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If you are talking about Dr Simeone collection in PA he has one of the Roadsters I believe GS#002 White with light blue accents the Ex Gerorge Winterstein car. For sale in 1967 Hot Rod Magazine for $4500 as a roller... as an aside I restored a car for a gentleman who owned IIRC #004 , he said it was the most he HAS EVER paid for a single car to this day - 500k in 88-89.
The Z06 had power windows...
It was reportedly wrecked the first time and recieved the tail lamps from a 64 Dodge and the slight rear flares then was wrecked and hit moderately hard which knocked the front end off. The entire inside of the car was stacked with Aluminum mid year rads when I went and looked at it. more photos
Last edited by firstgenaddict; 09-19-2023 at 02:22 PM.
Desktop or Laptop,.. I am not typing on a phone for the phone's sake as it may end up 50 feet across the shop after I erase more characters than I end up sending.
Desktop or Laptop,.. I am not typing on a phone for the phone's sake as it may end up 50 feet across the shop after I erase more characters than I end up sending.
I bought a bargain bottom tablet, zero programs loaded, can't even seem to figure out picture storage, or how to do emojis, but for two years, that has been my most consistently not affected by virus device. The autocorrects, spelling changes on the other devices drives me absolutely insane. I know I type stuff clean, then hit the send, then look at a post with errors is frustrating. I spend half of my posting life doing edit corrections. I hear You!!!!
The visit to check out that barn find, must rank up there as interesting days. How did you guys get onto that car????
One day for work, I flew out to Colorado and ended way out east of Colorado Spring on the plains to meet a Contractor to fix a 220 unit apartment complexes main like 2 foot diameter ruptured water line like 15 feet down in the middle of the complex driveway on a Sunday. Talk about flooding! Thus probably drove right past this 1963 Z06!
Last edited by TCracingCA; 09-19-2023 at 05:24 PM.
The owner of the 809 63 Z06 has a massive amount of documentation and pictures of the car back in it’s racing days.
So do I, I got it all from Doug Hooper who almost bought it back in 1963. After it was repaired by Burger, Doug was no longer interested, trying to get his Corvette shop going, then he pursued getting his Cobra.
Last edited by TCracingCA; 09-19-2023 at 06:41 PM.
I bought a bargain bottom tablet, zero programs loaded, can't even seem to figure out picture storage, or how to do emojis, but for two years, that has been my most consistently not affected by virus device. The autocorrects, spelling changes on the other devices drives me absolutely insane. I know I type stuff clean, then hit the send, then look at a post with errors is frustrating. I spend half of my posting life doing edit corrections. I hear You!!!!
The visit to check out that barn find, must rank up there as interesting days. How did you guys get onto that car????
One day for work, I flew out to Colorado and ended way out east of Colorado Spring on the plains to meet a Contractor to fix a 220 unit apartment complexes main like 2 foot diameter ruptured water line like 15 feet down in the middle of the complex driveway on a Sunday. Talk about flooding! Thus probably drove right past this 1963 Z06!
One of my customers who I help with finding cars for his collection/do some work on his cars is from Colorado Springs, he dragraced a 67 Camaro - strut front end etc Injected BB 7 sec 1/4 miles in a series out west and won the class one year. paid guys to drive his truck etc... well that got every ex Camaro racer with everything from 67 Z28's 67 L78 camaros to COPO's Hemi's etc, when he quit drag racing he "suddenly" was flush with cash and wanted help verifiying and finding real cars preferably survivors.
In 2013 he had a 69 RSZ survivor... now he has a survivor Daytona Yellow one owner 69 Yenko Camaro from the first batch of 50 (which were all X66 coded with black tail pans and 1/4 gill trim) survivor Lemans Blue 69 Yenko Camaro, a restored 69 Yenko Camaro dk grn, survivor 67 L68 roadster, a survivor Lemans Blue White Top 69 L78 RS/SS conv endura, vigilite, dlx pw ps pb power top, M21.
First car he came at me with was a Orange 70 Hemi cuda with 19k original miles white interior rally wheels pistol grip 4 spd console original plug wires bought from the original owners daughter and son, took it to MCACN and then sold it to Evan Metropoulis, Then a 4300 mile black LS6 M22 Chevelle... When I am out in CO he says do you know anything about Z06 Corvettes? I said I can identify all of the high dollar brake components... and if it's not been restored I can probably tell you whether it's a tanker from the factory. He said good enough, you're in for 25% of the profits if we can get it bought.
It was late that day, and there were a couple of funnel clouds when we were on the way to the place, it was about 2 miles down 2 gravel roads. The man who owned had restored corvettes in the late 60's and through the 70's, had a 55 nomad wagon with frenched tail lights, and the cameo with 68 Z28 302. He knew early Big Brake stuff from his time restoring straight axles and was in a junk yard in 1967, as soon as he saw the brake drums he knew what the brakes were and paid $300 based upon the brakes alone, but not having any idea how to determine whether or not it was a Z06. It came with a true 1963 front clip and tons of NOS stuff, like a 15 foot enclosed trailer worth, 4 trans missions 3-4 rears, shifters.
I found out in 2018 the brakes were worth 35-40k, which is double the figure I had used in figuring what was the most we could give for it.
We owned the car less than 2 weeks it went directly to Utah from
Last edited by firstgenaddict; 09-19-2023 at 07:13 PM.
One of my customers who I help with finding cars for his collection/do some work on his cars is from Colorado Springs, he dragraced a 67 Camaro - strut front end etc Injected BB 7 sec 1/4 miles in a series out west and won the class one year. paid guys to drive his truck etc... well that got every ex Camaro racer with everything from 67 Z28's 67 L78 camaros to COPO's Hemi's etc, when he quit drag racing he "suddenly" was flush with cash and wanted help verifiying and finding real cars preferably survivors.
In 2013 he had a 69 RSZ survivor... now he has a survivor Daytona Yellow one owner 69 Yenko Camaro from the first batch of 50 (which were all X66 coded with black tail pans and 1/4 gill trim) survivor Lemans Blue 69 Yenko Camaro, a restored 69 Yenko Camaro dk grn, survivor 67 L68 roadster, a survivor Lemans Blue White Top 69 L78 RS/SS conv endura, vigilite, dlx pw ps pb power top, M21.
First car he came at me with was a Orange 70 Hemi cuda with 19k original miles white interior rally wheels pistol grip 4 spd console original plug wires bought from the original owners daughter and son, took it to MCACN and then sold it to Evan Metropoulis, Then a 4300 mile black LS6 M22 Chevelle... When I am out in CO he says do you know anything about Z06 Corvettes? I said I can identify all of the high dollar brake components... and if it's not been restored I can probably tell you whether it's a tanker from the factory. He said good enough, you're in for 25% of the profits if we can get it bought.
It was late that day, and there were a couple of funnel clouds when we were on the way to the place, it was about 2 miles down 2 gravel roads. The man who owned had restored corvettes in the late 60's and through the 70's, had a 55 nomad wagon with frenched tail lights, and the cameo with 68 Z28 302. He knew early Big Brake stuff from his time restoring straight axles and was in a junk yard in 1967, as soon as he saw the brake drums he knew what the brakes were and paid $300 based upon the brakes alone, but not having any idea how to determine whether or not it was a Z06. It came with a true 1963 front clip and tons of NOS stuff, like a 15 foot enclosed trailer worth, 4 trans missions 3-4 rears, shifters.
I found out in 2018 the brakes were worth 35-40k, which is double the figure I had used in figuring what was the most we could give for it.
We owned the car less than 2 weeks it went directly to Utah from
That car was quite the project!!! It is cool to be part of the story of the finding of it!!!!!!! That is a in the bar over beers, barn find story for sure.
I am looking it over, and they got a few awards, and have flipped it for around 375K (not going to look up the exact # again). I am disappointed that they show like 66 pictures, nothing related to how discovered, no attempt to gain any history, etc. There was no passion in that sell. You guys on the other hand posted some pictures, and that shows passion-- hey everyone, look at what we found is cool. The auction listing, just looks sanitized, no mention of the prior owner, the find, the history, nothing, no dealership, nothing, nothing!!!! Sad. I have it as a Zone 20 delivered car, but have nothing to verify that (don't remember where I got that info). So if true, how did it go from LA to Colorado, is the interesting type stuff. I might chart these earlier cars, to try to sort them, but have to get over my research burn out.
Story we got was it was raced at Pikes in 63-64 - and was off the road by 66-67 when it was found in a junkyard don't think the front was knocked off racing, the racing wreck resulted in the rear tail lamp section being replaced. The frame wasn't damaged in the rear end accident, but the glass was fixed with the 64 dodge lamps then had the front end knocked off, which bent at least one A-arm.
The bottom photo shows the zinc/cad plating still on the bleeder screw and the e-brake cable and clip - it was off the road EARLY. The restorer said in the VV article that the frame was beautiful no corrosion, it still had asphalt paint on the rear of the frame.
... I have been involved in some good finds, the year before this --- 2015 - at a local Cars & Coffee in Greenville SC I found a previously unknown 1969 COPO 9561 Camaro - sold from King Chevrolet in Cinci Lemans Blue/over black, M21, rear antenna, console, gauges, exterior style trim, rally wheels. One of my friends knew the gentleman who purchased it a few years prior as a nonmatching Camaro with a Big block 4 spd, we put it up on a lift later that day and 427M was scrawled inside the lower fender extensions. Another friend located the long block in Ohio and the two were mated up being restored in TX.
I bought the only Black LT1 Corvette known to have been produced, leather, tilt-tele, M21, 3.70 PS PB rear defog NO RADIO. 20 letters back and forth with GM to get the car built.
Our family owned a small olds chev dealership in NH dealership sold a few fuelie corvettes for summer homes on Lake Newfound and dad remembers the 1962 409 4 spd Wagon in black on black to the local funeral home as a flower car,,,, let your 22 old son order cars for the funeral home and ... I'd do the same!
Flew into MACAN in 2019 guy reference above grabs me and says sit at the table look through these and I am going to talk to the guy about buying it... 249 mile BERGER double copo in Glacier Blue with dk blue int endura etc. Block damaged drag racing spent 10k getting the pan rail and bottom of the block fixed and machined.
I never thought the Z06 would be worth more than 150k max. and figured by the time I was done it would be 100 in cash outlay then 1000 hours of work meaning in at 200-220k paying 100/hr for labor.
FWIW I went to the Pikes Peak Museum and photographed all the entries from 1963-1966 but couldn;t make heads or tails of it.I absolutely love researching old race cars.
Been thinking of getting rid of some cars and buying an old race car, preferrably a roadracer, I would love a LOLA T70 - I'm not picky - open top or MKIIIB as long as it has mechanical fuel injection with stacks! . HA!
Last edited by firstgenaddict; 09-19-2023 at 09:53 PM.
So do I, I got it all from Doug Hooper who almost bought it back in 1963. After it was repaired by Burger, Doug was no longer interested, trying to get his Corvette shop going, then he pursued getting his Cobra.
Nope, just know of him. Claimed Z06 expert and current Owner of #809. Yes I have documents for his car, but that crowd ignores research shares from me, so I absolutely don't want to ever meet them, interact with them directly, I am not social anymore, except from a keyboard as anonymous as possible. See some of the so called experts made sport of my disabilities from my accidents, literally made fun of my health, spread crap around when I attempted to join and share, so now I will demonstrate how little a lot of them actually know to the benefit of you all (this Franz guy was "not" party to any of that, most that did are the Corvette elitists thou). And when these Car Owners have Estate Sales, I have planned vacations around such type happenings, if it is within my means to do so. And at times I have helped some of the top people for free, like McKay on a few tidbits and he in turn gave me one of my missing 1967 L88 Vins, helped Mancuso recollect his Greenwood Sebring GT model involvement and where that ended related to ACI, etc. Many records or pieces of the Ownership chains, etc. are the basis of my information shared, but Ownership chains are not my thing. I attempt to leave out naming the Ownerships as much as humanly possible, as that is how you end up getting into legal entanglements, so I stick to the cars, unless an Ownership like this Franz possessing #809 is brought up by someone else, like yourself. Over my near 52 years of car/race research, working with SDAM connected to the Harrahs, Cunningham, and Petersen Museums as a researcher helping Magazine authors, enthusiast, a number of Registries, etc. in the 1990s, my quest to obtain records, race results, Car paperwork, dealership information, Vin lists, etc. etc. I thought about getting into the Magazine industry, writing books, but found I am a terrible writer, my punctuation, sentence/paragraph structure sucks (even though I hold two Honors degrees from College, pursued an EE degree while doing Naval Electronic Combat Systems related engineering work for three Government Contractors), so I kept my day jobs. I have picked up stuff from the Doug Hooper's of the world, I have in my possession collection memorabilia from guys like Guldstrand, Briggs Cunningham (Cerv stuff, Bill Mitchell diary, etc. their records, invoices, notebooks, personal literature, etc. etc. ) I have attended Estate Sales of guys like Yunick, Bondurant, and more, guys that picked up literature, as I am a literature/records hound, etc. etc. looking for interesting documents, records, diaries, notebooks, etc. that is me. I had no interest in 1963 Z06, until one day I got tired of the 50 years bullcrap and decided to give a Master Class on this model's history thru hardcore research, after diving in. You all have watched someone who didn't give a rat's *** about 1963 Z06s, to closing the gap on what all happened here with the history. I don't have an Ownership interest in Z06, I do not need a Z06, just looked like a totally F'd up history, just the type of Research puzzle that interests me, in solving. I will spend thousands of dollars to acquire crap in my little for zero profit hobby.
Doug impaled Franz's car onto a concrete barrier at Dodger stadium in late 1963 (2nd event at that venue), after winning the Heat on Saturday. Doug mentored me some as a young guy, doing competition pistol shooting. We knew him since the 1960s, him and my Father did Police work together and their mutual friendship stuff.
Been down this road before. I just stay in my own little world on the fringe of the Corvette world, occasionally I have interactions with Corvette Registry, Greenwood level guys, Corvette Museum people, etc. etc. I am not interested in being in the circle, and I attempt to hide my identity, because it is the internet. I don't have to be famous, I am not attempting fame, it is a hobby I do, to take mind off of real world day to day life.
Plus I avoid getting to know people on a personal level, as I might learn to like them, and then my being Subjective and Objective goes to hell!
Last edited by TCracingCA; 09-20-2023 at 12:20 PM.
Nope, just know of him. Claimed Z06 expert and current Owner of #809. Yes I have documents for his car, but that crowd ignores research shares from me, so I absolutely don't want to ever meet them, interact with them directly, I am not social anymore, except from a keyboard as anonymous as possible. See some of the so called experts made sport of my disabilities from my accidents, literally made fun of my health, spread crap around when I attempted to join and share, so now I will demonstrate how little a lot of them actually know to the benefit of you all (this Franz guy was "not" party to any of that, most that did are the Corvette elitists thou). And when these Car Owners have Estate Sales, I have planned vacations around such type happenings, if it is within my means to do so. And at times I have helped some of the top people for free, like McKay on a few tidbits and he in turn gave me one of my missing 1967 L88 Vins, helped Mancuso recollect his Greenwood Sebring GT model involvement and where that ended related to ACI, etc. Many records or pieces of the Ownership chains, etc. are the basis of my information shared, but Ownership chains are not my thing. I attempt to leave out naming the Ownerships as much as humanly possible, as that is how you end up getting into legal entanglements, so I stick to the cars, unless an Ownership like this Franz possessing #809 is brought up by someone else, like yourself. Over my near 52 years of car/race research, working with SDAM connected to the Harrahs, Cunningham, and Petersen Museums as a researcher helping Magazine authors, enthusiast, a number of Registries, etc. in the 1990s, my quest to obtain records, race results, Car paperwork, dealership information, Vin lists, etc. etc. I thought about getting into the Magazine industry, writing books, but found I am a terrible writer, my punctuation, sentence/paragraph structure sucks (even though I hold two Honors degrees from College, pursued an EE degree while doing Naval Electronic Combat Systems related engineering work for three Government Contractors), so I kept my day jobs. I have picked up stuff from the Doug Hooper's of the world, I have in my possession collection memorabilia from guys like Guldstrand, Briggs Cunningham (Cerv stuff, Bill Mitchell diary, etc. their records, invoices, notebooks, personal literature, etc. etc. ) I have attended Estate Sales of guys like Yunick, Bondurant, and more, guys that picked up literature, as I am a literature/records hound, etc. etc. looking for interesting documents, records, diaries, notebooks, etc. that is me. I had no interest in 1963 Z06, until one day I got tired of the 50 years bullcrap and decided to give a Master Class on this model's history thru hardcore research, after diving in. You all have watched someone who didn't give a rat's *** about 1963 Z06s, to closing the gap on what all happened here with the history. I don't have an Ownership interest in Z06, I do not need a Z06, just looked like a totally F'd up history, just the type of Research puzzle that interests me, in solving. I will spend thousands of dollars to acquire crap in my little for zero profit hobby.
Doug impaled Franz's car onto a concrete barrier at Dodger stadium in late 1963 (2nd event at that venue), after winning the Heat on Saturday. Doug mentored me some as a young guy, doing competition pistol shooting. We knew him since the 1960s, him and my Father did Police work together and their mutual friendship stuff.
Been down this road before. I just stay in my own little world on the fringe of the Corvette world, occasionally I have interactions with Corvette Registry, Greenwood level guys, Corvette Museum people, etc. etc. I am not interested in being in the circle, and I attempt to hide my identity, because it is the internet. I don't have to be famous, I am not attempting fame, it is a hobby I do, to take mind off of real world day to day life.
Plus I avoid getting to know people on a personal level, as I might learn to like them, and then my being Subjective and Objective goes to hell!
I appreciate the effort you have put into this thread. Especially the Z06 info because like you mentioned it is a quagmire. The fake MT car is something that needs to be out there for sure. Franz is a friend of mine and I wouldn’t put his name out there even though he’s well known to many in the community. I’m sorry people have treated you with disrespect but there’s always bad apples in every group. Best of luck and keep up the awesome work.
OK worked on 1967 L89. Tried to find existing internet pictures, but most of these cars aren't often seen, or haven't been out and about for years. I didn't get to all of them yet. Like I know I have pictures of at least one of the Sunfire Yellow Coupes and an artice or two. I need to work on Dealerships, etc. But here is where I am at. The Drew 1992 survey is public on Corvette Action and a fellow enthusiast also sent it my way, so I possibly didn't have to look it all up. Yes finding stuff I have, sometimes can be a challenge. Trying to get my motivation going again, as doing this is a time consuming endeavor and largely a thank less project. So I evaluated the cars thought to be real, from that old listing of 1992, to what I believe in the current. I had typing errors on two Vins that I fixed, and readjusted the Vin order. Like many know one of the cars claimed to be a real L89 was one from the Reggie Jackson collection. He had that big fire and I did post up on that, so it wasn't lost forever (should be able to search it). I listed cars burned up (not just Corvettes) and a newspaper picture of the burnt wreckage. Apparently the documents for his L89 were claimed to have been lost in that fire. I did prove out that he had no real L88s lost (L88 engine installs). The 1967 Claimed L89, is the only car to consider for tracking related to Corvette Rarity.
Maybe I should post that old 1992 Survey also, just to keep it all in one place, so no one has to visit the Corvette Action site and look for it. When I get it posted, Notice on this listing that two entries share the same Vin (Black car and Blue car??)I will post that in the original format, which includes their best effort on the 1967 L88s, just like I do both in the same Registry post here on the early pages of this thread also. I think I know the 20th L88 car, since I moved the Silver Coupe to the L89s, but need to find my info, in my house. I don't want to go back to McKay again, as I should not have too!
Here is my latest 1967 L89 Registry status:
1967 CORVETTE L-89 (16 cars) I NEED TO DO MORE WORK, PENDING
L89 67-1 Vin#194377S110055 PEARL SILVER/BLACK COUPE 4.56 Born 02/07/1967 (Rosenthal Chevrolet; Arlington, VA.)
Notes: This car is claimed to be the 1st Production L88 by the so called Experts. I don't think so, as it pre-dates the #702 Prototype car. Also in the picture is the Silver Roadster that is pictured extensively in the Noland C2 Book, I firmly believe is the first true Production L88, thus Silver car too, and why the Coupe was mistakenly thought to be an L88. Talk was of a Silver one being the first, the L88 was the Roadster, and L89 was this coupe. History is now corrected! You guys can buy me a beer later.
This car was nicknamed Quicksilver from being street & drag raced.
Researching see notes
L89 67-10
Vin# 194377s119086 TUXEDO BLACK/BLACK COUPE
Note: Conflicting information as this car was known to be Lyndale Blue/Black-White Coupe at one time. Might need to come off the list.
L89 67-11
Vin# 194377s120294 SUNFIRE YELLOW/BLACK-WHITE COUPE
L89 67-13
Vin# 194677s121397 MARLBORO MAROON/WHITE CONVERTIBLE Born June 21, 1967
L89 67-14
Vin# 194377s121797 ERMINE WHITE/RED COUPE
L89 67-15
Vin# 194677s122328 LYNDALE BLUE/WHITE & BLACK
Iron Heads? Will look into whether this is a picture of this Vin when I get around to it.
L89 67-16
Vin# 194377s122908 MARINA BLUE/BLACK COUPE
Uhm!
Vin# 194377s113522 MARINA BLUE/BLUE COUPE
Note: Highly disputed car, but still called an L89 since the 1980s, so I am checking that. An example of the pinnacle of perfection, with every big Award, but then sold for a fraction, of where these have sold. Beautiful perfect car thou!
Researching
Vin# 194377s115355 SUNFIRE YELLOW COUPE 3.55 (Barnes Chevrolet; Summit, NJ) Born
Note: From the Owner's sign--Strong word, it is "Believed to be" Ugh! Researching, as suspect. This car is off the list.
Researching
Vin# 194677s121453 RALLY RED/BLACK CONVERTIBLE (
Note: Reggie Jackson car, claimed paperwork burned up in the fire. Claims Noland looked car over after the fire.
Pictures-- I need to review first, major work to find the right car for posting a pictures.
Last edited by TCracingCA; 09-21-2023 at 07:33 PM.
Oops in my haste to type stuff, I wrongly wrote how the Silver L88 Roadster was maybe factory delivered, then shipped to MA for a Dealership hand over. Wrong car, the other thought to be MA delivered car was the one for that thought. I am going to go back up and edit that. I am human, can make mistakes attempting to get things posted fast on a break or during commercials. I actually try to catch my own mistakes, sometimes I don't, so appreciate a proof read assist. Like I accidently posted a Green coupe on the Roadster Vin. I need to locate the green Convertible L89 picture. A few of Maroon cars too are confusing, need to double check I have the right picture of the cars with the right car Vin! Anyone saving this stuff. Wait a day or two, as generally I will proofread myself.
Last edited by TCracingCA; 09-22-2023 at 07:07 PM.
08129 Z06 is at the Mecum Auction in Glendale CA coming up.
Dealer 20 Zone 0
Chevrolet Zone Office
Los Angeles CA
Perhaps it was destined for press or for Pikes Peak all along?
That is 2024 and where I was disappointed with the car write-up, where no history was shared, no pictures of how found. I like that you guys were attempting to chase down history. I think I know which car it was at Pikes Peak, and there is a picture of it. With non-interested in the history type guys, I hate to help their flip profits, by sharing what I have learned about this car. Might wait till after it changes hands, to share like that picture, etc.. or PM it to you.
Also that error needing an edit, was in that other newer thread on the Red on Red L88, where I mixed up MA delivered L88 cars. I have the paperwork for the Silver Roadster all saved, can post pictures of that up. It was that Coupe where the Dealership was unknown initially. I worked on L88 a little, with the L89 edits and picture ads. If anyone has pictures of any of these L89 cars, it would sure speed things up. Help me, as finding and digging pictures out is tedious work.
Last edited by TCracingCA; 09-22-2023 at 03:22 AM.
I appreciate the effort you have put into this thread. Especially the Z06 info because like you mentioned it is a quagmire. The fake MT car is something that needs to be out there for sure. Franz is a friend of mine and I wouldn’t put his name out there even though he’s well known to many in the community. I’m sorry people have treated you with disrespect but there’s always bad apples in every group. Best of luck and keep up the awesome work.
Really no Fake MT car (just mixed up cars).
Everything I find points to the restored Silver 427 car, being the actual White 427 car. I think the Silver is pretty, car is awesome. If it was mine, I would leave it alone until the day it needs a new paint job, then change it to white, just to be historically correct, and just because the White car has the more interesting history.
On Mickey's street #6844, they got that mixed up with the wrong history, but that was caught prior to a recent auction and disclosed (probably read something I wrote! Ha ha. They wrongly decaled it as the Norm Burger car, Mickey borrowed it back for his Allstate Tire promotion run at Bonneville Salt Flats for the Sears Automotive campaign. That was car #787 that did that promotion, not #6844. The year before, Sears(Allstate) used a female racer's Avanti Supercharged car for advertising (Paula Murphy). So for the car flip crowd, many of the decals would work on a 1963 Avanti her getting the title of Fastest Production car in history.
The Riverside winner looks to have been #008, solidly a pilot line car from dates and car descriptions. Some Hollywood people with a car #689 (non-Z06) attempted to claim that Vin as the Riverside winner. Prior to Riverside, Doug was using this #008 car to break it in, get comfortable with it. They also took it to Riverside prior to the racing weekend to attempt to sort the bad Z-06 brakes on the track. The car was fitted also with the new Radir Mag Rims, as Thompson just became a distributor. They sold a set to George Barris and those ended up on the 1960s Batmobile, and some other Hollywood cars, etc.
#809 is a solid car, picked up just before Nov 1962 Pomona Road race, driven by Al Gunther, as Krause was not on the Team yet. I do think incorrect history was taken from #809 by the Silver 427 car claim, is the only sin. As Vin #787 has been taken to be the Silver 427 car, the actual history on #787 as the true white 427 car, is lost by the mix up.
As far as my disabilities, I am back working on my real Corvettes, I am back trail riding my dual sport, I swim, I hike. I have been doing Martial Arts to improve my mobility, balance, health in general. My finances, credit damage from heavy medical bill co-payments and drop of Health Insurance coverage due to my accident, I have come back, not all the way, but the World is changing, I am doing OK! I kept all of my Corvettes, one 1969 Formula car, one 1965 Elco, a motorcycle, and 1/2 interest in my Father's old Corvette also. Thx, still not giving the Expert claimed guys free stuff except in this type of public forum format, and I aint selling anything I got to any of them. I just don't sell stuff (maybe one day, if I decide to downsize my life collected possessions).
Last edited by TCracingCA; 09-24-2023 at 02:24 AM.
Drew Papsun starting if I remember correctly, reaching out by survey to Ownerships believing they had rare Corvette models in the 1970s. He still visits our forum. Here is the generally the circulated Survey list, that is the basis for many who are tracking these cars. I have bounced my research off of these Vins, I have some variations, but much of the same car Vins.
I have information, the Vin on the claimed Puerto Rico existing L88, just nothing really comes up on that. Don't know if it has been verified and there are two other cars that might be the 20th car of this listing for L88s. I need to find those notes, as prior to me removing 055, I thought we were at the 20 cars. Funny I never really noticed, but Drew had a ? mark next to this same car. Ya too early for L88!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Drew gets the most credit for this work. His list just wasn't too public. I started my list prior to getting ahold of his, but had like 16 cars, just from literature.
Last edited by TCracingCA; 09-24-2023 at 12:40 AM.
As I am at work on a little break, I just grabbed like the end days of the Norm Burger Corvette Team ambitions. As you can see, the team that included the famous actor Peter Fonda, did not arrive for this Santa Barbara event. I have several theories as to what caused Norm to end Team Ownership, but it is only theory. By this time, Doug Hooper had separated from Norm's Team, told me he was off doing his own thing focusing on his Corvette shop business, still friends, but had teamed up with Eric Pohl as you can see, their racer sponsored by Doug's own shop (Doug's Corvette Service) and he transitioned to the Cobra with Pohl next (pulling financial resources together), thus last days of the C1 being entered. In this one race result page, you can see them competing against Doug's old Team Owner- Norm Burger. Norm hung onto this White 1963 Z-06 Corvette the longest, brokered for sell by our good friend, my acquaintance for J-56 brake pad work guy-- Andy Porterfield to the current Owner to help Norm. Peter Fonda did buy into a partnership of the Vin#809 Silver 1963 Z06 Coupe for the shortest time from Norm, Krause partner/Driver went with that transition. This information being shared, is new to the experts. Don't think they have locked in, onto this info (Franz). You can also see how the White car #787 ended up in the hands of Andy Porterfield, as he was Norm's last driver, other than this car being lent to be evaluated for purchase, by a local Socal Autocross guy, but that deal fell thru. Then the white car ended up being used to indoc, training, Andy being an Instructor for SCCA School to check out rookie Drivers for Novice licensing at Riverside, it was kept in one of the Riverside Garages I remember, it being spray can painted, bright orange.
Last edited by TCracingCA; 09-24-2023 at 12:22 AM.
We had a previous thread on what is called Peter Fonda. The Actor took an interest in Corvettes in this 1965 year. His connecting up with Norm Burger, Andy Porterfield, Bill Krause led to connecting up with Zora's ambitions. Very public Corvette Race Teams were being considered for receipt of the coming competition model, Duntov was planning. He wasn't able to get the Executives to do it. Thus his back door supply to get select outfits racing the Corvette started, one of the 1965 cars went to Gorries Chevrolet in Canada, them getting their M22 car, and the Peter Fonda car was similarly equipped, pictured here in the modern.
In the modern this car is nicknamed-- Peter Fonda!
Peter Fonda (don't like his Politicis, but staying with his car interests), he had a taste for going fast. He talked of ambitions of running a Corvette at Bonneville. Thus this car was built up with M22 and a very special ratio rear end. This happened because Harry Mann Chevrolet was known as the supply dealership to Hollywood, the Stars. Andy Porterfield maintained a long term association, having their sponsorship for over three decades. The new 396 was thought to be the Corvette to get. Thus they courted Zora, Fonda got his car (PS Doug's Corvette Service maintained it there for awhile during his Owner, being so close to the Burbank studio lots). I don't have many records on Bonneville, so don't know if he ever got there, but Fonda loved his car. He engaged in like Mulholland runs in the hills near where he was living, etc. As the actor owned this unique M22/396 car, it has ended up being nicknamed Peter Fonda. I mention it in one of my posts related to what cars, Prototypes, projects got the M22s transmissions in 1965, me trying to account for the entire count of them. The movie studios of the era had a bug about contracted Movie Stars going track racing. Same thing happened to James Garner shortly after this story. This Bonneville wasn't considered track racing. With James Garner being restricted, he got his speed fix at Baja. Peter Fonda going in this direct with his own new special big block car, sourced from Zora himself, immediately sold his interest in #809 (formerly from Harry Mann Chevrolet too, acquired by Mickey Thompson, brought by Norm Burger), to Fonda/Krause, then Krause.
Norm Burger did the engine tune, fuel injection work for Mickey Thompson, was essentially a friend of Thompson who helped the Team. He co-write a Fuel Injection book with Bill Thomas. He also wrote some articles for Hot Rod. He also put the tune on the Corvette he loaned Mickey Thompson, for that Sears Allstate Bonneville run. Thus Peter Fonda (Pete casual) came to the right westcoast group for his speed ambitions.
Last edited by TCracingCA; 09-24-2023 at 01:12 AM.
Krause after Zora pulled support from Mickey Thompson, he stayed with Mickey on the continued promise of an opportunity at Indy, but that whole experience caused a loss of desire, motivation, especially with the loss of Dave McDonald. The two had essentially traded places. Thus as per Doug Hooper, he thought that could very well have been him. He took rides in other people's cars. The Norm Burger Team made a place for him, in between other opportunities. He went the route to secure his future in 1963 by starting his own business, he took hired race drives on the Team, but also a few rides in Sports racers, like the Lotus 30, Lola T-70, etc. Honda Cars was just getting a new footing in America, the buy in was low purposely, because Honda liked his race celebrity/pedigree, liked his Birdcage Maserati win at the Riverside Times GP. They also considered him for their coming Honda Formula One Team, but he was looking at retiring from racing. In 1966, a Lola T-70 drive kind of helped his decision to retire and focus on business, as they were rear engined, deadly fast, purpose built lightweight machines capable of travel as fast as he was wanting to go, on the edge of adhesion. So 1965, he kind of followed his good friend Doug Hoopers example of focus on their businesses they started up, both in 1963, mixing in some weekend racing fun when they could. Thus the Corvette #809 went bye bye, to it's next Ownership, 1965 being close to the last of him campaigning, then 1966 retiring.
I like to combine the stories with the race records. That Racing Sport site result I shared yesterday, just ties all of the names together. Funny a few times I visited both Dick Guldstrand in the morning on one side of the hill, then went up the 405, exited on Mulholland drive for a spirited commute, dropping down to see Doug Hooper. Funny they did like to talk about their celebrity customers. One time Dick introduced me to Robert Carradine, who was there at the shop. Dick had me watch the shop when they went on a test drive, because everyone else was up at Willow Springs Raceway. Related to Guldstrand celebrity customers, I have like Eddie Van Halen's GS-80 Traco dyno sheet, and the rock stars car #002 Guldstrand invoices. Fun stuff. Doug would talk about his Celebrity customers occasionally, Doug liked to talk about setting up cars for stunt drivers, etc.He got to be the onset driving consultant for a few movies. He was just a fun, good natured guy to have around. Dick was more matter of fact, at least with me, because I always asked him a lot of questions about his racing history.
Last edited by TCracingCA; 09-24-2023 at 12:30 AM.
09-19-2023, 02:14 PM
