Railroadman

Due to an upcoming trip, it will be next month before we try firing up the '64. I have read a ton of stuff, both past threads on CF and other on-line info. A lot of my questions have been answered, but I have some that are specific to my situation. It's a 327 from a passenger car and I installed a new Sealed Power CS-274 can which is supposed to be comparable to the original 250hp. carb is the original WCFB, rebuilt by All-American in Fla. Stock flat-tappet lifters.

I coated cam bearings, lobes, distributor gear etc liberally with dark moly break-in lube. That was about 3-4 months ago. I don't recall the brand, cam check if it matters, believe it was Valvoline. Oil filter is spin-on, was filled with oil before being put on, crankcase is full to proper mark with Valvoline VR-1. Once the valves are adjusted, the crank will have been turned 4 times, thus the cam two complete revolutions. I did run an oil priming tool with a drill and determined it shows 40 lbs on the cluster gauge.

I am NOW reading that I should NOT be using VR-1 for initial pre-lube and break in because it is high detergent and can wash away the moly lube. Also SOME articles have said the moly lube is the "old way" and current oil technology has made that unnecessary (can't recall if it was "bad" or just unnecessary).

1. Is the 4 months between putting the cam in and now (so make it 5 months before we fire it) too long for that goop to sit and still be effective? It's thick but over time could have dripped down.

2. I guess 2 times around for the cam before start is not excessive? I plan to pre-lube with a drill prior to putting the distributor in and fire-up immediately after.

3. Should I drain the VR-1 and put a non-detergent break-in oil in instead?

4. I've heard after firing, run the motor for 20-30 minutes, varying between 2,000 and 2,500 rpm to vary the oil splash. But at least one source said run it for 10 minutes, shut it down and let it cool, then repeat twice more - still doing the 30 minute break-in but with 2 cool-down cycles in the middle of it.

5. How critical is the oil filter used? Can't recall if it was suggested to use a finer mesh for break-in to catch more small particles, or a coarser mesh because the moly lube might clog it. Heck, might have seen 1 article saying each way, my mind has overload.

6. Backing up to valve adjustment - again, hydraulics - with the motor at the proper spot, slowly tighten the nut until the pushrod has no slop and you feel resistance to turning. Got that. But various sources disagree on how much to tighten AFTER that. The GM shop manuals say 1 full turn, which seems excessive. I've seen 1/2 turn suggested. I've seen 1/4 turn suggested. What's the opinions here? I went through that on the C-4 a few years back and think I just followed what the FSM said.

That's it at the moment, might think of more. Maybe I'm over-thinking it but I'm trying to understand what the logic and reasons are beforehand. Thanks!

Redbird

I would say you are good to go with all you have done. Make sure distributor is set to #1 at TDC.

67:72

I do 3/4 turn but any of these will do; the lifter is only preloaded with the extra turn so it won't affect performance in this range. I'd think 1/4 turn would be on the very light side such that the lifters could clack if the initial push rod movement was slightly misjudged.

Donald #31176

One other suggestion is to use a bottle of GM EOS in the oil during the break in . After 20 minutes running shut down and change the oil. filter. Top off and run normally. Change oil & filter after 500 miles and you should be good to go.

jforb

I did moly grease on the last one I did, and it worked...but it also had NOS Erson lifters.

When you adjust the valves, you need to take the "slop" out of the valvetrain, but do NOT tighten it any further than taking out the free play, before setting the preload. Do NOT tighten further so "you feel resistance to turning".

Anything from 1/4 to 1 turn preload will work, I use 1/2 turn and no issues.

Aside from that, it looks like you're doing everything right, and it's just a crap shoot if the cam/lifters live or not...have fun!

I just bought a hydraulic roller to put in my 327, although the flat tappet cam has been working great for 15k miles so far. I'm also adding aluminum heads, and wanted a bit more RPM out of it.

67:72

To add a bit more on hydraulic lifters: you're not changing valve lift at all with the pre-load, just the amount of space inside the lifter for the oil to fill. This amount of space is very flexible and won't affect performance — you could set 8 lifters at 1/2 turn, the other 8 lifters at 3/4 turn and you won't notice any difference at all. As conditions change and things wear, the oil just fills up more/less space. That's the advantage of hydraulic lifters over solid lifters that require specific feeler gauge clearances and periodic adjustment.

Railroadman

Looks like that E.O.S. is a zinc additive? Is that still needed if I have the VR-1 in there now?

One other factor. The car is not drivable yet, and at the rate I'm progressing (or not) it may be a while until it's on the road. Altho once I hear it run the rest of life may take a back seat to the rest of the project.

Donald #31176

EOS is the supplement that GM included in their crate engines during the 60s & 70s. I used it in 1976 on a crate engine that lasted over 400K miles until the cam went flat..

smacota1

Just a few tips as I have done this twice a few years ago........

Twice due to a machine shop screwing up a rebulid.

Make sure you have the timing really close, ok if not perfect as you are not putting a load on the engine. Pre load your carb with fuel for a quick start. You do not want to grind on the starter. I kept the engine at 2200 rpm for 20 minutes. Cam survived without a problem.

I always pre load the lifters a half turn after o lash.

Robert61 really helped me after the machine shop burned me. Gotta give him the kudo's.

Railroadman

This forum post claims what they sold as EOS then is totally different from what is sold today: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-your-oil.html

Railroadman

I'm figuring on putting fuel into the carb ahead of the start, maybe a couple drops down the intake. Half a turn on the lifters is fine, and the point about just taking the slop out is duly noted.

I need to look up the procedure for getting the distributor right on the money, I know it rotates as it goes down.

This is going to be calling to me the whole time we're gone!

vark_wso

RR -
If you rotate the engine to achieve #1 piston coming up on compression; then stop when index mark on harmonic balancer shows ~ 8 degrees advance (before zero) on timing tab. Insert/drop distributor & seat with rotor tab ~ pointing toward where #1 plug tower cap's location. (Delco cap window likely end up ~perpendicular to car's axis). That being done, engine will be set at ~8 degrees for first firing. Prime the carb & you should achieve good start on first crank.

If you have access to a large box fan/barn stall fan, recommend using same during your break-in run. 2500 seems a little excessive to me, but certainly 1500-2000 for ~15 minutes is what I've used successfully on 327/300 HP stock hydraulic cam situations.

Railroadman

Thanks, will do. I do have a nice box fan hanging by the compressor in the blast cabinet room, can set that up to assist. And yes, the car will be outdoors and fire extinguishers will be close at hand "just in case".

Muttley

One thing I did was use plain distilled water for the initial coolant fill--I figured in case of a leak that would make a lot less mess. I also pressure tested the cooling system a couple of days in advance of startup day. I did find two leaks during testing--one heater hose connection, and one head bolt. The head bolt was an outboard one, so it just leaked on the floor and was straightforward to reseal. The heater connection leak was in the cockpit, so I was happy it was just water.

Those were easy fixes in advance but would have caused much more distress if they were discovered during break in.

Westlotorn

If you used the standard Fel Pro 7733PT2 head gaskets they do not seal well till they go through the first heat cycle. For this reason I would not pressure test the cooling system prior to start up. Fel Pro had some customers that insisted on a pressure test before shipping engines out, for those customers Fel Pro had to add a special Teflon coating that would eliminate seepage on the cold test prior to a heat cycle. The standard gaskets do not like a pressure test before the first heat cycle.

Your VR1 is fine, the non detergent recommendation was standard up until around 1980, since then standard oil has been used with no issues.

On Start you do want the timing as close as possible so the engine fires right up. Extended cranking while trying to start is a cause of cam failures.

Once it starts you want to keep it above 2,000 for 20 minutes. 2,000 to 2,500 is fine but keep it there for that first critical 20 minutes.

Be Prepared to handle heat, a new engine will run hotter than normal so have a fan handy and also a garden hose with a spray nozzle. If necessary you can mist a water spray in front of the radiator. The mist can drop temps 20* in seconds. If it is getting hot, anything more than 200* I would shut it down, find out why and start your 20 minute break in all over again when ready.
Heat is dangerous for all your brand new parts. If a mist does not cool the engine you have a bad thermostat or some other reason the coolant is not circulating.

Cheap filters are actually very effective for start ups. They clean very well at first and over time are not so good. Better filters don’t test quite as well on initial start up but test much better for extended run times. Use a cheap filter for the start up and get a good one after the 500 mile break in.

There are several very high quality assembly lubes out there. There are some that do not help much and even hinder. The good ones are thicker than oil, when rubbed between your finger tips you should feel it staying slippery longer than regular oil. A quality break in oil is hard to wipe off your skin. A quality break in oil will mix well with regular oil. Same test put a drop of oil and a drop of break in oil on your finger tips, Rub them together and see if they mix well or if the break in oil repels your engine oil. Years ago in testing Moly lube was terrible for mixing with oil. Maybe they have changed and it is top notch now but it used to be one of the worst choices.

Maybe I have been lucky but on new install start ups I have set the crank at TDC or 0 on #1 cylinder compression stroke. Figure out where I want my #1 spark plug to be located once done. Now set the distributor in and play with it till the rotor is pointing directly at your #1 spark plug wire location on the cap with the distributor fully down in position.

If the distributor does not go fully down, sits up maybe 1/4” when you think it should be down, that is the oil pump shaft not lined up. You may need to pull the distributor and with it out reach down and turn the oil pump a little to make it line up with the distributor drive.

If the rotor is pointing at #1 while the crank is on #1 compression stroke and harmonic balance is at zero or TDC the engine will start. When it starts first.verify oil pressure and then quickly adjust the timing by ear if needed so the engine sounds healthy and bring it up to 2,000 RPM. The sooner the better it must get to 2,000 RPM to help break in your cam. Once the engine is at 2,000 RPM and you verify it has good oil pressure you will have time to check timing and look for leaks, watch the temp gauge.

I turn the idle up a few turns to hold the RPM at 2,000. Try to keep the RPM under 2,500, high RPM right away on a fresh start can cause problems.

It is best to have a helper with a list of things they can help with. It is easy to get excited and forget to watch oil pressure, temp and look for leaks.

On start it will be normal to hear the lifters for the first 30 seconds or so then they adjust and should be quiet.

Be prepared and enjoy the process.

Mark

Muttley

OK, good to know on the head gaskets. I didn't use Felpros; IIRC, I used Mahle 0.026 composite gaskets. They held pressure and I don't seem to be having any issues.