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[C2] original GM Grand Sport pricing sheet

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Old 01-07-2024, 07:05 PM
  #21  
Ol Blue
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Interesting letter, thanks for posting it. At first the Sept. 11 1963 letter seems out of sync as it seems the Grand Sport program was dead in January/February 63 due to GM racing ban. However, reading some of the Grand Sport history seems to bring some supporting evidence as to the credibility of it.

From the book, Chevrolet Racing...? by Valkenburgh.
In Dec. 1962 Mickey Thompson was testing a "stock" 63 Corvette at the Sebring track. Zora was there testing brakes for both the factory Corvette and the Grand Sport. Chevrolet got wind of it and in January of 63 GM management announced that they were definitely NOT going to build 100 Grand Sports. The 5 that were built or under construction would be scrapped or sold or used as test vehicles.

At the 1963 Sebring race no Grand Sports were not present so the heat was off and Zora was "clean" with GM management, plus he didn't have much to work with as two of the 3 running Grand Sports had been sold, one to Dick Doane of Doane Chevrolet and the other to Grady Davis of Gulf Oil Research. Both were raced in C-Modified and at first had limited success. As the season progressed, the Grand Sports began doing better including coming in 3rd at Road America and until finally a first at Watkins Glenn in Sept. 63 by the Grand Sport owned by Grady Davis and driven by Dr. Dick Thompson. It would seem possible that the upward trend of success with the Grand Sports was the impetus that prompted the Sept 11 letter above.

Zora continued testing GS-1 with different suspensions and engines including a dual overhead cam conversion to fit the existing aluminum block but then moved into the production Corvette engineering area. The GS-1 was used by Winchel and Musser to continue development of wheels (10" wide) and suspension components in conjunction with Roger Penske. Skid pad results went for 0.9 to 1.1 G's.

GS-1 was sold to Jim Hall. All three of the privately owned Grand Sports would race with success at Nassau 1964. Zora was so enthusiastic about the success he made a major proposal to Knudsen that he let Zora work out the high speed lift problem and then sell the two remaining Grand Sports. One to Mecom (who bought the Grand Sport from Doane) and the other to Grady Davis as a backup car. This would seem to provide support to the request letter above even though there is a date difference. It does not appear that Duntov was able to work on Grand Sport's lift problem as he would go on to work on a car for LeMans, the Mid-engine (Zora called them rear engined) CERV. That is where his heart was anyway and the time for front engine race cars was drawing to the end.

Ownership of the Grand Sports at that time would appear to be Jim Hall, (1), Mecom (2) Grady Davis (2).

Gary


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Old 01-07-2024, 07:38 PM
  #22  
John BX NY
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This letter seems to me to be a frustrated ultimatum of sorts from the Chevrolet Engineering Chief to his marketing colleague seeking a program decision which would help him get budget to continue. I remember reading the GM board later answered the question for both of them with the AMA ban on racing.
Old 01-08-2024, 05:03 AM
  #23  
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I will explain what is happening here, these are the Chevrolet guys, most were supportive of a Factory racing program, to include Bunkie the GM. It was Donner and the overall GM heads that demanded the ban of all divisions from Factory directly supported Racing--- Chevrolet, Pontiac!

This letter essentially was- Guys, are we going to do this?????????? In other words, is everyone on board, or do we cancel this program. The thought was, the GM Brass ultimately would not boldly fire everyone!!!!!!

Ol Blue's (Gary) summary was excellent. Zora originally planned to contest Sebring in preparation for LeMans. One difference is I believe the Z06 there at Sebring was a new improved Z06 car (upgraded Brakes- the new thicker drums), and not one of the Mickey Thompson cars, but would transfer to his care there in Florida. Also I think the first car builtvup for Nassau was chassis #005, not #001. And they did work on the lift problem, immediately after Nassau, the #001 and #002 cars kept to potentially contest LeMans, #001 got the new hood. It was painted the Mecom color, while testing it at the proving grounds. This hood development would get to the cars in private hands. Essential #003, #004, and the Penske tested #005 while he worked at the Proving Grounds for Zora, had the most run miles on them. The prize Zora wanted was LeMans, so would contest with the two cars with the least run time.

I cover much of this in like my Rare Car Enthusiast Registry thread in C2 here, but in a nutshell.

After the very public November 1962, brake & tire testing, the GM brass has a stern reaction about a Factory Grand Sport program. That car returned to the factory, and everything points to a destruction of a chassis and the body. Zora and gang being cautious, went forward with the production based Z06. Nothing dramatic occurred with them racing, to include Daytona and Sebring. But the NASCAR guys with the 427 MKII caused a serious mandate on Factory Racing. The Chevrolet and Pontiac guys hoped for a reversal of the Ban, so they proceeded to hold onto the potential LeMans. Zora and gang laid up 4 more chassis, as the one under the Prototype 38-1 car was pushed out from under the Sebring Test body. That was hidden under the domain of Bill Mitchell. After Sebring, nothing directed negatively after the Z06s, so they decided to run Chassis #003 and the #004 in SCCA in private hands Grady Davis and Dick Doane. And Roger Penske was brought in to help development, test driving the Chassis #005, into the Nassau configuration. The #003 & 004 returned to get upgraded also to the Nassau origination. So Nassau 1963 happened, and GM heads were furious, the final nail in the coffin happened. Ultimately a lot of yelling happened, Knutson and Zora, etc were threatened to be fired, but they were correct, as no one was canned.

The three Nassau 1963 cars, would return in 1964, where Penske dominated.

The three Nassau cars stayed in private hands. The chassis' #001 and #002 wearing the Mitchell LeMans Roadster planned bodies, eventually after #002 hit the show circuit, #001 still a potential testing mule, went to Penske, #002 to Wintersteen. Etc.

Back to the Letter- September 1963- everything was a go, no more screwing around. The Nassay configuration was finalized, body mods, engine, etc. Bring back the Davis and Doane cars, so Mitchell can do those body mods, and they were fitted with the 377s also. The greenlight for #001 & #002 for LeMans were next. Cut those roofs, etc. They were all in, after this letter. Some hoped that the success, the Press that was bound to happen, would reverse the ban, especially in consideration of the Cobra program blitz.

Also the letter talked the economics, the price point, if a 125 were completed.

Thus after this letter, all 5 cars got modification work.

They had that CERV II down with Jim Hall at Rattlesnake developing and testing. The CERV II first rolled on its wheels in March 1964 and stopped end of Summer 1964. That would evolve into the Jim Musser engineered GS-IIa, then b. Ultimately both Penske and Hall said if you guys aren't going to field this design, let us. And Jim Hall was the beneficiary based on having a solid working relationship with the Chevrolet guys, as Penske ventured to his ex-McLaren campaigned car- that becoming the Penske/Zerex Special.

Last edited by TCracingCA; 01-08-2024 at 06:23 AM.
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Old 01-08-2024, 09:32 AM
  #24  
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That's a fascinating piece of history.

What's the provenance on this document? I ask because it does not look like something produced on a typewriter back in the '60s. It looks like the letter spacing varies by the width of the characters, the numeral "1" is different from a lowercase "L" (back in the day is was common to use the lowercase "L" for a "1") and the sans serif font looks very modern. Anyone have any other Chevrolet internal memos from that era?
Old 01-08-2024, 11:38 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Duck916
That's a fascinating piece of history.

What's the provenance on this document? I ask because it does not look like something produced on a typewriter back in the '60s. It looks like the letter spacing varies by the width of the characters, the numeral "1" is different from a lowercase "L" (back in the day is was common to use the lowercase "L" for a "1") and the sans serif font looks very modern. Anyone have any other Chevrolet internal memos from that era?
In that 58053 book are similar letters, so maybe the same guys about to discover Grand Sport #7!
Old 01-08-2024, 11:41 PM
  #26  
67:72
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Originally Posted by Duck916
What's the provenance on this document? I ask because it does not look like something produced on a typewriter back in the '60s. It looks like the letter spacing varies by the width of the characters, the numeral "1" is different from a lowercase "L" (back in the day is was common to use the lowercase "L" for a "1") and the sans serif font looks very modern. Anyone have any other Chevrolet internal memos from that era?
I am wondering about the look of the typeface too. All of the Chevrolet letters I've seen from that time frame have a courier-style typeface. Assuming GM would have purchased IBM typewriters (the Selectric 1 came out mid-'61), I looked through entire catalogs of IBM typeface choices. I didn't spot any that were of this sans serif style with the circular formations. There were similar (though not exact) faces that came out for use in Selectric 2 and other machines a few years after this doc, but none for the Selectric 1.

Repeating Duck's ask: Anyone have any other Chevrolet memos from that era - showing the same typeface?
Old 01-09-2024, 05:51 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by 67:72
I am wondering about the look of the typeface too. All of the Chevrolet letters I've seen from that time frame have a courier-style typeface. Assuming GM would have purchased IBM typewriters (the Selectric 1 came out mid-'61), I looked through entire catalogs of IBM typeface choices. I didn't spot any that were of this sans serif style with the circular formations. There were similar (though not exact) faces that came out for use in Selectric 2 and other machines a few years after this doc, but none for the Selectric 1.

Repeating Duck's ask: Anyone have any other Chevrolet memos from that era - showing the same typeface?
I have seen all kinds of different type, of these kind of letters. Like Harley Earl had a similar type font, Bob Clift, etc. Also someone could have uploaded an older letter into a modern program and it would scan and reformat, if not a picture file would be my guess of what could have happened. But all of that is moot!

What would be the concern about this letter existing, as I see absolutely none! The Racing Ban was causing these guys a problem related to ambitions to go racing. They had ran the Grand Sport via Grady Davis and Dick Doane in competition and Zora and Team wanted to take on the Cobra. They had the weapon! This letter fits the timeline, as suddenly everything Grand Sport was happening, and they showed up at Nassau. This letter is September and that is the month that the #003 & #004 cars were recalled back for their makeover, following car #005.

I actually was attempting to figure out the timeline on Zora hiring Penske as a test driver. It seemed that as Modifications appeared on the Doane car, that would give us an idea of what might be happening back home on the Proving Grounds. The flares and wider tires were already worn earlier in the year a Sebring (Grady Davis Team of Dick Thompson and Don Yenko), along with like cooling scoops, etc. Thus green light go! The engine was being developed, etc..It would be cool to find an exact length of time from his hire to the Nassau being filmed in it's Nassau Trim. November 30th, 1963, they arrived in Nassau.

Based on the Nassau tail treatment of #29 (Doane car) in September 1963 at Road America, that would be the modification used at Nassau next. Thus either that was a fix for the air getting trapped in the rear end, by Penske's testing, and then transferred to the Doane team car, or they figured that out to try from the tracks.

Funny with the Cobra to Daytona, they went from Roadster to Aero Coupe and the Corvette guys went the opposite, going from Coupe to reduced Frontal area Roadsters.

Last edited by TCracingCA; 01-09-2024 at 06:34 AM.



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