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On advice from forum members of help selecting the clutch kit, I went with the LUK kit, and was informed to not use the steel pilot bushing (or the TO bearing) that came with that kit. So from Summit I also ordered the bronze pilot bushing for the same application. See pic below.
The bronze bushing has been installed (see below) and this leads me to two questions...
1). Bronze or OilLite Bushing, and should I lube it ? ? The specs on Summit simply say 'solid bronze bushing'. But as I read in the forum, do not lube an OilLite bushing as it will clog the self-lubricating pores in the bushing. I called Summit to ask if they know if the busing is OilLite bronze ? Or 'just bronze'. They had no idea. Also cannot find any phone number for National Bearing (bought out by Federal Mogul, who in turn was also bought out... takes forensics these days to find cust support phone numbers).
So how to proceed ? Just assume it is Bronze Only... and if so... do I lube a bronze bushing ?
2). Fitment. The bronze bushing matches up exactly in size to the LUK steel bushing that came with the clutch kit. That said, now that the bronze bushing is installed, and driven in as deep as it will go, the bushing does stand proud out of the crankshaft a little. The old bushing was pretty much flush with the crank surface. The old bushing unfort was seized solid in the crank and as much as i tried with a number of methods, in the end would only come out by cutting it out... it is destroyed so i cannot try to compare it to the size of the new bushing. I have read on the forum that even putting in the bushing in backwards (bevel to front of car) may cause the transmission input shaft to not go in far enough. If the tolerances are that close, I am concerned if my new bushing is 'proud' or that is the way it should be and my old bushing was deeper in than a normal bushing. Any thoughts ??? I guess worse case is that I get all assembled to the point of putting the tranny in... it does not work.. and I need to pull it all (bell housing, linkage, clutch, etc) all apart again and go looking for an alternate bushing to the Summit / National bushing (and will an alternate even be a diff size than the National bushing.. all that work and they are the same size).
Thanks !
National Bearing PB-656-HD as purchased from Summit.
One can see the pilot bushing is sitting just a bit proud of the crankshaft. Is that of any concern or is that what it should look like ? My only ref point is that that the old bushing was flush to the crank.
No fun getting the old bushing out. Note in the pic the old bushing is pretty much flush 5o the crank. The new National bronze bushing is a bit proud of the crank face (also see pic )
What was left of the old bushing. So cannot size match it to the new National bushing.
I think it will be OK but if you want to verify mount the bell housing to the transmission and measure the distance from the shoulder on the pilot tip to the inside of the bell housing transmission wall. Then mount the bell housing on the engine and measure from the same point inside the bell housing to the face of the bushing. As long as the second measurement is at least a sixteenth or so longer than the first measurement you will be fine. In reality the difference will probably be closer to 1/4”.
You asked a question on the bushing I have wondered about also. I finally ordered my last bushing from AutoGear figuring they will surely sell the right stuff. I know in the past I’ve lightly oiled or greased them and no dire consequences occurred. But if in fact lubricant impregnated it’s hard to argue with the advice to not do this.
I always put some (but not too much, you don't want it on the clutch disc) teflon Superlube in the pocket after the bushing is installed. Just because.
The pic looks like sintered bushing. Oillite is a trademark, so an oil impregnated bushing wouldn't necessarily be called oilite.
I don't think the bit of extra height make a diff, but I can't say for sure. IIRC, a loose input shaft will bottom out in the crank pocket, before the splined area comes close to the bushing, but that is from a memory of 15 or more years ago. Fit the bell, and measure from bushing to trans mating face of bell, then distance from front of trans to start of spines of pilot shaft.
And after much looking.. I found this info. So it seems it is oil impregnated. So based on that I would skip any lube on the bushing. But it is contrary to what I have done my whole life but maybe I should not have lubed them in the past.
If you MUST DO something, then put your bushing in a pan of very hot 30 wt engine oil, let it soak for awhile, and then let the pan of oil and bushing cool to room temperature. That will have the effect of allowing the oil to be drawn into the bushing pores.........if it can absorb oil at all. That is how these bushings get oil impregnated at the factory........or at least it is one way that they do.............sometimes a vacuum chamber is used. The hot to cold oil bath to fill the pores is called "capillary action".
NO SOLID LUBE is to be used on this bushing............and just a "dab" on the input shaft splines when trans is re-installed.
When i did my clucth ,the pilot bearing stuck out so i measured the imut shaft with bellhousing on it had no effect on, and it had no effect on the imput shaft
If you MUST DO something, then put your bushing in a pan of very hot 30 wt engine oil, let it soak for awhile, and then let the pan of oil and bushing cool to room temperature. That will have the effect of allowing the oil to be drawn into the bushing pores.........if it can absorb oil at all. That is how these bushings get oil impregnated at the factory........or at least it is one way that they do.............sometimes a vacuum chamber is used. The hot to cold oil bath to fill the pores is called "capillary action".
NO SOLID LUBE is to be used on this bushing............and just a "dab" on the input shaft splines when trans is re-installed.
Larry
Thanks Larry. I will go with your advice... no lube of the bushing (already installed so cannot immerse in oil)... maybe dampen with some 40 wt oil on the input shaft just before I install the tranny. Input shaft I will slightly rub on some lube on the splines to facilitate the clutch disk sliding on the input shaft.
If the bushing feels "dry", then it has either never been impregnated with oil, or it has all "wicked" out.
They use to package the bushings in a protective plastic wrap, but the last several I have received were just inside a thin cardboard box, which then allows the oil to wick into the cardboard... WTH?
Another method that I have used, is to soaked a very small section of folded old cotton T-shirt material with 30 wgt. motor oil, and push it deep within bushing, so that the tip of my old Muncie shaft just contacts it.
This acts as an additional source of lube for the bushing.
Note that it should not be soaked to the point that any oil seeps back out, which would then contaminate the clutch disc!
I also use that old Muncie shaft as my bushing installer, and as my clutch disc aligner, when installing the pressure plate (much more "accurate" than the plastic thing they offer)..
And completely agree that no "grease" should ever be used on a pilot bushing. Only use a very light coat of grease on the input shaft splines, and on the input shaft retainer, where the TO slides. And on the TO fork pivot ball pocket.
Here is my Pilot Bushing install tool. The large thick washer is used to protect the surface and contour of the pilot bushing, as it is being installed.
Thanks Plasticman. That is exactly how my National Bearings bushing arrived... in a cardboard box. And yes... in handling it... It never felt 'wet' at all to me or even left a oily residue on my fingers. So probably pretty typical of what one gets these days for parts.
I like the idea of wadding up a piece of old tee-shirt into the crankshaft bushing cavity. There is free space in the cavity behind the bushing. The bushing does not bottom out in the crank. There is a machined ridge in the cavity that acts as the 'stop point' for how deep the bushing can get driven in. That space behind the bushing seems a nice cavity for a damp wick of oil (of some material) to be placed.
I used to ages ago have an old muncie input shaft used exactly for that purpose.. an alignment tool. Long since gone after many moves so I am down to using the plastic alignment tool that comes with the clutch kit. I have had issues with them in the past... but have learned they work OK if I put some upward tension on them (to elevate the disk) as I begin to snug down the press plate onto the disk. If I don't... I have run into the situation where the tranny will not go in... until I release the PP bolts again and do this as part of snugging up the PP.
Have run into the same situation when having to use the plastic alignment tool. We find a way.
I only have the Muncie input shaft for the 10 spline disc, and need to find one for the 26 spline version!
Note the twist in my Muncie shaft's splines, that I had to Dremel slightly for a clutch disc to slide on. Result of some very hard drag launches....
The last pilot bearing I installed was a Moroso roller bearing type. The instructions that come with the bearing state that it should be installed with an arbor press. I could not figure how to get an arbor press in position to install the bearing since the engine was installed in the car, so I made a tool that attaches to two of the flywheel bolt holes.
09-16-2022, 11:20 AM
62 - Bronze Pilot Bushing Question
and go looking for an alternate bushing to the Summit / National bushing (and will an alternate even be a diff size than the National bushing.. all that work and they are the same size).
but maybe I should not have lubed them in the past.
