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In your first post you said you wanted to use a mechanical flat tappet cam but you bought heads setup for a roller. 195 heads will be suited better for top end HP numbers, not really for a 20-80% bandwidth powerband where you drive.
The 327 is what it came with, nostalgia.
I like the looks of 327 top swap
Generally there is no real appearance difference between a 327-350-[383] and a 400....certainly not as much as between real double hump heads and aluminum 195's. So why build an inferior engine? Half the time I tell people my 350 is a 327, it's really what they want to hear...
Last edited by karkrafter; 01-20-2021 at 12:19 PM.
Go with a Hyd. Roller Cam. Its worth the $$ in torque alone for a 327.
The company that I ordered the AFR 195 from have the Hyd. Roller Cam setup in stock. They would have to order the mechanical flat tappet setup. They can send the heads setup for the Hyd. Roller Cam today.
DucatiDon
"Go with a Hyd. Roller Cam. Its worth the $$ in torque alone for a 327"
That is the what I was wondering. Thank you.
karkrafter
Not looking at an absolute NOS look. Just want a vintage look and defiantly want to be able to say its a 327 and be truthful.
I use to race snowmobiles and won most of the time. Winning got boring so I went with a smaller, well tuned engine to make it a greater challenge and still won a lot of races, not as many but the look on peoples face when I told them I was running a sled with almost half the cc as their machine made it all worth an occasional loss. My point every one does the 383 thing, me I'm guess its to prove a point, a 450 HP 327 in an old corvette matches the old guy driving it.
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Last edited by 66rdstr; 01-20-2021 at 01:07 PM.
Reason: spelling
My point every one does the 383 thing, me I'm guess its to prove a point, a 450 HP 327 in an old corvette matches the old guy driving it.
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You started out saying you wanted to keep it simple. Now, you want a 450 hp 327? And a roller cam? I see some conflict here.
If you're the typical "old guy" (like me), a simple build to oem specs on your 327 will satisfy what you outlined in your first post and be a lot cheaper than subsequent recommendations.
Also, more (cubic inches) torque, more tire and stiff clutches equals more broken parts.
The company that I ordered the AFR 195 from have the Hyd. Roller Cam setup in stock. They would have to order the mechanical flat tappet setup. They can send the heads setup for the Hyd. Roller Cam today.
DucatiDon
"Go with a Hyd. Roller Cam. Its worth the $$ in torque alone for a 327"
That is the what I was wondering. Thank you.
karkrafter
Not looking at an absolute NOS look. Just want a vintage look and defiantly want to be able to say its a 327 and be truthful.
I use to race snowmobiles and won most of the time. Winning got boring so I went with a smaller, well tuned engine to make it a greater challenge and still won a lot of races, not as many but the look on peoples face when I told them I was running a sled with almost half the cc as their machine made it all worth an occasional loss. My point every one does the 383 thing, me I'm guess its to prove a point, a 450 HP 327 in an old corvette matches the old guy driving it.
.
I recommend that you select a cam before buying valve springs (and not buy the head with springs that may end up on a shelf). AFR used to sell heads bare or with valves and no springs (with no waiting), so the owner can properly match springs to the cam.
The Comp cam you mention is 236/242 @ 0.050 with either a 108 or a 110 LCA (Comp specs list both LCA's depending on where you look, so verify before buying). Modeling this cam in a 110 LCA (oval track) version with a well assembled 10:1 CR 327 (.040 over), places the peak torque at @4350 rpm, and peak horsepower at @6700 rpm. The 80% peak torque band is from about 2600 rpm to 7200 rpm, with the torque curve rising evenly after 3000 rpm. The expected model idle is rough @ 10.5 inHG (slightly rougher than a 30-30 cam). The car will need a 3.70 or 4.11 rear gear to be comfortable at 60 mph and operate above that 2600-3000 rpm range where the torque starts to pull hard. This Comp cam models better torque below 2500 rpm compared to the benchmark GM LT1 (178) cam, with nearly identical top end tq & hp (although the LT1 cam models with a slightly smoother 13inHG idle due to less valve overlap with the wider 116 LCA).
My 357 (0.040 over 350) runs a slightly more aggressive cam, an Isky 530A, 270/274 adv, & 242/246 @ 0.050, ground with the lobe center angle pushed out to 110 (rather than the Isky shelf spec @106) to work better with ported rams horns and a full exhaust system. This cam in my engine models with a similar 10inHG idle, but the actual idle pulls 14inHG (where the model accuracy fails). This idle and low rpm torque is easy enough for my wife to drive, with 4.11 gears. For a comparison I modeled this Isky cam in the 327 and it made 6% more average torque than the Comp cam with most of the extra grunt below 4000 rpm, and nearly identical peak horsepower.
This cam comparison illustrates where modern aggressive flat and roller lifter cam profiles build more average torque below the torque peak rpm than the benchmark LT1 cam, with similar peak horsepower. The higher torque bandwidth benefit of the modern cam designs over the LT1 is due to the higher dynamic compression at lower rpm, where the peak horsepower is similar due to the head's airflow. The LT1 cams advantage is the proven ability to run for 100,000 miles due to the longer duration easier opening and closing lobe profiles that are compatible with softer valve springs. If you are willing to sacrifice potential cam life for better low rpm grunt, then the more aggressive modern cam grinds make sense (with flat or roller lifters).
Since you mention a hydraulic roller lifter, I offer the caution that they typically do not like to run past about 6500 rpm due to the higher valve train mass and heavier valve spring forces on the hydraulic plunger. The solid flat lifter cams will easily run well past the usable power band, beyond 7500 rpm, without valve or lifter float, while the hydraulic roller will not behave as well if abused.
BTW, 400 hp (340 rear wheel hp) is achievable with a 327 at a 6800 rpm peak, while a usable 450 hp may be a stretch due to the higher rpm needed to move the required airflow (where the bigger displacement engines can move the airflow to make the same power at a lower rpm).
As you folk can see, I am not coming up with a plan. I appreciate the constructive suggestions. Snide remarks are discouraging when trying to come up with a plan. I was looking at the following as examples. I'm looking to use an old school engine to produce power the young guys will respect. I know there are a lot of options out there 383, 350, etc just would like to build a 327 that will make one pause and think maybe some of these old guys might know a little.
Mix a little new with old but look old if that makes sense.
Take a look at build 462 HP
and build top-end swap
and build
As you folk can see, I am not coming up with a plan. I appreciate the constructive suggestions. Snide remarks are discouraging when trying to come up with a plan. I was looking at the following as examples. I'm looking to use an old school engine to produce power the young guys will respect. I know there are a lot of options out there 383, 350, etc just would like to build a 327 that will make one pause and think maybe some of these old guys might know a little.
Mix a little new with old but look old if that makes sense.
Take a look at build 462 HP
and build top-end swap
and build 327 Dyno
They conveniently avoid listing the intake on the 462 hp build, and show an RPM air gap on the 383 build, a concern because most high airflow intake manifolds do not fit under the C2 hood. The 327 video looks reasonable with realistic numbers for a lab dyno and an engine with headers, good heads, and a tall RPM intake. Running iron exhaust manifolds and an intake that allows for a decent filter under the hood will temper the power.
My 357 made over 430tq and 420hp on the first dyno pull with open headers, but it took more tuning to best that output with iron ramshorn manifolds and exhaust restriction (and I fit into that old guy demographic). There was lot more work that went into my engine than a good flowing set of heads, from a low windage crank and rod assembly to optimized length pushrods. My car can keep up in the 1/8th or 1/4 mile with the modern non-supercharged Mopars and the average stock LS C5 or C6, due to the lighter weight and low gearing, but there are many quicker modern cars with a higher top end. The larger displacement engines just make it easier to keep up, with better lower rpm reliability and behavior (and there is always someone with a faster car, so make driving ease a priority).
The power can be achieved with a 327, but you need to fit the engine under the hood, build the engine to use the airflow at a higher rpm and be reliable (quality rods and engine assembly), and have good around town drive behavior.
If you want the classic Corvette performance and flat tappet sound, build a stock 327/365. Even with rams horn manifolds and stock exhaust, there is nothing as cool.
There are some facts we have to face. Any kid can put a down payment on a new hi performance car. Old ladies drive 500hp sedans. My and your C2 ain't going to keep up unless you build a race car. When is the last time you went out and nobody noticed your C2? The point is we have nothing to prove, you are driving the coolest car ever built. (build a 327/365, with the money you save you can buy an expensive wooden steering wheel or something.)
I see you are making good progress using YouTube and Google. Those snide remarks about using ancient flat tappet cams are very deceiving and.can set you backwards if your trying to make others think "you actually know something ".
But sometime you will have to decide on your combination. Be wary of personal emails offering advice or work for fees.
I see you are making good progress using YouTube and Google. Those snide remarks about using ancient flat tappet cams are very deceiving and.can set you backwards if your trying to make others think "you actually know something ".
But sometime you will have to decide on your combination. Be wary of personal emails offering advice or work for fees.
Have fun.
Pretty much uncalled for. Besides, go back and read what the OP said his objectives were. Trying to impress someone with his knowledge wasn't one of them.
The post before yours seems to fit his bill perfectly.
Here is my 383 looks almost identical to an OEM 327. Makes loads more power where you use it.
The 327 was only good for chirping tires t 6500rpm on the 1-2 shift.
Now I smoke the tires in 2nd.
01-20-2021, 09:07 AM
