I've moved on from midyears
02-05-2016, 10:51 AM
#21
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Exactly, what a great deal buying used!
You're in the same boat if not worse trying to restore a 50 year old midyear. Buy some POS for 30 - 40K and have to put 30 - 40K into it and hope it turns out. More than likely you find out there is rot everywhere and the panels have been hacked up. And that "orginal" drive train was um....not.
You're in the same boat if not worse trying to restore a 50 year old midyear. Buy some POS for 30 - 40K and have to put 30 - 40K into it and hope it turns out. More than likely you find out there is rot everywhere and the panels have been hacked up. And that "orginal" drive train was um....not.
The problem with Cobra replicas (except possibly Shelby continuation models and Kirkham) is the original cost of purchase (or building). They are generally not worth in resale what it takes for the first owner to purchase - either as a roller and install an engine/transmission or to build from a quality kit.
The first owner or builder is going to take a hit immediately just like buying a new car. But after that initial hit, the values seem to hold more or less fixed. That's why buying a used replica is generally the way to go - for value. If you build one - you get it just like you want - but you will probably take a $10 to $30K hit immediately if you try to sell it.
Just for perspective - I know if my ERA replica had been ordered as a painted roller and outfitted with a no-expense spared FE, it would be a $80k to 90k tab and resale a year later for somewhere around $55k to 60k probably. And it would stay at that level for nearly ever. I loped a chunk of that tab off by buying a semi-roller and doing all the body, paint, assembly myself and having a BB FE motor built using original parts.
The first owner or builder is going to take a hit immediately just like buying a new car. But after that initial hit, the values seem to hold more or less fixed. That's why buying a used replica is generally the way to go - for value. If you build one - you get it just like you want - but you will probably take a $10 to $30K hit immediately if you try to sell it.
Just for perspective - I know if my ERA replica had been ordered as a painted roller and outfitted with a no-expense spared FE, it would be a $80k to 90k tab and resale a year later for somewhere around $55k to 60k probably. And it would stay at that level for nearly ever. I loped a chunk of that tab off by buying a semi-roller and doing all the body, paint, assembly myself and having a BB FE motor built using original parts.
Last edited by jacobsed; 02-05-2016 at 10:54 AM.
02-05-2016, 10:51 AM
#22
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St. Jude Donor '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19-'20-'21-'22-'23-'24
I don't think Boomers are going to be letting go of their old cars for a couple of decades yet. I hope you get the value you're looking for, in the time frame that still permits optimal enjoyment. However, I've learned that waiting for something you really wanted for a couple of decades can be a very long wait indeed.
02-05-2016, 10:53 AM
#23
Pro
Having just turned 55 two months ago, I finally realized it's time for a mid-year and plan to buy one in twelve months time. I had a 69' previously and my father had 68' 427 when I was a kid and a 85' when he wanted to still experience his youth. I think the Superformance Cobra's are nice but they're still replicars, although very nice one's and if I go the Superformance route some day, it will be with the GT40 they manufacture. Each to their own and no one is right or wrong in their beliefs etc.....My dad always wanted a SWC, but at 83 years old, that isn't going to happen so don't wait because time doesn't stand still!
Trying to 'wait out' a market until it cools down is fools play, IMO. I'm turning 55 this month, got my license on my 16th birthday, my permit at 145 1/2, and have been driving my classic muscle cars since 1979....for the past 37 years. I bought my C1 this past April, having wanted a C2 for---oh---the past 45 years. Almost bought a '66 roadster in '81 for 6k, the going price, but waited.....until I almost bought a '67 BB roadster for 15k in about 1984, but it was a little too expensive, then again let a '65 roadster slide at 18k in the early '90's as it seemed a bit pricey. If you're waiting for the price of my car to go down, good luck. I figure I have 30 years of driving left to go, and the prices of these cars will at least beat inflation over time. What was coveted when new remains coveted. Kit cars, and flavor of the month hot rods....not so much.
Last edited by Ohiomark; 02-05-2016 at 10:56 AM.
02-05-2016, 11:00 AM
#24
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Yes, very nice factory built replicars. If you see a cobra on the street it is a replica. Real ones don't get driven on the street unless you're Lynn Park aka "Mr. Cobra." I think he drives all his.
Having just turned 55 two months ago, I finally realized it's time for a mid-year and plan to buy one in twelve months time. I had a 69' previously and my father had 68' 427 when I was a kid and a 85' when he wanted to still experience his youth. I think the Superformance Cobra's are nice but they're still replicars, although very nice one's and if I go the Superformance route some day, it will be with the GT40 they manufacture. Each to their own and no one is right or wrong in their beliefs etc.....My dad always wanted a SWC, but at 83 years old, that isn't going to happen so don't wait because time doesn't stand still!
02-05-2016, 11:00 AM
#25
With the recent passage of the new highway bill, companies can sell up to 325 vintage reproduction cars of a model that's at least 25 years old. Don't have to pass crash worthiness requirements or state pollution tests. The excitement from the "new" old models hitting the market might up the enthusiasm of the younger crowd and keep the wave going.
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amamdani (02-05-2016)
02-05-2016, 11:16 AM
#26
Instructor
bought mine about a year ago couldn't be happier paid what I thought was going price.
66 vert restored about 10 years ago .
I have two daughters 33 and 35 both are standing in line to get the car they love it and will drive the wheels of it when the time comes
until then I smile every time I drive it . im 65 and going strong for now .
66 vert restored about 10 years ago .
I have two daughters 33 and 35 both are standing in line to get the car they love it and will drive the wheels of it when the time comes
until then I smile every time I drive it . im 65 and going strong for now .
02-05-2016, 11:34 AM
#28
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My 24 yr. old son wants me to buy a C6 ZO6 and he just doesn't understand at his age that a car of my youth is what I desire. The Z06 (especially in red) are beautiful but it can wait or maybe he can buy one and I can swap him every once in a while? 
02-05-2016, 11:38 AM
#29
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I have plenty of funds and passion. I just don't think these mid years are actually worth what is being asked for them. You find a nice one and they are asking the moon, you find one that seems reasonably priced and it comes with a bag of **** that costs more than the car is worth to fix.
I gave it an honest search for 1.5 years and its just not going to work out. Just because I have the money doesn't mean I'm going to be stupid with it.
I turned 40 in Nov so I'll have plenty of time to scoop up a midyear later when they all come on the market from estate sales!! hahah
I gave it an honest search for 1.5 years and its just not going to work out. Just because I have the money doesn't mean I'm going to be stupid with it.
I turned 40 in Nov so I'll have plenty of time to scoop up a midyear later when they all come on the market from estate sales!! hahah
Last edited by jacobsed; 02-05-2016 at 11:40 AM.
02-05-2016, 11:44 AM
#30
Melting Slicks
jacobsed,
You don't come across as a person who appreciates advice, so consider this as information to consider as you see fit. Basic economics says the price of an item is determined by supply and demand. The demand for Cobra replicas is still strong enough to encourage those who make them to keep making new ones. That means the supply is continuing to grow. Just as with the oil market, when the supply of Cobra replicas outruns the demand, the price will drop and manufacturers will fail. The supply of midyear Corvettes is not growings, so the only factor that will influence price is demand for them.
Incidentally, I've been hanging out on the Cobra forums long enough to note that many used Cobra replicas are sold with less than 3,000 miles on them. It seems that many people find that the best part of owning one is getting it, not driving it. This seems particularly true for people who buy turnkey cars because they know nothing about how they work or how to keep them running.
You don't come across as a person who appreciates advice, so consider this as information to consider as you see fit. Basic economics says the price of an item is determined by supply and demand. The demand for Cobra replicas is still strong enough to encourage those who make them to keep making new ones. That means the supply is continuing to grow. Just as with the oil market, when the supply of Cobra replicas outruns the demand, the price will drop and manufacturers will fail. The supply of midyear Corvettes is not growings, so the only factor that will influence price is demand for them.
Incidentally, I've been hanging out on the Cobra forums long enough to note that many used Cobra replicas are sold with less than 3,000 miles on them. It seems that many people find that the best part of owning one is getting it, not driving it. This seems particularly true for people who buy turnkey cars because they know nothing about how they work or how to keep them running.
02-05-2016, 11:50 AM
#31
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Let me backup a little and say I do love a nice midyear and has always been a dream car for me. But so has a Cobra. I had never actually considered a real Cobra (no multi hundred thousand dollar funds for that!) or Cobra replica (who the hell wants a replica?) and knew nothing about Superformance. During my midyear shopping I came across a couple Superformance Cobras and could not believe how amazing they are. I worked out my pros and cons did a ton more research and decided on the Superformance Cobra.
02-05-2016, 12:01 PM
#32
Team Owner
jacobsed,
Incidentally, I've been hanging out on the Cobra forums long enough to note that many used Cobra replicas are sold with less than 3,000 miles on them. It seems that many people find that the best part of owning one is getting it, not driving it. This seems particularly true for people who buy turnkey cars because they know nothing about how they work or how to keep them running.
Incidentally, I've been hanging out on the Cobra forums long enough to note that many used Cobra replicas are sold with less than 3,000 miles on them. It seems that many people find that the best part of owning one is getting it, not driving it. This seems particularly true for people who buy turnkey cars because they know nothing about how they work or how to keep them running.
The local Cobra club came to a nearby airfield one day and there were 75 of them in various trim.
They have never interested me in the least... If they did I would buy a Backdraft or Factory Five I think...
02-05-2016, 12:01 PM
#33
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I never asked for advice in this thread. Yes, I am an educated person and learned all about guns and butter economics. I predict the midyear prices will fall when a bunch come onto the market from baby boomer estate sales and none of the younger people will want to pay big dollars for them. That's what I believe.
I've worked on cars all my life. 55, 57 and 60 vettes with my Dad. A 70 and 69 of my own. I still have my 69 (in the avatar). The cobra won't be sitting the garage!
I've worked on cars all my life. 55, 57 and 60 vettes with my Dad. A 70 and 69 of my own. I still have my 69 (in the avatar). The cobra won't be sitting the garage!
jacobsed,
You don't come across as a person who appreciates advice, so consider this as information to consider as you see fit. Basic economics says the price of an item is determined by supply and demand. The demand for Cobra replicas is still strong enough to encourage those who make them to keep making new ones. That means the supply is continuing to grow. Just as with the oil market, when the supply of Cobra replicas outruns the demand, the price will drop and manufacturers will fail. The supply of midyear Corvettes is not growings, so the only factor that will influence price is demand for them.
Incidentally, I've been hanging out on the Cobra forums long enough to note that many used Cobra replicas are sold with less than 3,000 miles on them. It seems that many people find that the best part of owning one is getting it, not driving it. This seems particularly true for people who buy turnkey cars because they know nothing about how they work or how to keep them running.
You don't come across as a person who appreciates advice, so consider this as information to consider as you see fit. Basic economics says the price of an item is determined by supply and demand. The demand for Cobra replicas is still strong enough to encourage those who make them to keep making new ones. That means the supply is continuing to grow. Just as with the oil market, when the supply of Cobra replicas outruns the demand, the price will drop and manufacturers will fail. The supply of midyear Corvettes is not growings, so the only factor that will influence price is demand for them.
Incidentally, I've been hanging out on the Cobra forums long enough to note that many used Cobra replicas are sold with less than 3,000 miles on them. It seems that many people find that the best part of owning one is getting it, not driving it. This seems particularly true for people who buy turnkey cars because they know nothing about how they work or how to keep them running.
02-05-2016, 12:06 PM
#34
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Yes, they are as practical as a motorcycle. There are some nice factory five and backdraft cars but the quality is hit an miss due to the "kit" nature of them. The Superformance cars are all factory built and show quality painted.
Honestly, I don't find my 69 vette to be practical at all either! hahah
Honestly, I don't find my 69 vette to be practical at all either! hahah
I think its more because they are impractical for the most part, hardly any creature comforts, fair weather cars, loud, and, scary fast for older folks and not all that rare (replicas of course). Not all that long ago some of those replicas were downright poorly engineered and dangerous.
The local Cobra club came to a nearby airfield one day and there were 75 of them in various trim.
They have never interested me in the least... If they did I would buy a Backdraft or Factory Five I think...
The local Cobra club came to a nearby airfield one day and there were 75 of them in various trim.
They have never interested me in the least... If they did I would buy a Backdraft or Factory Five I think...
02-05-2016, 12:07 PM
#35
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Regading the cost/value thing, yeah I get it. I've had all sorts of cars including midyears, but when I sold my last SWC in 2006 I always knew Id buy another after I tried some other models. By the time I decided to get another, the bizarre spike on the cars had begun and I found myself "waiting" for the perfect "car vs value." The fact was, the market had changed so dramatically I had to come to grips that cars routinely cost $10-$15k more than I believed they were worth. I finally had to decide to buy what I wanted and accept the cost... or not. Waiting wasn't cutting it.
So, if the prices are just too high for your comfort, stick with the replica and the '69. Constant reference to the Obits might not be the most popular concept around here, though.
02-05-2016, 12:09 PM
#36
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I found far more mid year vettes for sale than I did Superformance Cobras over the last year or so.
I think its more because they are impractical for the most part, hardly any creature comforts, fair weather cars, loud, and, scary fast for older folks and not all that rare (replicas of course). Not all that long ago some of those replicas were downright poorly engineered and dangerous.
The local Cobra club came to a nearby airfield one day and there were 75 of them in various trim.
They have never interested me in the least... If they did I would buy a Backdraft or Factory Five I think...
The local Cobra club came to a nearby airfield one day and there were 75 of them in various trim.
They have never interested me in the least... If they did I would buy a Backdraft or Factory Five I think...
02-05-2016, 12:14 PM
#38
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Let me backup a little and say I do love a nice midyear and has always been a dream car for me. But so has a Cobra. I had never actually considered a real Cobra (no multi hundred thousand dollar funds for that!) or Cobra replica (who the hell wants a replica?) and knew nothing about Superformance. During my midyear shopping I came across a couple Superformance Cobras and could not believe how amazing they are. I worked out my pros and cons did a ton more research and decided on the Superformance Cobra.
It reads like you were looking for a restored, or easily restored, Sting Ray. If you had been successful you likely would have quickly tired of the demands of driving and maintaining a properly restored car in restoration condition. Driving a restored Sting Ray and using it like intended, with 6500 rpm shift points and cornering near the car's limits, is hard on the car and pocketbook.
The fear factor of discounting a $100,000 restoration down to a $40,000 driver through use is too much for many mid-year owners, so the cars sit and rot in garages. Most high quality restorations are stored as art pieces, seldom driven and then sold as the estate is liquidated. The car is then subject to another restoration, to match the revised Judging guide, before certification and another high dollar sale (where the process repeats again).
At this stage the Cobra is a better platform for fun and abuse.
If you want the Sting Ray look, buy a driver. You will not lose money, and you can always trade up when that deal for a restoration quality car sneaks up on you.
02-05-2016, 12:16 PM
#39
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I guess for me it just comes down to enjoyment. Everything in the world can't be about investment return. Certainly can't ignore it to some degree...but it just depends on what you like.
If you want a matching numbers car that is one price...if you truly want an all original car that's not put together from a bunch of matching numbers parts...that's another price. If you like hot rod stuff like I do...that's easier...but sadly my drivetrain is worth more than the car. Would make more money parting it out and selling it as a roller probably.
Midyears have gone up over the years for sure and they are still popular enough to command good $$$. Not sure that will drop a lot any time soon...but probably not escalate either. 20 Years ago I was told that if you could look at POS and tell it was a mid year Vette one time in it's life..it was worth $15K. If it could actually be rolled outside and cranked up some sort of way..it was $20K. If you could drive it to the store and no one laughed at you it was $25K. If it was any sort of nice small block car it was $30-$35K. From there you added for all original, matching numbers, restored nicely etc.
Then you started with Big Blocks...bottom rung was $35-40K for something that you could drive around and went up from there. I found that was pretty darn accurate and the prices today haven't dramatically gone up...maybe 10-20% or so.
I didn't really need a matching numbers car...but would have paid for it if I had found what I wanted. I found most were restamped and put together cars and the owners often didn't have a clue they had been duped by the last owner. I wasn't a jerk and tell them unless they asked what my concerns were. I ended up buying my current car for a great price knowing it wasn't matching number anything..but it had no rust, paint was decent and is still in place 20 years later. Perfect for me.
I like kit Cobras....someday might get one...I think the performance available is amazing if built correctly.
Life is short...this ain't no dress rehearsal...find what you want to enjoy and do it!
JIM
If you want a matching numbers car that is one price...if you truly want an all original car that's not put together from a bunch of matching numbers parts...that's another price. If you like hot rod stuff like I do...that's easier...but sadly my drivetrain is worth more than the car. Would make more money parting it out and selling it as a roller probably.
Midyears have gone up over the years for sure and they are still popular enough to command good $$$. Not sure that will drop a lot any time soon...but probably not escalate either. 20 Years ago I was told that if you could look at POS and tell it was a mid year Vette one time in it's life..it was worth $15K. If it could actually be rolled outside and cranked up some sort of way..it was $20K. If you could drive it to the store and no one laughed at you it was $25K. If it was any sort of nice small block car it was $30-$35K. From there you added for all original, matching numbers, restored nicely etc.
Then you started with Big Blocks...bottom rung was $35-40K for something that you could drive around and went up from there. I found that was pretty darn accurate and the prices today haven't dramatically gone up...maybe 10-20% or so.
I didn't really need a matching numbers car...but would have paid for it if I had found what I wanted. I found most were restamped and put together cars and the owners often didn't have a clue they had been duped by the last owner. I wasn't a jerk and tell them unless they asked what my concerns were. I ended up buying my current car for a great price knowing it wasn't matching number anything..but it had no rust, paint was decent and is still in place 20 years later. Perfect for me.
I like kit Cobras....someday might get one...I think the performance available is amazing if built correctly.
Life is short...this ain't no dress rehearsal...find what you want to enjoy and do it!
JIM
02-05-2016, 12:17 PM
#40
Melting Slicks
I have plenty of funds and passion. I just don't think these mid years are actually worth what is being asked for them. You find a nice one and they are asking the moon, you find one that seems reasonably priced and it comes with a bag of **** that costs more than the car is worth to fix.
I gave it an honest search for 1.5 years and its just not going to work out. Just because I have the money doesn't mean I'm going to be stupid with it.
I turned 40 in Nov so I'll have plenty of time to scoop up a midyear later when they all come on the market from estate sales!! hahah
I gave it an honest search for 1.5 years and its just not going to work out. Just because I have the money doesn't mean I'm going to be stupid with it.
I turned 40 in Nov so I'll have plenty of time to scoop up a midyear later when they all come on the market from estate sales!! hahah
