When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
It's a new cap and the terminals inside the cap are fine. I don't see any evidence of where that rotor could have wacked anything. And I couldn't find the chipped away piece of plastic from next to the rotor blade anywhere. The cap and rotor came from NAPA, and the rotor wasn't one of those thin flimsy plastic ones with excess plastic needing to be trimmed. I think the old one that I put back in was an MSD or Mallory (dark red), which I'll stick with from now on.
I don't know if it was just mid-year big blocks or what, but I recall reading about extended tip rotors being used to make sure that there was good contact with the distributor cap contacts inside. And I've used them in the past. I wonder if the distributor cap is more narrow up top?! Weird!
In the early days all rotors had the "extended tip". That changed around 1969 when emissions "improvements" started to appear in the engines: i.e. "R" type plugs, shorter "E" rotor tips. "R" marked distributor caps, etc.
I personally saw no difference with these factory changes, but some of the high-winding small block motors ignition systems started "breaking up" at the higher RPMs with the shortened rotor tip. I am sure it had to due with already marginal ignition voltages. By this time I was already running ACCEL or Mallory Rev-Pol systems and did not have to deal with it. The BB SHP cars got factory TI systems to try and ensure good ignition voltage and plug firing at higher RPMs. Capacitive discharge ignitions became more prevalent in the aftermarket as well during these times.
You probably didn't notice when you signed up here that this forum is all about cars made in that terrible time frame.
The '50's-'60's.
How do you like that little ole Datsun yer drivin'? Do you have any idea how many of these terribly designed SBC engines have been stuck in Datsuns to make them fast?
Ok, I am really sorry, I was being clear that "typical" is what is used today, now. Typically this year 2018. That way we gear ourselves to be thinking more along the lines of what the same technology looks like, except from the future and far refined to be more efficient. That way we know which direction to move when opportunities present themselves.
V8 tech didn't really get "amazing" until 2002. It was pretty hot in 99 but wait until 02+ to use things.
The tech from 02 is extremely cheap now. I just assumed that everybody that knew anything about engines would automatically update to the newest most reliable technology, once it became "free". For example Pick up a 2003 5.3L engine for under $500 and sell the intake manifold, injectors, manifolds, balancer, oil pan, and make the money back, leaving most of a longblock for free to put the special oil pan on and better balancer and a cam/springs for a 500-600rwhp capable daily driver (turbo) or 320-350hp without the turbo. And that isn't even a good price really, just average (free is average, sometimes you can profit and sometimes you can spend a little more for a better engine).
And we didn't even discuss the 4.8L yet, 2002-2004 4.8L Gen3 small block runs on $30 pcm just like 5.3L, can use flex fuel, also supports 500-600rwhp turbocharged, and because 4.8L nobody wants them so they are even cheaper than 5.3L and there are more to choose from. Same piston area as 5.3L means its just a destroked 5.3L.
How many times have you said "I wish I could destroke this engine to see how it would run witha shorter crankshaft" Well now you can just pickup a 4.8L that has factory 200,000 miles of reliability written all over it and test out that "custom" configuration and spin it to 7k this time without risking an expensive engine. You could get 10 of those 4.8L motors for what one custom built engine might cost.
As to datsun: I think datsuns rust really bad and are very heavy. I only can drive a car 2800-3000lbs because of economy reasons.
Ok, I am really sorry, I was being clear that "typical" is what is used today, now. Typically this year 2018. That way we gear ourselves to be thinking more along the lines of what the same technology looks like, except from the future and far refined to be more efficient. That way we know which direction to move when opportunities present themselves.
V8 tech didn't really get "amazing" until 2002. It was pretty hot in 99 but wait until 02+ to use things.
The tech from 02 is extremely cheap now. I just assumed that everybody that knew anything about engines would automatically update to the newest most reliable technology, once it became "free". For example Pick up a 2003 5.3L engine for under $500 and sell the intake manifold, injectors, manifolds, balancer, oil pan, and make the money back, leaving most of a longblock for free to put the special oil pan on and better balancer and a cam/springs for a 500-600rwhp capable daily driver (turbo) or 320-350hp without the turbo. And that isn't even a good price really, just average (free is average, sometimes you can profit and sometimes you can spend a little more for a better engine).
And we didn't even discuss the 4.8L yet, 2002-2004 4.8L Gen3 small block runs on $30 pcm just like 5.3L, can use flex fuel, also supports 500-600rwhp turbocharged, and because 4.8L nobody wants them so they are even cheaper than 5.3L and there are more to choose from. Same piston area as 5.3L means its just a destroked 5.3L.
How many times have you said "I wish I could destroke this engine to see how it would run witha shorter crankshaft" Well now you can just pickup a 4.8L that has factory 200,000 miles of reliability written all over it and test out that "custom" configuration and spin it to 7k this time without risking an expensive engine. You could get 10 of those 4.8L motors for what one custom built engine might cost.
As to datsun: I think datsuns rust really bad and are very heavy. I only can drive a car 2800-3000lbs because of economy reasons.
Kingtal0n, respectfully, I am very happy to say that I don't feel about cars and engines the way you do. Just the opposite. I work on and operate old cars (and old machinery, tools, furniture, etc) BECAUSE of what it is. With all of the textures, noises, quirks, quality, and history involved. I like getting in my 103 year old Ford Model T with no upgrades and feeling the thing breathe and snort like a dragon while running down the road. The smells, sounds, feedback, and experience of every old car I own and drive takes me back to a different era, and is a very visceral experience. I, and many here, have zero use for the latest modern, generic, flavor-of-the-month power in our old cars. If I want modern, I'll drive my modern iron. You can improve a '47 Indian Scout with a Hyabusa engine, and you probably would. But I wouldn't. I am a car guy for the exact opposite reasons you are. Not more right, not more wrong. You make very valid points. Just none that interest me. But then, I'm not interested in any of Boyd Coddingtons cars, either.
Kingtal0n, respectfully, I am very happy to say that I don't feel about cars and engines the way you do. Just the opposite. I work on and operate old cars (and old machinery, tools, furniture, etc) BECAUSE of what it is. With all of the textures, noises, quirks, quality, and history involved. I like getting in my 103 year old Ford Model T with no upgrades and feeling the thing breathe and snort like a dragon while running down the road. The smells, sounds, feedback, and experience of every old car I own and drive takes me back to a different era, and is a very visceral experience. I, and many here, have zero use for the latest modern, generic, flavor-of-the-month power in our old cars. If I want modern, I'll drive my modern iron. You can improve a '47 Indian Scout with a Hyabusa engine, and you probably would. But I wouldn't. I am a car guy for the exact opposite reasons you are. Not more right, not more wrong. You make very valid points. Just none that interest me. But then, I'm not interested in any of Boyd Coddingtons cars, either.
I'm old enough to remember when the V-8 reached one if its pinnacles of performance -- one horsepower per cubic inch....seems trivial now but back then it was like breaking the sound barrier.
When I sit in the 63 I want it to FEEL like 63 - Beatlemania is coming like a tornado, Jackie Kennedy hot as hell looking in long white gloves and hat, I'm looking spiffy in my madras shirt ....all of that nostalgia stuff -- and nothing, NOTHING on the road looks like the new midyear Sting Ray... Guess what ? 60 years later and still nothing does...
Kingtal0n, respectfully, I am very happy to say that I don't feel about cars and engines the way you do. Just the opposite. I work on and operate old cars (and old machinery, tools, furniture, etc) BECAUSE of what it is. With all of the textures, noises, quirks, quality, and history involved. I like getting in my 103 year old Ford Model T with no upgrades and feeling the thing breathe and snort like a dragon while running down the road. The smells, sounds, feedback, and experience of every old car I own and drive takes me back to a different era, and is a very visceral experience. I, and many here, have zero use for the latest modern, generic, flavor-of-the-month power in our old cars. If I want modern, I'll drive my modern iron. You can improve a '47 Indian Scout with a Hyabusa engine, and you probably would. But I wouldn't. I am a car guy for the exact opposite reasons you are. Not more right, not more wrong. You make very valid points. Just none that interest me. But then, I'm not interested in any of Boyd Coddingtons cars, either.
This is exactly why I love old fiberglass, its not about having GPS, a killer sound system or any of the modern conveniences, its about the feeling I get when get in it, or on it, it is a very visceral experience .
Glad you finally removed the cap and saw the obvious. Had you done that from the beginning you would have denied all of us the joy of racking our brains trying to find a nonexistent gremlin.
An entertaining and therapeutic brain buster for all of us.
Now check the shaft for wobble, and don't forget to reset your timing, because (maybe.........or.......not)it should be advanced by about 30 crank degrees after you straighten out your rotor tip. Congratulations: perhaps (or, not) you have stumbled upon a solution to the mysterious and elusive problem of distributor gear dimple alignment. You might want to patent your new invention
Well have you ever had to dissemble a big block's ignition shielding and braided plug wires just to get to that cap??? And especially to find a rare problem like this. But I enjoyed seeing geniuses brain storm! LOL
Kingtal0n, respectfully, I am very happy to say that I don't feel about cars and engines the way you do. Just the opposite. I work on and operate old cars (and old machinery, tools, furniture, etc) BECAUSE of what it is. With all of the textures, noises, quirks, quality, and history involved. I like getting in my 103 year old Ford Model T with no upgrades and feeling the thing breathe and snort like a dragon while running down the road. The smells, sounds, feedback, and experience of every old car I own and drive takes me back to a different era, and is a very visceral experience. I, and many here, have zero use for the latest modern, generic, flavor-of-the-month power in our old cars. If I want modern, I'll drive my modern iron. You can improve a '47 Indian Scout with a Hyabusa engine, and you probably would. But I wouldn't. I am a car guy for the exact opposite reasons you are. Not more right, not more wrong. You make very valid points. Just none that interest me. But then, I'm not interested in any of Boyd Coddingtons cars, either.
My point has the sole requirement that the vehicle be your only car. Therefore it must be "free" to drive, maintain, and achieve excellent economy.
This can only be done by using the latest technology in custom applications.
The minute you say, "I can have a second car" you are able to maintain and restore old technology for the sake of it's museum-like qualities and other aspects you describe, which I appreciate as anything else, but isn't practical in a single daily driver vehicle.
Well have you ever had to dissemble a big block's ignition shielding and braided plug wires just to get to that cap??? And especially to find a rare problem like this. But I enjoyed seeing geniuses brain storm! LOL
It was simply deductive reasoning. I eliminated the things that could not cause the problem, then focused on the items that could. The results pointed directly to rotor/cap alignment.
My point has the sole requirement that the vehicle be your only car. Therefore it must be "free" to drive, maintain, and achieve excellent economy.
This can only be done by using the latest technology in custom applications.
The minute you say, "I can have a second car" you are able to maintain and restore old technology for the sake of it's museum-like qualities and other aspects you describe, which I appreciate as anything else, but isn't practical in a single daily driver vehicle.
When my son was getting his feet wet on his first new car, a hi-po Mustang about 1992 and wanted to start modifying everything, I told him the worst thing he could do was start modifying and racing the car he had to rely on to get to work and back every day. He didn't listen of course. He was about the age you (kingtalon) seem to be. Roller cam kit, Twisted Wedge heads, competition headers, slicks, changed the rear gear.
Here is is about 25 years later and he finally admitted to me, he should have taken my advice. It was good then he said, he just didn't realize it.
PS. My first daily driver hot rod was my '55 Ford with a hopped up 312 Thunder Bird Special engine. Clay Smith Cam, Dual four manifold. I didn't do a good rebuild on it and it scattered. Next was a '56 Bel Air. Two four barrels, '56 Corvette cam and later changed to 097. 4.56 gears, floor shift. That car lasted me a good while but it ate me up in gasoline costs, even at $0.32/gal.
Every time I pulled in the driveway at home, the doors would fly open along with the hood and I just couldn't wait to get started improving my efficiency and performance.
My dad told me, don't mess with the car you have to drive to work or you might start missing some income. Further, if it's running okay, quit messing with it. Do you think I listened?
When my son was getting his feet wet on his first new car, a hi-po Mustang about 1992 and wanted to start modifying everything, I told him the worst thing he could do was start modifying and racing the car he had to rely on to get to work and back every day.
And you knew this to be true because........ you have personal experience with this from when you were 17 years old? LOL
I think you and I had similar aspirations growing up but looking at this picture of you, looks like your stuff was a little more technologically advanced than my rides.
I think you and I had similar aspirations growing up but looking at this picture of you, looks like your stuff was a little more technologically advanced than my rides.
OMG, where did you find that picture? LOL That was me at about 13 years old. My grandfather built that car for me. The first of several black race cars. (I must have posted that picture somewhere)
Such things can be tricky to troubleshoot - my '61 had a "bobble" coming home late one dark night....an occasional stumble and inconsistent throttle response. Got home fine - the next morning I found a big hunk of black plastic on the intake manifold.... Couldn't believe I made it home once I saw the damage. I didn't want to even think about what could have happened if I had a small fuel leak nearby.
Screw came out of the rotor and the pictures are the result.
Last edited by Frankie the Fink; 07-12-2018 at 07:06 PM.
Frankie, I'm looking at exactly what happened to my rotor. I just didn't have ANY damage inside the cap, which boggles me. Both rotor screws were tight also.
Any idea HOW this happened inside your cap? I'm sure you had the rotor screws tight. Do you think it was the (extended tip?) rotor?
I've owned 3 C2's (one a '66 427/425 that I restored back to T.I. ignition) and 7 C3's over the past 40 years and never had this happen. Nor did I ever hear of it happening, until now. I believe in maintaining originality of an original car and living in that moment in time, as several have mentioned above. But cheap sh*t parts need to be called out, at least for safety reasons. So when I read on the forum about the drop in quality of certain parts, and who it's now made by, I really value that information. I won't expect that info coming from the vendors who sell those parts.
When my son was getting his feet wet on his first new car, a hi-po Mustang about 1992 and wanted to start modifying everything, I told him the worst thing he could do was start modifying and racing the car he had to rely on to get to work and back every day. He didn't listen of course. He was about the age you (kingtalon) seem to be. Roller cam kit, Twisted Wedge heads, competition headers, slicks, changed the rear gear.
Here is is about 25 years later and he finally admitted to me, he should have taken my advice. It was good then he said, he just didn't realize it.
PS. My first daily driver hot rod was my '55 Ford with a hopped up 312 Thunder Bird Special engine. Clay Smith Cam, Dual four manifold. I didn't do a good rebuild on it and it scattered. Next was a '56 Bel Air. Two four barrels, '56 Corvette cam and later changed to 097. 4.56 gears, floor shift. That car lasted me a good while but it ate me up in gasoline costs, even at $0.32/gal.
Every time I pulled in the driveway at home, the doors would fly open along with the hood and I just couldn't wait to get started improving my efficiency and performance.
My dad told me, don't mess with the car you have to drive to work or you might start missing some income. Further, if it's running okay, quit messing with it. Do you think I listened?
A word to the wise.
I can only keep 1 car and it must be something that I can change every single day. I dont mind old things I prefer 69 Camaro, I just need economy for saving fuel so it needs modern sequential EFI and a manual transmission.
Fuel economy is #1 concern for me over all else. I have studied extensively to achieve max economy situations for vehicles.
The key to defeating power/weight with a daily/economy is to use mostly/only OEM parts. In 1998, the power/weight ratio of a 2800lb Nissan using 2.0L of displacement original equipment engine is similar to camaro/corvette. Approx 300bhp is factory for Nissan 2800lb vehicle in Japan, with 2.0L and 32mpg highway was available in 1998. 280rwhp with all original equipment in 1998 with this engine and basic turbocharged upgrade that every engine needs brings it up to a modest 350-380rwhp using still all factory parts. That 1/4 is approx 11.6 at 122mph I believe became a standard among 240sx owners with this OEM engine. I drove one since 2005, for 10 years and only changed the oil eventually sold the car with the still 250,000miles original 2.0L from Japan running healthy. I even rebuilt a transmission for it that I never got to use.
I am sure the chevy can do similar, they just lag a bit behind Japan in terms of reliability. To Japan 1998 was a GREAT year, and 2002 was amazing. For Chevrolet, 1998 was terrible. 2002 was actually pretty good. 2004 is where you want to be for most "oldest $30 hardware 411pcm flex fuel 700-1000rwhp capable" All it needs is a turbocharger which increases density of air and will give back almost a MPG to most engines during normal driving. So I am now using 02-04 chevy drivetrain parts to meet these goals instead of older, Japanese tech in the same car. Since new displacement is much higher I can make around double the power of a 2.0L (500-600rwhp) and still be well below the maximum potential of these parts to perform in a real drag racing application. Using an OEM chevrolet motor and 93 octane fuel- for how many years? Will it go 10 years? This is what I intend to find out, more or less.
Any idea HOW this happened inside your cap? I'm sure you had the rotor screws tight.
But cheap sh*t parts need to be called out, at least for safety reasons. So when I read on the forum about the drop in quality of certain parts, and who it's now made by, I really value that information. I won't expect that info coming from the vendors who sell those parts.
I remember what he told us about that (loose) rotor at the time it happened.
Did you straighten the tip on your broken rotor and re-install it as I suggested above just for a test?
I remember what he told us about that (loose) rotor at the time it happened.
Did you straighten the tip on your broken rotor and re-install it as I suggested above just for a test?
No Mike. Once I replaced the rotor with the one I had taken out, I knew that the problem was corrected. And that was enough for me. Even though there is no evidence of any damage inside the cap, other that a light scrape mark on the side of some of the contacts (before the rotor tip got wacked out of place, I assume), it was fine. But I ordered a new MSD cap and rotor, which I'll be installing tonight. This car is a one family owned treasure, bought new by my brother when I was 12, and I take NO chances experimenting or duplicating a problem. Frankie sure proved to me that it can happen!
07-11-2018, 11:14 AM
Had you done that from the beginning you would have denied all of us the joy of racking our brains trying to find a nonexistent gremlin.
)it should be advanced by about 30 crank degrees after you straighten out your rotor tip. Congratulations: perhaps (or, not) you have stumbled upon a solution to the mysterious and elusive problem of distributor gear dimple alignment. You might want to patent your new invention
