Islander21

I've been lurking around for a long time soaking up some great info from you fine folks but now it's getting to be about the time to start my "alternate form of transportation" project in earnest. Here's some pertinent info so that you know where I'm coming from and where I'm headed:

#1- I don't own a midyear Corvette - but I sure WANT ONE!!

#2- I plan to drive the car almost daily, not trailer it. Florida weather is too nice to keep such a great car indoors.

#3- I am serious about restoring a semi-basket case with my very own two hands and wallet. I'm handy with tools and my 3-car garage is begging to be filled. To that effect I've been a Vette, Corvette Fever and Corvette Cars+Parts subscriber since 1999 and have several other Corvette books that I know will help me get going once I find the car (that includes an autographed copy of CR&TG Vol 2 - thank you Noland!). Learning is the reason I frequent this forum as well. I will also join the NCRS and the Central Florida Corvette Association early next year.

#4- I am patient, I will not buy the "wrong basketcase" (mild oxymoron detected). I have waited a long time for this, now that I have the resources to do it I'm not about to cream the budget on an extra-crappy. Flog? Yes. Cream? No.

#5- I will start the search late in Q1, 2003 and I will be looking for a 1966, 1965, 1967, 1963 or 1964 roadster, in that particular order of preference. No engine or tranny are required or actually wanted. Must have a good frame, at least easily unbent/repaired. I'd like most of the body to be sound and at least the soft top frame, seat frames and instrument cluster should be there. I'll be redoing the interior so the rest is not needed. Good glass would be nice, re-platable chrome is OK as well. How much am I willing to spend? Good question. Depends on the overall condition of the basketcase. How much would you pay for what I just described?

The ojective (go ahead and cringe, purists :p: ) is to make it look like it's 1963-67 but make it ride like it's a 1999. I'll keep int/ext color combos by the book and will not mess with the classic look by adding flares or bling-bling wheels, etc. However, safety is a concern: 3-point harness/seatbelts will be installed, the suspension and brakes will be upgraded and radials will grab the asphalt, among other things.

I will keep my eye out for such a car from now until I can get my grubby little fingers on it, hopefully before the end of 2003, but I'll be asking a bunch of questions in the meantime, for instance:

I was considering the RamJet 350 engine as the powerplant, possibly mated to a Richmond 5-speed but I have doubts about the FI tower on the RamJet not fitting under the big block hoods on the 65-67s, let alone the small block hoods. I've searched the forum for info on this but I only came up with info for a 59 or 60. Will the RamJet fit under a midyears' hoods? If so, what mods to the hood are necessary, if any?

Another question: Two alternatives regarding suspension are Paul Newman's C4-C5 frame conversion or, my preference - mostly due to budgetary reasons, the Vette Parts front/rear composite leaf suspension kit. No frame cutting with that one. I understand Newman's clients swear by their cars, but has anyone used the Vette Parts kit and have some feedback to offer?

Geez, sorry about the length of this post, won't happen again until it happens again, promise. :bs I'm Looking forward to becoming part of the Corvette family here in due time. I'll keep my search and eventual restoration efforts documented for others' sake and entertainment as well. Many thanks in advance for your help and keep up the good work.

Islander


Dream car: 1966 roadster, Laguna Blue with dark blue/white interior, sidepipes, BB hood, Beatles on the radio, Lynda Carter in the passenger seat.... no wait, that's my wife's seat, damn! :cry

Cruzmeisters

Islander - welcome aboard! If you've "lurked", you know it's a GREAT place to hang out :yesnod: Hopefully, your quest will end soon, and you'll be :steering: (DAYAM, I LOVE that new "smilie"!). :cheers:
Cruz

Islander21

Thanks for the welcome, Cruz. GO STEELERS!!!

ghostrider20

Is your goal to have a project to do or to have a car to drive?

If you have been reading around here for a while you probably have picked up that you can buy a nice car DONE, and ready to go for less then the price to build one. If money is not an object and the journey and project mean more then the product, then it sound like you have your work cut-out. I have ridden in C3's and C4's and they don't ride alot better then my C2. Not good enough to justify a conversion in my opinion. I am not knowledgeable enough to have an opinion on aftermarket units (Newman). Add power stearing, Radial tires, good shocks, rubber, joints and brakes and you have a good stock system.

Just offering some open ideas. By the way, welcome to the forum.
Mark

pittsaj

Welcome aboard

Since you have been lurking, I don't have to tell you that many here will tell you that a basket case is a BIG undertaking..
It will consume many many hours and Many $$$$$

Most will tell you to buy the best car, in the best condition, and as close to what you are looking for as you can find...
For sure in the long run this will cost less..

The real problem with a basket case is loosing interent in the long process..
If you have unlimited $$$$ then this is less of a problem...

Good luck in your search......

Tony

Islander21

Hello Mark,

I want a car to drive but built to my specs as I'm not a numbers matching guy. I'm pretty sure I would actually enjoy the project itself as I did just as much with an old Triumph TR-6 of mine many years ago (it's true, the English wer clueless about electron flow then). I understand the issue/concept concerning buying the best car you can afford, but if I did just that I would still replace the engine, transmission, brakes, suspension, etc., if it was not to my liking - so more money would go out the window. I'm actually not in a hurry to find the car, though sooner is better, and I'm willing to put up with a 3-4 year project based on time and budgetary constraints.

Islander21

Tony,

I don't have unlimited funds, that would be my wife you'd be talking about. :lol: The problem with that concept, unless I find a non-numbers matching car, is that I'll be paying for "authentic" stuff I really don't care to have. Yes I could sell it to someone who needed it, and surely I see the value in a set of front coil springs if I want a Blue Ribbon car, but I don't want them on my car, I want something a bit more driveable. I could go on and on about some of the unseen mods I would like to have but you get the picture. That's not to say that if I see a very clean car that I can purchase and drive for a couple of years then restore to my liking I would not touch it - on the contrary, I may just throw some money at it ASAP but that's not plan A. I am willing to do a bunch of the work myself, though.

ghostrider20

Sounds like you have your plan of attack layed out, that is good.

For the sake of brainstorming I will put in my .02$. If you bought a car ready to go, say paint was good, car runs, interior is good, basicly a car that you like. Not a #'s car but a complete unit. Then pull the motor and trans and have them built to your specs. You will off set the cost of finding a motor and trans. I have seen junk cars on trailers in parts go for 18K and for the price of paint you can get one all ready to go. A good paint job (depending on where you live and type of job) can cost anywere from 6K-10K.

Mark

Plasticman

Islander21,

Welcome to the forum!

As for changing the suspension, I have to disagree with Ghostrider20. I have owned a C2 (66 roadster - daily driver for 4 years), and a C3 (70 T-top that was daily driven for 15 years). Currently have an 87 Z-52 coupe (driven daily Spring, Summer, & Fall for the last 9 years) and the 62 Vette shown below (driven only on weekends or to shows, and rides like the buckboard that it is - at least in comparison to newer vehicles).

The C2/C3 suspension in my view will torture you on anything except the smoothest of roads (unless you like rough riding Vettes that follow ruts at a whim) if driving for long distances. Short distances we all can handle a few bumps here and there. They can be made to handle quite well, but always at the expense of ride quality. I am sure many will rise to differ with this view. So be it. I have played around with various shocks, anti-sway bars, alignment setting, tire pressures, and springs (mostly on the C3) - all in the interest of "improved" handling (did some higher speed auto-cross during that period). The ride never got any better! The later C4 suspension (87's & up) is "almost" perfect for my type of driving, and does not make me suffer as did the earlier suspensions (especially on Chicago area roads which are pot hole heaven), and it dosn't follow ruts like the C2/C3's. Admittidly, I did not have gas charged shocks on my C2 or C3, and that certainly would of helped, but both had the latest radials of the time. Fiberglass springs are a question mark as for how much they really will help the C2/C3 suspension (never have riden in one), but the fiberglass springs in the 87 are great. The 87's seats are also far better than the earlier versions. I put up with the stiffer ride in both the C2 & C3 since I drove them mostly on expressways, and enjoyed the handling and performance. But having owned other performance vehicles that combined good ride & handling as well as great performance, I always wondered why the Vette was so rough (Drove a Jaguar XKE roadster, among others, daily for 4 years until the Prince of darkness - Lucas Electrics - just got to me one too many times). Had another XKE (66 roadster) later, but that got fried in a garage fire.

Note that later model Rack & Pinion steering is an advantage as well for the C4/C5 suspension systems. As for later model brakes, you would need larger diameter wheels due to the size of the rotors (best to go with the 88 & up 13" rotors). This may be the only real down side to the whole conversion (I don't like the appearance of the larger wheel sizes - 16/17" on early Vettes, but that may not be a problem for you).

If my 62 wasn't in as great a shape as it is, I would be very tempted to do a Paul Newman C4 suspension under it! Combining the earlier Vettes with a latter model C4/C5 suspension is keeping him very busy for a reason.

Good luck,


[Modified by Plasticman, 1:01 AM 12/19/2002]

tucsonjwt

Islander - I'm planning much the same thing as you are.
My plan is to "resto-mod" a 63 split window. I had one as a teenager and want one now. I am especially interested in the 3 point harness issue and the ride improvement, but I also want a modern drive train/brakes/suspension. I wonder if a modern street rod chassis (with four corner air ride/rack and pinion, etc., can be made to fit under a mid year body. I think the aftermaket Gand Sports take that general approach.
Unfortunately, I just had a bad house fire so I am temporarily sidetracked from this pursuit - but I will get there eventually. Let us know how you are progressing on your project.

Kid_Again

....i dunno....we can extrapolate your "mild" oxymoron and perhaps give some meaningful advice....

...as some of the truly reliable posters here have said, you can significantly improve the ride of a midyear by upgrading to a more modern suspension....OK, that's a fact.....you also seem to be headed in the direction of a modern electronic FI engine - OK, reasonable......

....if you want a car that rides like a C4, buy a C4

....the fallacy that we find ourselves in is dumping vast amounts of money into 40-year old cars to try and approximate what's on the road now - lipstick on a pig

...i also fall into that trap sometimes so count me in, but i would ignore the fact that the midyears drive like a buckboard, have antiquated braking system (single reservoir MCs.....OH MY GOD, call in the NTSB!!!!!! :eek: ), have primitve heating and AC controls, rattle like hell, the factory seats suck, and they STILL don't have modern, state-of-the-art 4wis systems - uh, they're not supposed to :yesnod:


...so, how do you want to spend your money? ....why not just build what you want, be realistic that if you make major improvements to one component, you then move the constriction point around to another rate-limiting component and you'll find that in your quest to improve your antique, you'll have spent $100K to approximate a C4 and it will be a pretty poor imitation...

...why not just buy a honda S2000, drop in a supercharger or turbo and show nothing but tail lights to the best the world has to offer :confused:

...btw, welcome to the hobby and the forum!

Islander21

Plasticman,

That's a gorgeous 62 you've got there, and thanks for the suspension feedback.

Tucsonjwt,

Noland Adams' book (vol 2) has all the info you need to add the 3-point shoulder harness.

Kid_Again,

Don't move. Step away from the bong slowly and put your hands in the air where I can see them. :D

I hear you, but I'm looking for a compromise between a bit more advanced technology for driveability and saftey's sake (it's a daily driver) and the great classic looks of the midyears, a look that the C4s and C5s can't touch with a 10 foot pole, IMNSHO. Besides, I'm anti-bling.

cbernhardt

A new forum member, forum name "ZZ 430 RAMJET", has a Ram Jet 350 in a 64 convertible that also has a "stinger" big block hood. I don't think there were any clearance problems with this combination, but it would not fit under the stock hood

Although I do not have much experience with those newfangled "midyears" I can tell from owning both a Top Flite '62 and a frame conversion '62 that you will get tons more enjoyment from driving the conversion car. You can drive it like a C5 (except you don't have to be so careful about taking it easy over speed bumps and curb cuts) and you don't have to worry about breaking or wearing out those hard to find "correct" parts.

There are several of the C1 tube frame companies that build frames for C2's. I think Jamison's has a complete round tube frame and SRIII and Paul Newman do frame conversions to adapt the C4 suspension to the C2 frame.

Good Luck.

Charles

Kid_Again

....many of you are much more pallatable ON the bong, no thanks! :cheers:

kellsdad

Islander21-
I've owned my 63 coupe for 24 years, but it was in the condition you are seeking when I started restoring it about three years ago. My goals were very similar to yours. I went with a ZZ430 clone engine and the full Vette Brakes suspension upgrade front and rear. It took me about a year to disassemble the car down to the bare frame, and about a year and a half to put it back together. I can't say that every moment of working on the car was fun, but I can say that in general, I enjoy working on the car as much as driving it. Here are a few things I learned.
1. It cost me about double what I anticipated at the start.
2. Every task took about three times longer than I predicted.
3. I constantly had to resist the urge to turn my driver into a show car. For example, how much time should I spend finishing and painting a suspension part that will never be seen by anyone but me.
4. Few modified parts (e.g., new engine, new suspension, VintageAir) go in without starting a cascade of other needed changes. It would have been much easier to go with stock replacement parts.
5. The new suspension makes the car handle more precisely. But it does not approach the feel of a modern, high performance automobile.
6. Radial tires + manual steering + new suspension = very heavy steering at low speeds. If I were starting over today, I'd add a Steeroids rack and pinion steering setup to my list.
7. Almost a year after I "finished" the restoration, I'm still finding little things that need attention. Unlike modern cars that can be ignored for 50,000 miles, an old Corvette always needs attention to something.
I hope this helps.

SLO 65

Wecome to the Forum. I sent you an IM regarding your quest for the ulitimate corvette. Build the midyear car with modern components and you will have the best looking car with all of the perks of a modern car. I thought about selling my 65 Convertible and buying a C5, but everytime I roll the 65 out of the garage a croud gathers - C5's are everywhere and have lost some of the "wow" factor.

Nic

richscorvettes

Welcome to the Forum. You've made a good start by finding this place.

It sounds like you have a good idea of what you want in your car and it's certainly doable. There are quite a few folks here who have done these conversions and I'm sure they will be willing to offer their help. We've built one car with the Vette Brakes suspension and one with the C4 Newman conversion. As with most things each has their own list of pros and cons. The Vette Brakes "Performance Plus" package is a reasonably priced approach for the improvement in handling and straight-forward on the installation. The C4 conversion is much more involved in terms of effort and cost but a more sophisticated setup. There are several companies doing either frame conversions or a tube frame for the C4 suspension now so you have your choice of what you feel will best achieve what you want.

I'd be happy to help if you have some questions along the way. Just drop an e-mail and I'll try to help.

Rich Lagasse

Crazyhorse

Well since you're planning on modding the snot out of the engine and suspension you might want to consider a car that has had some well done flares applied to it. This should save you a few grand off the purchase price
and will give you more flexability on your wheel/tire combo.

Kid_Again

kellsdad - good, common sense advice

slo65 - you may have a lot of fine things but one thing you do NOT have is a midyear with the modern perqs - you have a 40 year old car with some new add-ons

OK, OK...some of you are committed to your point of view (nothing wrong with that :yesnod: )- anyone honest enough to post the bucks they dropped into making their toy forever young????....uh, no fair saying it's a "hobby" and "i'm doing this because it's a labor of love" :rolleyes:

...i think you're ALL more bearable on the bong

Brutal64

Welcome to the forum! :seeya Sounds like you put a great deal of thought into your future vette. All it takes is time and money, and if you have plenty of both then go for it. I personally don't have the patience for a project like yours. My car is down for more than a couple weeks and I start to get antsy.

Steve