PreviousOwner

All, If I'm not mistaken, the NCM, in effect insures through AMIG (American Modern Insurance Group) or some other subsidiary of USAA?
I need to relate a VERY recent AND disturbing situation with AMIG.

History:
I have been a member of USAA in general for around 35 years. Married into the benefit.
A had a car in transport covered through their/my daily driver policy which I believe was the County Mutual subsidiary back in 2009. Of course, the '68 Camaro was damaged during transport but at least I had added it to some policy!
However, I had an adjuster out in just a few days, and, from memory, he wrote me a check on the spot, to the tune of $800. He also suggested I change the car over to the collector car division (AMIG) as it
would be cost prohibitive to continue on my daily driver policy. Made a call, or two, and got it done.
Have since had numerous collectible cars insured through AMIG. Every single one was easy to add. Take a picture of all 4 sides, show/tell us where it's going to be stored, the mileage driven and what type
of driving, and, what you feel the value is. NEVER a problem. Have even raised the values a few times as work done or inflation creep made my current values out of date. Average of 2 cars covered at
around $600-700 per year ALWAYS at the value number I suggested. No claims, so, since 2009, approximately $7000 spent by me with no outflow on their part.

Fast Forward to 2 weeks back:
Bought a modified '75 280Z on the BaT site. Well, "technically" didn't buy it because it didn't meet reserve. After many discussions with the Seller, we agreed upon a $ number quite a bit higher than the final bid.
So, I do my usual phone call, emailed pictures, where it would be stored, etc. etc. The transport companies were really slowing down as the holidays approached so, some delays there, but, finally got it in
and called back to "officially" add the car. (although since then, I've learned "possession" of the car changes upon dollars trading hands (AMIG couldn't answer that for me))
The lady this time ask me about modifications (yes), nitrous (no), over $10k in body work (yes), where it would be stored and how driven and how many miles, what's the value, etc. etc.
I'm kinda thinking, "did you look at the
pictures, or, look at the notes of the other lady I talked to before the car got on the transport truck?"
Anyway, she quotes me a dollar figure very much in line with what my 2 Corvettes are costing me and even gives me a pro-rated amount for when the policy renews. All is well.

NOPE! I get an email quite a few days later saying they have not insured the car and do not plan on doing so at MY value because they did a search on the Vin# and found the incomplete auction on BaT.
Actually, they didn't say that, but, I KNEW what the final bid was and that's the only place it was publicized.
My response= "The Car did NOT meet reserve....you can't use that last bid as the value".
Their response= "Yes, we can because as the hammer drops that reflects true market value"
My response= "This wasn't Barrett-Jackson or Mecum (who even has The Bid Goes On), this was just a website, similar to eBay. Do you really think every car on eBay doesn't get negotiated to a potentially higher price?"
Their response= "Doesn't matter our underwriter has spoken and she's not budging"
Me = "Can I discuss this with said adjuster? What about this wire transfer of a substantially higher amount sitting right here on my desk?"
Them = "No you cannot speak the to the underwriter" and "No, wire transfers can be faked and *might* include extra parts or something""We *might* consider a Bill of Sale"
Me = "Don't have one, don't need one in the State of Texas.....can't they be faked too?"
Them = Crickets aka Silence
Me = "OK, guess I'll be taking my business elsewhere"

Ok, so forum view on just WTH is going on here? Hagerty insured it. Yes, for about twice my original quote from AMIG. Hagerty also sent me a quote on the 2 existing cars and it's about double what AMIG is.
Since when is a "reserve not met" last bid on BaT considered the gospel for car values? Help me out here. My gut reaction is to go up the chain of command at AMIG. But that takes time...more time, in addition
to the 6-8 hours already spent on this cluster. Still might. SOMETHING is going on at AMIG. Be careful! Hey, at least they cover injury to your pet....I'm assuming it's got to have it's seat belt on .

Sorry for the rant. I'd hate to know what would happen if I had a REAL claim.
Best,
PO

ncminsurance

Hey PO, if you were our client we would have asked for a bill of sale showing the purchase price. We would have insured it for the purchase price (minus tax, title, license, shipping.). We do this all the time, and because of our volume we have complete underwriting authority.

Sorry for the trouble you experienced!

Frankie the Fink

A good example of why some here who say that American Modern is behind most all the classic car storefronts so just pick any one of them -- are wrong...

ptuner11

Haggerty paid very quickly, no hassles at all, on my 60 when it got "keyed' on driver door. very pleased. $6000

Duck916

Yeah, I understand your pain here. I've worked in the insurance industry, including classic car coverage, for 33 years.

All underwriters are alert to overinsurance--If I raised the stated value on my '64 to $100,000 I'm sure my insurer would ask some questions. Whether my answers satisfied the underwriter or not would depend on how good my explanation was and how reasonable the underwriter is. If your stated value is 3 times the last offer on BaT, I can understand the underwriter's concern. If it's 10% higher, the concern makes very little sense.

If you want them to reconsider, I'd recommend a polite email explaining the transaction and including some comparable sales if you can find any.

Finally, as NCMInsurance notes, some agents have more authority and more "sway" with the carriers than others. A high-volume agent who has a low loss ratio can get special approvals that other agents can't.

RacerRik

How are you folks getting such inexpensive insurance from these collector car companies. I got quotes from several of them including NCM and Haggerty for my 2018 Stingray and all the quotes were near or over $1000 and about the same as my regular insurance. Perhaps you are choosing low liability amounts? I just don't get it.

ncminsurance

C1 & C2 Rates (the forum that you are in) are different than a C7. The risk generally is much lower than a newer vehicle. Did you complete a quote with us over the phone or through email? Whats your email address and I can look over your quote.

Thanks!

Adam Boca

RacerRik

I filled out the quote request on your website. I don't understand why risk would be lower on an older car. If anything, older cars are not as safe as newer cars, so liability seems like it should be higher. And if the declared value is similar, you risk for comprehensive coverage should be similar or less since newer cars can be more easily replaced or repaired.

Jackfit

I am always taking my car to a show or to a mechanic...when ever I drive!

Jack

ncminsurance

What is your email address? We will look into it...

I am not an actuary, so I do not have the actual data to back up what I am talking about, however, being in the business we see far more claims with newer cars than older ones.

RatDog

We drive our C6 much more than we drive our C2 and we drive the C6 to places we can’t drive the C2. For example, as much as I would have liked to drive the C2 to the doctor this morning, that’s considered a daily driver errand and not covered.

The more your car stays in the garage, the less the risk of an insurance claim. Hence, the lower cost.

Steve

RacerRik

It appears you do not have the private message feature enabled so I can't send you my email address.

ncminsurance

Email us at info@ncminsurance.com. Thank you!

PreviousOwner

Thanks Adam,
Soooo, does the NCM (this wasn't a Corvette anyway) in fact, insure through USAA, or one of it's subsidiaries? And, do you guys insure the classic Datsuns? I ask for future reference.

Why is a Bill of Sale considered the ultimate proof of purchase price? It was bought from an individual, not a dealer. My thinking, obviously in error, was that a Wire Transfer from my CU would trump any kind of other proof. Can't a Bill of Sale be faked? Way more easily than a wire transfer? Quick math reflects an approximate 20% paid price over final high bid. Nothing crazy.

I've never been asked for a Bill of Sale in 10 years of doing business with AMIG. Never!

No comp sales as this car has been completely restored with an IMSA style front end, and, a complete wide-body kit. Similar maybe to the Scarabs of the time is the best comparison.

Again, (my personal opinion) is that something is going on in the internal workings of AMIG. My daily driver 350Z premium kept going up and up and up with absolutely no claims and 5000 miles/year driven. I'm 63 with a FICO in the 800s. Turns out they were shifting it to a subsidiary, the County Mutual referred to above. It is now with Allstate. Be careful out there and read your policy in depth.

ncminsurance

We are not affiliated with USAA, however, USAA may use AMIG or did at one time. If I am not mistaken they use American Collectors out of New Jersey. I do not recall AMIG and USAA being partners on the collector vehicle insurance.

We have always insured any year/make/model collector vehicle. We have never been Corvette specific (that wouldn't be smart business as many owners have multiple types of collector cars).

Bill of Sale is what we use. This is a legal document.

Yellow6t7

FYI...
Reviewed my Corvette Insurance today.
Contacted Hagerty, NCM, Grundy.
Grundy is 2X Hagerty and Hagerty is 40% more than NCM.
All with same coverage and agreed to valve and usage of 3000 miles per year.
Have been with Hagerty 20 years. They couldn't be more helpful. Just not sure worth 40% more!

ncminsurance

Great talking with you!