Rumble 65

I have been off the forum for awhile and need some help on my '65 vert.! How does one find out what the original engine for the car is? Is it in the serial number ( 194675S108145 ) or the plate below the glove box ( F20, Style 19 467, Trim Std, A-2671 Body, M-M Paint ) or ? The guy I purchased the car from claims it to be a 327/365. However the original engine is long gone.

The reason I'm asking is that I'm trying to deceide if I should install a rebuilt engine that I recently purchased (350/400+ Peak HP and 400+ peak TQ as measured on the builders dyno) or try to build up an engine original to the car. I may actually have some of the original parts but need help to identify them. They are as follows:
Heads 3782461
Intake 3844461
Exhaust LH 384653 RH 3797902 ? Not sure on these numbers-hard to read
Dist. 1111069
Carb. Holley List 2818-1 3849804

Do any of these parts make sense for a 327/365? How hard is it to find parts to build a 327/365. What block numbers would I look for?
All coments are welcome. Thanks!

lawcpi

Nolan Adams reports:
Heads 3782461
Carb 3849804 List 2818-1
Intake 3844461
Exhaust LH 3846563 RH 3797902
Dist 1111076 or 1111070
Above is for L76 327 / 365hp engine

Hope this helps.

Larry :)

jimgessner

Fred is correct. Also, what redline is on the tack? What are the casting numbers on the engine in the car? The heads also have dates on them like C215, which would be March (C) 21, 1965. #461 heads were made from late 60 thru 65. The reason I ask is your car was manfactured late Jan 65 so the engine dates are probably very late Dec 64 or earlt Jan 65.

461 heads were also on 300hp, and 350hp motors as well. The tack redline of 5500 for 300hp, 6200 for 350hp, and 6500 for solid lifter 365 and 375 motors helps determine "what was there".

Also, the intake referenced should be alluminum high rise GM with stated part number, chrome air cleaner and finned valve covers. Suggest you buy Noland Adams book "Corvette Restoration, Technical Guide Vol 2"
You can find it on Amazon.com. About $60 but well worth it. Once read and understood, you will be an expert.

By the way, the car was Milano Maroon with standard black vinal interior when new, in case you did not know.
Jim

58Vette65

Not much to add but just thought you might like to see a picture of my '65 the same color as yours.



Mine has a 5500 so it was a 327 - 300HP but a post owner put on the 396 hood and sidepipes.

Rumble 65

Now I'm getting very excited :cheers: A big thanks to all for the info. The tach redline IS 6500 so another confirmation for 365HP solid lifter car. I forgot to add the casting date on the heads - it is A145- so I'm guessing Jan 14, 1965. I have a 15" chrommed air cleaner. The intake is definitely AL. Also the valve covers are finned. So, this is all definetely good news :D for building up a correct engine for the car. What block numbers am I looking for? Date code would be late '64?
Yes, I knew about the Milano Maroon and Black vinyl. The car is now Rally Red with Black leather seats.

Rumble 65

Dennis,
Nice looking Car :yesnod: Mine is no longer Milano Maroon but Rally Red. I also have sidepipes and black rag top but have knock-offs and wide white wall tires. Gets alot of looks - that is when it was on the road last! Long, long story but the car has not seen road in the last 2 driving seasons :cry due to engine problems.

jimgessner

You are correct Fred. A145 is Jan 14, 1965. The engine block casting should be 3782870. That number is on the driver rear of the block where the bell housing meets. On the passanger side, same area, there will be a casting date ( when the block was casted). I would expect A65 or something like that. It could be a L204 (Dec 20, 1964) or a late date in the month. Production was very close in this era, and I would look for a block dated close to the A145 of your heads.Your block should be A105 thru A 175 and not vary much from these dates to be dead nuts on. Your body was made on F20 or January 20 ( A was for August, first month of production) Your car was built around around Jan 27,1965 ( 112 cars per day), so your engine stamp should read somewhere around F0120HH(F for Flint engine plant, assembly date Jan 20, 327/365hp=HH) for standard igintion, or F0120 HL with transitor ignition. Look at your distributor. There should be a little metal band around the shaft. It should have the #1111069 for std. ign, or 1111060 for TI ignition. There will also be a date on the tag.

Just for fun, what is the engine block and casting number? And what is on the engine pad ( passanger front of block where head meets the block)

The hunt is almost as much fun as restoring the car.

Good Luck,
Jim

Chuck Gongloff

Great info from Jim. The only thing I would add is that when you're looking for a block, make sure you get a so called "Flint" block, not a Tonawanda block. With RARE exception, all small blocks used in Corvettes were Flint, actually Saginaw cast blocks.

You can tell a Tonawanda block by the "2 digit" casting date. Flint blocks use a "1 digit" casting date. Example: A155 = Jan 15, 65 for a Flint block, A1565 = Jan. 15, 65 for a Tonawanda block. Also, Tonawanda assembled blocks are stamped T XXXX in the assembly date, whereas Flint blocks are stamped F XXXX Hope this helps. Chuck

Rumble 65

Jim,
You sure seem to have dialed in on this stuff very well! :blueangel: Thanks for all the info. I will begin looking for a 3782870 block with date of L204 to A175. I'll start right here on the Forum want ads.
That's weird that the body dates start with A for August! I would have expected same codes as for the engine related stuff. The distributor red tag label has 1111069 DELCO REMY 0 G 9 stamped on it. First digit is either a 0 = zero or O. I can't guess what these digits mean.
Jim the original engine is long gone - at least 2 owners before myself. When I purchased the car it had a passenger 350 block ( so I have been told from local Corvette shop ) and the parts that I have been describing installed on it. I gave this passenger 350 block up but kept the parts when I went for a new rebuilt. Now I've had a change of heart and have not install the new 350. It has block #3970010 date J2o8 and V1023TB C9J121425 on stamp area.

Rumble 65

Hello Chuck!
I recognize your sign from many posts here on the forum since I have been a member. My '69 T Top was originally Monaco Orange like yours.
I will take your advise and look for the correct casting date with 4 digits ( not 5) indicating a Flint block. :seeya

Kid_Again

...uh oh, ANOTHER loss to the dark side....well, if you're bound to build a "correct" engine, you'll also need the correct oil pan - for the 365hp variant (perhaps also for the 350hp, not sure right now), a special oil pan with a baffle was used...you CAN find them at swap meets but my own experience is the ratio is about 1:50...rotsa ruck

...even though you didn't ask, i think you should just lie down till this passes...but if you look at my sig, you'll see i'm not one to give advice on this


[Modified by Kid_Again, 9:55 AM 11/28/2002]

jimgessner

Thanks for the very accurate tip Chuck on Flint vs. Tonawanda motors.

The date code on your distributor 0G9( July 9,1970) is very interesting. I think it is a GM service replacement. An owner went to his friendly Chevrolet dealer in the fall of 1970 and said he needed a new distributor for a 327/365hp Corvette 1965 motor. And they went to the parts bin, and handed him a new 069 distributor. Same unit as a the original. Repo correct dated tags are available.

The 3970010 engines were made from late April, early May 1969 thru 1975. the V1023TBC shows Oct 23 assembly, and the TBC code is not in any of my source material. Three letter codes started in 1970 as far as I know. The 350 "010" engines were used in lots of applications. They came in two bolt and 4 bolt configurations. I had a 70 Camaro Z-28 with the 360 solid lifter motor and 4 speed and 4:11 rear. That car was by far the strongest small block I ever owned ( sans my 64 B/P race car).

So if you want to drive and enjoy your 65, I would bolt that motor dressed with the 365hp accessories into your car and enjoy.

A friend of mine bought a white black 250hp , 3 speed Corvette 2 years ago. He always wanted a red / black 65 fuel injected convertible. So last summer, had his engine man do up an "010" 350 LT-1 solid lifter motor with Edlebrock alluminum heads and bolted a 65 Rochester Fuel Injection unit on.He had the car painted FERRARI red and installed the correct radiator support and emblems air cleaner etc so the motor "looks" right.Ken changed the rear end to 3:55 gears, replaced the 3 speed with a NEW Super T-10 and restored the tired interior.He added an original set of American Torque Thrust "D's" for the 1965 look, and a beautiful Jet coated custom header and exhaust and now is driving the car of his dreams. Not NCRS correct, but when he DRIVES into Bob's Big Boy Cruise in Burbank on Friday eve, everyone goes "WOW!!" Two weeks ago, he made a couple of passes at the drags just for fun 12.35 @ 114.00 and the car gets 17.5 MPG on 92 pump gas.

Food for thought, and while you are having fun with the car, then look for a correct block and work on getting your NCRS motor to "go with" when you decide to sell or at a later date do that body off show restoration.

Remember, no dress rehersal here, just fun. And these cars will lead you to great friends and expierences.

Happy Turkey Day,
Jim


[Modified by jimgessner, 10:17 AM 11/28/2002]

Rumble 65

:lol: Kid_Again I promise not to go too far down the dark side! Its a very long story, which I don't want to bore everyone here with but, I am nearly full circle now with my thoughts on what to put back into the'65. Since the parts I have saved seem to be original, I am thinking it would be nice to go back that route if possible.

396 RAT

Dark side?
Even if your block #'s dont match
the 65 327 365hp was IMHO the best Small Block
of all Mid years, bar none. Even if your block is off date wise.
Build it to 65 365 spec's! (4 bolt, heads, cam, pistons etc)
That's what counts.
You don't need the latest and greatest innovation in small
blocks. The high winding 365 is the way to go.
Great solid lifter rumble & spins up in a micro second.
Shift at 6500 without a care in the world.
Great fun!
But, re-stamping blocks is the dark side.
Re-creating the orig drive train's is not.
Again, Just my opinion.

JohnZ

"TBC" is a '71 truck 350 4-barrel. You can also tell a Flint (Saginaw-cast) block from a Tonawanda block (in additon to the single-digit vs. 2-digit year code) by the presence of a square-head 1/8"NPT pipe plug just rearward of the timing cover at about 11 o'clock - Flint Engine needed this hole for their oil gallery drilling process, but Tonawanda used a different drilling process and didn't need the hole, so it wasn't cast or drilled into Tonawanda blocks :cheers:

Kid_Again

...sorry, by "dark side" i meant the #match thing ....JOHN LOLLI, where are YOU???????

...i believe my roadster was a 350hp trimmed out by bubba as a 365hp but now that i've done the sb the way i want, i have to agree that a high compression, solid lifter small block is one hell of a lot of fun

Rumble 65

John,
Very interesting info on the Flint vs Tonawanda blocks. I just looked at the "'71 truck" block and it has the 1/8" plug. So it is a Flint block. A very easy thing to look at for determining the source! Thanks John.

Surfin' around I found the following link helpful for block and head info: http://www.mortec.com/ It shows the 3970010 block as being either 2 or 4 bolt main used in 307 '69 Z28,327 '69 truck or 350 '69-80 engines. I paid $125 extra for a 4 bolt main from my engine builder. Without taking the pan off I won't be able to tell. I see the 3782870 block I'm looking for is listed as '62-'67 327 2 bolt main variety. That surprises me a bit. I would have thought that the 365 HP Vette would use the 4 bolt variety. Maybe this info source is not reliable.

JohnZ

ALL 327's were 2-bolts - GM never made a 4-bolt 327 block :cheers:

Rumble 65

John,
I was confused then by 396 Rats post which he stated spec's for the 327/365 included 4 bolt.
Doing more searching thru the archives of the Forum, I found that several people have used a place called Classic Engine Company out of Oshkosh,Wi to build up relicas of their engine. I tried calling them, but they must be off for the holiday so I'll try again next week.