their companies) or they have lost so much of their retirement that they're selling toys and going back to work. Since the 50's cars are most popular with the 50+ crowd, they have been hard hit. 1940s cars have been killed!!! I know a lot of guys sitting on 1930s cars who are literally sweating that their 6 (and sometimes 7) figure investments are going to take huge hits, since all the guys who like to buy them are dying or losing their retirement shirts!
Since not a lot of the C1/C2 forum spends any time in the other forums (and I've just started hanging out in the C1/C2 section--I'm going to look to sell the '69 for a C1 or C2 at some point in the distant future...) I'll explain that I get my information from my job: I'm a classic car columnist. I write about old cars for a living, and therefore spend a lot of time talking to people nationally about what they bought, sold and how much their cars went for.
And we're just trying to help you set your expectations. You can always ask as much as you want, and take the highest you're offered.
At the end of the day, feel free to disagree with me, or anyone else. None of us should be so bold to think we're always right. And for me, if my sources are wrong, then I'll sometimes be wrong. And when it comes to prices of cars, it depends where you are, where you advertise, what time of the year, how long before you need to sell and how many similar cars are on the market. Those are a lot of variables all creating a HUGE swing. Could you get $20K for your car? Sure, but not likely. Can you get $12,500? Probably. If you advertised for $10K? Sold in two weeks or less.
But again, that's just my opinion, and I reserve the right to be wrong! ;)
As for values in general: Nice RS and SS Camaros are flying (as I said - they are bucking the trend.) But, I think if you'll look at regional sales of projects (not asking prices, but what they are actually selling for) even Camaros are hurting. There are two Camaro projects here in the area that have been for sale for 6 months. One is a good RS runner, #s match, 327/4spd car with just a little rust repair req'd to the rear quarter. His asking price was $8K, now $5500. Another one is a true muscle car: #s match 350/4spd, no rust, bench seats (rare in a V8 car.) Asking $6K with no takers. Even though other Camaros needing no repairs are selling in hours (for more than 68 and 69 Corvettes,) "projects" are getting killed.
Original Big Block Chevelles are still selling, but well below their peaks of three years ago. Just check auctions and do a little leg work asking what actually selling prices are. C3s are still really soft, and that can be chalked up to a long production run (cars from 1982 are not considered collectable or classic yet, just used) and a poor economy, and somewhat of a "disco" image. Sure, matching#s big blocks sell well, but at a small fraction of a C2's price. You can buy post '74 C3 coupes at under $5K all day. (At least in the northwest.) Special RPO cars are obviously excluded.
Also keep in mind that right now the market is flooded with cars that appeal to the 50+ year olds. Heck, in Olympia area alone (100,000 people) there are -three- '57 T-birds for sale (all different owners.) People have been forced to either retire early (forced by their companies) or they have lost so much of their retirement that they're selling toys and going back to work. Since the 50's cars are most popular with the 50+ crowd, they have been hard hit. 1940s cars have been killed!!! I know a lot of guys sitting on 1930s cars who are literally sweating that their 6 (and sometimes 7) figure investments are going to take huge hits, since all the guys who like to buy them are dying or losing their retirement shirts!
Since not a lot of the C1/C2 forum spends any time in the other forums (and I've just started hanging out in the C1/C2 section--I'm going to look to sell the '69 for a C1 or C2 at some point in the distant future...) I'll explain that I get my information from my job: I'm a classic car columnist. I write about old cars for a living, and therefore spend a lot of time talking to people nationally about what they bought, sold and how much their cars went for.
And we're just trying to help you set your expectations. You can always ask as much as you want, and take the highest you're offered.
At the end of the day, feel free to disagree with me, or anyone else. None of us should be so bold to think we're always right. And for me, if my sources are wrong, then I'll sometimes be wrong. And when it comes to prices of cars, it depends where you are, where you advertise, what time of the year, how long before you need to sell and how many similar cars are on the market. Those are a lot of variables all creating a HUGE swing. Could you get $20K for your car? Sure, but not likely. Can you get $12,500? Probably. If you advertised for $10K? Sold in two weeks or less.
But again, that's just my opinion, and I reserve the right to be wrong! ;)
05-21-2003, 07:01 AM
#10
Safety Car
Re: I may have to sell my 58, price help needed. (Kyle69-71 BBs)
Kyle:
Let me know if you decide to sell your '58. I would have to see the car before I could tell you what it would be worth to me.
Thanks,
Charles
Let me know if you decide to sell your '58. I would have to see the car before I could tell you what it would be worth to me.
Thanks,
Charles
05-21-2003, 11:42 PM
#11
Re: I may have to sell my 58, price help needed. (WilliamHall)
C1s in good running shape are holding up well, actually. Being an "icon" car helps loads. The Blue-Flame six cars have seemed to slip a little, mostly because they are what we'd consider a niche car. Most people have never seen a '53-'55 Corvette, so when they think early Corvette, they think '57-'61 red with white coves... (performance guys like the '62 -- but the uneducated buyers out there will take white coves vs. larger engine, while the performance guys will pay a premium for the 327.) Basically, the crazy premiums people were paying, ie $80K+ for fuellies and $55K+ for a non fuellie '57 in non-concours condition are gone, but the average prices are holding well in the mid-$30K range (higher for higher-point cars, lower for drivers with some finish work required.) It's the project cars that are getting killed.
C2s are still hot, with any factory 396 or 427 cars getting the premiums, albeit if you check auction results, the hammer prices are down about 15-20 percent on even the desireable high-hp cars. (So you're saying "why did you say they're still hot?") The average sales price of a C2 is still very strong, and has caught-up to the C1s, for the most part. '64 is still the bargain, trading at several thousand below '63 or '65. People just want to say "I have the first year of the Stingray" or they want the shark-finned '65-'67s.
What gets me is that you can buy a great smallblock '68 or '69 coupe for under $10K. The key is to watch the collectorcartrader.com or local papers and just call the owners and wait them out. The people who would be buying these cars are going either after Camaros, Mopars or hot rods (lots of hot rods!) So baffled sellers are finally getting sick of waiting. Call it a steal, but now is a great time to buy one cheap. Big blocks are still trading well, for the most part, but I bought a near show-quality '73 454 (#s match) for under $10K as well.
In other Corvette valuations: Late C3s won't go any lower. You can get a '78 or '79 for under $5K, so if you like the body style and want one, expect that the prices will inch up over the next few years.
I actually might track down a '84 with the Z51 and 4+3, because you can buy them for $4K around here...just to have a near 1g car for that cheap is almost worth it. ZR1s have also taken a beating. I keep hearing guys say "If I see another ZR1 offered at $20K, I'm going to scream!" (mostly the guys who paid $30K+ for theirs.)
And just as a baseline...Fords are getting killed more than Chevs. Want a '57 T-bird? A good #3 car will cost little more than $20K now.
[Modified by sammyb, 10:46 PM 5/21/2003]
C2s are still hot, with any factory 396 or 427 cars getting the premiums, albeit if you check auction results, the hammer prices are down about 15-20 percent on even the desireable high-hp cars. (So you're saying "why did you say they're still hot?") The average sales price of a C2 is still very strong, and has caught-up to the C1s, for the most part. '64 is still the bargain, trading at several thousand below '63 or '65. People just want to say "I have the first year of the Stingray" or they want the shark-finned '65-'67s.
What gets me is that you can buy a great smallblock '68 or '69 coupe for under $10K. The key is to watch the collectorcartrader.com or local papers and just call the owners and wait them out. The people who would be buying these cars are going either after Camaros, Mopars or hot rods (lots of hot rods!) So baffled sellers are finally getting sick of waiting. Call it a steal, but now is a great time to buy one cheap. Big blocks are still trading well, for the most part, but I bought a near show-quality '73 454 (#s match) for under $10K as well.
In other Corvette valuations: Late C3s won't go any lower. You can get a '78 or '79 for under $5K, so if you like the body style and want one, expect that the prices will inch up over the next few years.
I actually might track down a '84 with the Z51 and 4+3, because you can buy them for $4K around here...just to have a near 1g car for that cheap is almost worth it. ZR1s have also taken a beating. I keep hearing guys say "If I see another ZR1 offered at $20K, I'm going to scream!" (mostly the guys who paid $30K+ for theirs.)
And just as a baseline...Fords are getting killed more than Chevs. Want a '57 T-bird? A good #3 car will cost little more than $20K now.
[Modified by sammyb, 10:46 PM 5/21/2003]
05-22-2003, 09:54 AM
#12
Le Mans Master
Re: I may have to sell my 58, price help needed. (Kyle69-71 BBs)
Weird two 58 owners putting up the same question. Don't by 58's there a curse just kidding. That's mustangs :lol: Anyway IF? I decied to keep mine I have always wanted a second hood. I guess youdon't want to sell the hood but maybe if one of you others buys it you might. I will be watching as things are unstable on my end right now.
