jrs 427

Checking the cars for sale its hard to find a C-1 that isn't in the 50-70k range. Hard to believe when one can buy new 2019s advertised for 46k , C-4s 6-12k, and C-6s in the 30s. If the over seas buying continues soon they will be scarce hidden behind locked , chained doors.

AZDoug

Not just Corvettes going overseas.

I know a classic car dealer who mostly deals in '20s-'50s Fords, and he sends a lot of those overseas. He recently bougth a collection of fifteen 1930s fords, stock to streetrods, and they were all sold to one buyer in New Zealand. I would liked the profit on that deal.

Doug

Robert61

Haven't y'all been keeping up? Old vettes are going to tank like model As.

Dan Hampton

One of the best used car buys on earth are late model Corvettes. I belonged to a Club in Iowa and most of these cars follow a predictable demographic pattern: the owners are 55+, they baby their cars, driving them only on rain free days, 1000-2000 miles a year is the norm, and they see more duty sitting in a climate controlled garage than they do operating on the road.

Lots of inventory out there; not so with the older C1s. Survival rates are low and they have a look all their own. If I had to predict, I would say that the '57 will be odds on favorite of this group going forward over the next decade. That is a hard one to beat in the looks department.

DZAUTO

I've been making this very assertion for MANY, MANY years. Even though MANY, MANY people deny it, it does not seem as though the 57 will ever depreciate ------------ at least not significantly.
MOST NOTABLY, take a look at the 57 Airbox cars. In bone stock trim or heavily race prepared, those cars are literally a "name your price" car. And all the other early (53-62) Corvettes are in lock step right behind them. NO, I don't see the very early Corvettes depreciating like the Model A.
In today's traffic, the Model A is not the best to be tooling around in. But the very early Corvettes, ESPECIALLY WITH SOME SIMPLE UPGRADES, will move right along ----------------------- AND STOP, in virtually any traffic condition. This is not speculation on my part. My 56 has several upgrades which makes it quire road worthy, and stops surprisingly well with NON-power drum brakes!!!
There is a WORLD OF DIFFERENCE in manual hydraulic drum brakes of the 50s-60s and 1920s mechanical brakes. Plus, a 50s V8 engine, properly built and tuned, can triple the speed of a 4cyl Model A, which makes it very nimble on the Interstate.

Dan Hampton

The '56 model has the same uniqueness, especially with a 400 cid, FI dual meter, Muncie. Just the way the Factory should have produced it.

jim lockwood

Careful, Dan. You'll give Tom ideas....

DZAUTO

Nah, I think I've exhausted all my ideas. I just drive it now.

biggd

I honestly don't care what happens to them 20 years from now because I will be relying on my self driving electric car to get me where I want to go and the roads will be a safer place without me at the wheel.

AZDoug

[QUOTE=DZAUTO;1599475514 NO, I don't see the very early Corvettes depreciating like the Model A..[/QUOTE]

A model A doesn't even make a good streetrod in many cases. The body style is clunky, even if you put a modern drivetrain and hyd brakes etc, plus the wood body framing is weak and prone to termites and rot, so you have the expense of steel framing the body if you want an A streetrod, done right..

There is reason '32 and later fords have much better prices.

The only people that passionately collected Model As, grew up with them, in some way or another, and they have mostly passed away, along with the demand for the car.

The '33 Chev Roadster I have, has wood frame body, fortunately, it was garaged, low mileage SoCal car its entire life and the wood is good. I wouldn't consider it street rod material because of the wood framing. It is fine for driving in the rural area I live in, it would get run over in a small to medium size city with its 65 HP, 5.1:1 CR and mechanical brakes.
Doug

RonCL55

You will obviously be in a better place than me. I will be struggling with my V8 powered wheel chair that will have no modern conveniences given that I am a purist.

emccomas

Let me play Devil's Advocate for just a moment...

First lets discard from the discussion those cars that, because of their rarity, will always hold their value..

1. Any 1953 Corvette
2. Any 1955 Corvette
3. Any C1 Fuel Injected Corvette
4. Any C1 pedigreed ex-race car Corvette (a C1 with provable decent race history)
5. Any low mileage, original, unmolested C1 Corvette
6. Any C1 Corvette authentically optioned with big brakes, big wheels, big gas tank, etc.

On the other end of the scale are the fairly common, low horsepower or NOM , previously wrecked, no significant options.

These cars just cry out to be restro-modded.

OK, that covers both ends of the scale, now lets think about the "tweeners", the cars in between these two extremes.

The demographics of the crowd that remembers these cars new or almost new is rapidly disappearing. And many of those that are still around want creature comforts to accompany their C1 styling.

A friend of mine that runs a restoration shop bought a 58 project car from the widow. The car was an original FI car, but the FI was long gone, and the front end was banged up badly. He built that car into a six figure resto-mod for a customer. The customer had the car about 6 months, then sent it to the auction. The owner did not care for the "lack of creature" comforts. The resto-mod has all of the standard add ons (A.C, P/S, P/B, cruise control, P/W, etc.) but did not have heated seats, six way power seats, on and on and on. The car sold for $175K out of the block. It has since changed hands again for a bit more than $175K.

A nicely restored all original 58 FI car would not bring that kind of money.

Used, unrestored, not totaqlly complete or original 54s are relatively cheap. Not great cars to begin with, and plenty of them around.

Probably the most desirable C1, all other things being equal, is the 1957 Corvette. Fairly low production numbers (6339 total), lots of possible engine options, first year for FI all add up. But nice original 1953-1957 parts are expensive, and in some cases very difficult to locate. And you still have C1 ride and handling; not bad back in the day, but the day was a long time ago.

So, starting with a decent, relatively solid 57 body (or even not so solid), the aftermarket options are almost endless, and you can go from a monster 1000 hp hot rod to a nice 350 hp cruiser, with options across the board.

So, unless the car is already fairly solid and original, an original restoration does not make much sense. The demographcs, and the market, have both changed over the past 20 years.

And then there is the "cut up a nice original, bit nothing special car" and turn it into a resto-mod". I saw this happen a few years ago with an NCRS top flight, Bloomington Gold 340hp 63 coupe. The car was red on black, and nicely done. It had all of the restoration awards, and the owner decided to sell the car. The car sold, and the first thing the new owner did was have the body pulled from the chassis. The chassis with matching number engine and trans was sold off, and a resto-mod chassis was build for the car. It got a LS motor, 6 speed trans, and all of the bells and whistles.

The owner decided to go this way because he did not want to spend a lot of money and effort fixing possible bad body work. The body needed almost no mods / fixes, or even paint work. The owner said he wasn't sure he saved any money doing it this way, but he sure saved a lot of time.

I have heard this same story about 58-62 cars. Take a nice original car and pull it apart. The C1 chassis market is almost flooded (well, maybe not flooded, but there are plenty around) with good used or restored C1 chassis' and drive trains.

This does two things. 1) It increases the number of original parts that are in the market for those people that are restoring original cars and 2) it brings a different demographic into the classic Corvette market, the younger crowd that wants the classic look with all of the creature comforts.

OK, that's my take from the Devil's Advocate point of view

racefan2

Just from my experience, the prices on these cars being in the 50K to 70K range is easy to hit considering the cost of restoring one. If you start with a rough car missing half its parts, you will be looking at pushing 50K for the restoration even if you do most of the work yourself. The cost of resto parts is crazy high and if you add any outside labor the cost will skyrocket.

emccomas

I concur 100%, but what we are talking about is the value of a restored car, not the cost to restore one.

Today, more so than perhaps any time in recent history, it is very easy to get upside down in a C1 (that means you have more money in the car than it is actually worth).

You can buy a nice C1 already restored for far less than the cost of restoring one. But one factor still sits out there; owners / restorers who want to sell their car, but will not accept a loss in doing so.

I may be tangentially involved in a prime example of this:

I purchased my fully restored (actually over-restored) 64 coupe for $50K. The asking price was $59K, but the consignment shop that had the car told me I could get it for $53,900. The car had been sitting in the consignment shop for quite some time, and the over-restoration was apparently turning some potential buyers off.

Examples of over-restoration:

A 1967 power brake setup was added to the car, The car did not originally have power brakes.
A 1967 ish power steering setup was added to the car. The car did not originally have power steering.
Fake knock-off wheels were added to the car.
Four wheel disc brakes were added to the car. Actually, a complete 1965 chassis was restored for the car in place of the original 1964 drum brake setup.
The engine compartment and under hood was smoothed over and painted body color.
The hood hinges were chrome plated
The door latches were chrome plated

You get the idea.

The car was no where near a resto-mod, as it had it's original 300hp engine and original 4 speed transmission.

But the car was no where near an original restoration, with the add on parts and the chrome plating.

The car was tastefully done, but did not really "fit" into any category.

The previous owners (husband and wife) had the car restored to their specifications; it was their baby, their "keep forever" car.

They sent the car to a high end restoration shop, which charged $95 an hour labor rate. The car was / is solid and rust free, with very little body damage over the years (rear tail light and passenger side front turn signal corner panels were replaced, all other panels were original).

When all was said and done, the restoration bill was a bit over $104,000. Yes I said one hundred and four thousand for a 300hp, 4 speed 1964 coupe.

The car was painted Silver Blue with a Silver interior, which I love. The original colors were Daytona Blue with a dark blue interior,

So, an almost base 1964 coupe, painted the wrong color, wrong color interior, P/S and P/B added using incorrect (but still GM) parts, over-restored, with $104K invested in it ended up being sold to me for $50K.

It turned out to be a distress sale. Two years (and 850 miles) after the car was completed, the couple got a divorce. The husband was apparently trying to find a way to hang onto the car, but the wife insisted that it had to be sold, So it went to a consignment shop.

One interesting side note: I called to make my $50K offer on the car. I was told on that day that the car was sold for $53,900. I said OK, and started looking at a Silver on red 64 coupe, ex-top flight car with factory 300hp, powerglide, A/C, P/S, and P/B. I offered the owner $60K on that car, but he would not budge from $67,500. His original asking price was $75K. We talked and he said he had x amount of dollars in the car. I replied that what he had in the car did not matter, what mattered was what the car was worth. Anyway, we were $7,500 apart, and neither one of us would budge.

The day (literally about two hours after) I made the $60K offer on the red 64, I got a call from the consignment shop. The deal on the Silver Blue 64 fell through, the buyers could not get financing. I had previously told the consignment shop (regarding the Silver Blue 64) and the owner of the Red 64 that my offer was cash. So now I have an offer pending on the red 64 for $60K, and the Silver Blue 64 is available for $50K. I preferred the Silver Blue car (4 speed, but no A/C) over the red car (powerglide, A/C but $10K more money).

Fortunately for me, the owner of the red car turned down my offer of $60K later that day. I first clarified with him that, since he was declining my offer, my offer was not longer on the table, and I was free to pursue other options. He agreed. I immediately called the consignment shop and made the deal on the Silver Blue 64, subject to an independent inspection, and my personal final inspection. A $500 deposit help the car for me.

I had a local Corvette gut that was a friend of a friend do an inspection on the car. His inspection was good, and it was clear that I now needed to see the car in person. I flew to Denver the next week, looked the car over, took it for a test drive (which included some running time on the interstate). Everything checked out, and I bought the car that day. The consignment shop had arrangements with a car hauler (a two car enclosed trailer) at a reasonable price so I set that all up and went home.

The rest, as they say, is history.

Frankie the Fink

You start off that treatise with one sentence about the C1 then go into a lengthy example of something ? on a C2...

They are widely variant - appealing to different types of people mostly and with differing maintenance requirements and ability to be modified...

I sold my '61 3 years ago for $65K and got another $4K-$5K for the spare parts I'd accumulated. I don't feel I left anything on the table. I doubt I could get that much for it now.... I think the appeal of these cars in original trim is waning and, unless restomodded, that will continue.

I may be wrong but I'm not seeing a cadre of young new purchasers that want to slide behind that "school bus" steering wheel and wrestle that center link/king pin steering around or deal with the funky wiper system, and the cowl vent A/C, etc.

Right now I think its just old guys buying cars from even older guys who are "getting out"..

emccomas

Yes, but I feel like they (The C1 and the C2 markets) are closely related, so I felt justified in sharing this experience.

The C2 market is stronger that the C1 market, but originality is taking a beating over resto-mods.

I am thinking about the number of guys on the forum that have purchased reasonably correct and original C2s, with the started intention of resto-modding them.

Summary from my treatise:
The market for original BASIC C2 cars is down.
The market for original BASIC C1 cars is really down / weak.

I do not expect either one of those situations to improve.

I went out this past weekend to a local dealer in tri-five (1955-1957) classic chevy parts. The fri-five market, which 10 years ago was strong for solid original cars is now also significantly down / weak.

Originally restored 1955-1957 2 door hardtops, and even convertibles and Nomads are down across the board, AND SO IS THE MARKET FOR ORIGINAL PARTS FOR THESE CARS.

A prime example (since I own one) is 1956 single four barrel air cleaner. Prices ranged in the $300 to $350 area for a nice original air cleaner that needed little work to be restored to show quality. Today you would be fortunate to get $200 for the same part.

10-12 years ago I sold a 1957 Corvette steering column, complete, no damage, no steering wheel but did include a pitman arm for $400 at one of the Corvette shows in Knoxville, TN. They buyer was another dealer, who later sold it for more money,

A year ago I sold a 1956 steering column in the very same condition for $100 plus shipping.

I have a complete set of 1956 Corvette power top switches, and an early 1956 Corvette and 2x4 passenger car dual point distributor that I cannot give away (figuratively speaking, as I an not actually giving them away).

racefan2

Fortunately for most of us these cars are bought and/or restored because we enjoy them and not to try to make a buck on them. I’m pretty sure mine won’t be worth what I will have in it.

emccomas

Very true, and the personal satisfaction of restoring a car yourself has some intrinsic value above the value of the car.

On phenomenon I am seeing is cars appearing on the market that have been restored in the past 20 years or so, gone through the judging circuit, generally scored well, and the owner is now getting older and getting out of the old car hobby.

But the asking prices on these cars generally reflect more along the lines of what the owner has in the car, as opposed to the current market value of the car. And many of these owners will not negotiate down to the current market values.

Dan Hampton

Interesting perspectives. If the money is there, the trend is toward resto-mods. Frankie's statement about old guys buying cars from even older guys may be spot on. Where I see a real drag in the market is on solid unrestored base C2 cars. The numbers are plentiful, vis a vis C1s, and that is a part of the market that has, imho, no upside.

emccomas

So lets recap the current status:

1. Original C1 and C2 cars are on the decline, market wise.

2. Cars that are suitable for resto-modding are gaining interest, improving market wise

3. EX- top flight / Bloomington cars that still retain their originality are declining in value

4. Ex hot rod C1 and C2 cars make good restor-mod platforms, but asking prices are still on the high side

5. Cars with significant body modifications are not very desirable, and this is reflected in the market prices

6. Non-original cars with good bodies, and especially ones with good paint (quality work and desirable colors) and seen as good resto-mod starting points, and the market reflects this

7. Older hobbyists are getting out of the hobby, but their high dollar restored original cars are not bringing the money they once did