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RestoMod Build Order Lessons Learned

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Old 02-11-2015, 07:39 PM
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jkinton
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Default RestoMod Build Order Lessons Learned

So in December, I got on the waiting list with SRIII for a C7 suspension based chassis for my '65 convertible.

I'll need to cut the rear floor to accomodate the SRIII chassis. I also plan to put fender flares on the rear. And I plan to put in C7 seats (assuming I can find them - a source has eluded me so far), so I'll need to make the floor mods to accomodate those. I'm still waffling on a TKO600 or Tremec T56 for the tranny and its associated tunnel enlargement. Then there are the interior mods to add power windows and door locks, and the dash mods for a stereo/navigation system.

Mike says they are about 2 months away from starting to build the chassis. And all of a sudden, two months seems like a REALLY short time away.

So what have folks found to work best in terms of the order for doing the paint/body/interior mods?

I want to hold off on painting as long as possible. That way, any body mods that need to be made to fit on the new chassis can be completed before final paint.

But should I do some of these mods on the current chassis to work out issues, then fine tune them on the new chassis? Or should I strip it down, and do everything after I've fit it on the new chassis.

If the former, which should be done now versus later?

I'm interested in your thoughts and experiences.

Thanks!

John
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Old 02-11-2015, 08:20 PM
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rick piras
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John,
I can't speak to the C7 suspension set-up. I'm almost done doing the conversion onto an SR III chassis with the C5 front/C4 rear setup. My build is documented here:
http://livesofrickandlisa.9f.com/photo_6.html
Having the body stripped down and ready to cut the floor pan can be done ahead of the arrival of the new chassis, but probably not the "final cut". Especially with the C7 suspension since there's not a lot of guys who've done those yet to tap into their experience.
I'm doing my car in phases, since I lacked the experience, and room to do the whole thing in one fell swoop.
If I were to do another restomod I'd do all of the mechanical conversion (including drive train) in one phase and then do the bodywork afterwards. But there are guys on this forum that have done more than one car and they seem to do the body work at the same time. There is a very steep learning curve with these cars.
It was a LOT less stressful for me to be lifting or lowering a body onto the chassis without worrying about a new paint job.
I got all of the drivetrain (LS6 with a TKO-600 in my case) conversion into the stock chassis done first, then started the chassis swap. That route end up being more expensive, but allowed me to sort through the myriad of issues one step at a time.
There's some really talented guys on this forum (not me) that can help, and working with Mike Stockdale is a joy. He's incredibly supportive, patient, and helpful even when you call him 5 times a week with dumb questions.
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Old 02-11-2015, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by rick piras
John,
I can't speak to the C7 suspension set-up. I'm almost done doing the conversion onto an SR III chassis with the C5 front/C4 rear setup. My build is documented here:
http://livesofrickandlisa.9f.com/photo_6.html
Having the body stripped down and ready to cut the floor pan can be done ahead of the arrival of the new chassis, but probably not the "final cut". Especially with the C7 suspension since there's not a lot of guys who've done those yet to tap into their experience.
I'm doing my car in phases, since I lacked the experience, and room to do the whole thing in one fell swoop.
If I were to do another restomod I'd do all of the mechanical conversion (including drive train) in one phase and then do the bodywork afterwards. But there are guys on this forum that have done more than one car and they seem to do the body work at the same time. There is a very steep learning curve with these cars.
It was a LOT less stressful for me to be lifting or lowering a body onto the chassis without worrying about a new paint job.
I got all of the drivetrain (LS6 with a TKO-600 in my case) conversion into the stock chassis done first, then started the chassis swap. That route end up being more expensive, but allowed me to sort through the myriad of issues one step at a time.
There's some really talented guys on this forum (not me) that can help, and working with Mike Stockdale is a joy. He's incredibly supportive, patient, and helpful even when you call him 5 times a week with dumb questions.
Mike does have a ton of patience and is very helpful!
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Old 02-12-2015, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by firstgear
Mike does have a ton of patience and is very helpful!
I will second or third that. Mike is great to work with and seems to take an interest in his customer's project(s).
I went with C7 suspension and will be using a C7 engine. Mike took the time to consider the details.
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Old 02-12-2015, 05:02 PM
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John McGraw
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I never do any of the body mods until it is sitting on the completed chassis with all the suspension.

Too many things that can change to start modifying body panels, only to find they do not fit in the future. Of course, I have always made my own replacement panels for the floor, and Mikes pre-made panels might work just fine.

I would rather cut the floor to fit the chassis, and then fabricate the new floor to clear everything.

As to the quarters, use Mike's guidance as to which quarters to use to clear the tires, but do not buy the wheels until you have the quarters installed on the body and the body sitting on the chassis. Then and only then, measure for the wheels. There is absolutely no substitute for a marks on the floor from a plumb bob hung from the insides of the quarters and from the axle flanges, to determine what backspacing to order on the wheels. If you are putting large tires on the car, it is almost a forgone conclusion that you are going to buying custom wheels, as you will not find anything in off-the-shelf wheels that will work. Also, keep in mind, that the point you measure to for clearance on C2 quarters, is not the lips of the quarter! The tires will actually hit about 2" up in the quarter, where it turns to the inside of the car. If you make the tires barely clear the lips, the tires will rub the inside of the quarters under compression.

I would not consider painting or powdercoating the chassis until all fabrication was done. Nothing will **** you off more than finding you need to weld a tab to the chassis for something, after you have already put a finish on the chassis. I have done that more than once, and have cussed myself for it! When I say all fabrication, I mean ALL fabrication, including exhaust, suspension, brake lines, bumpers, battery tray, transmission mounting, ect, ect, ect!

You have to basically build the entire car, and then blow it back apart for finishes. This WILL come back to haunt you if you do not.

While we are on the subject of fabrication, Mike's chassis has a fixed transmission mount location, so make sure that you have made up your mind on the trans before he starts fabrication. I bought a chassis a couple of years ago, built for a LSA engine and 4L85E trans. Decided to change to a LS3 engine, and a 4L75E trans after the chassis arrived. The two transmissions are different lengths, and I had to remove the crossmember and fabricate a new one at the correct location. It does not sound like a big deal, until you see how his crossmember is welded to all 3 tubes of the side rails on both sides. It must have taken me 5 hours to remove and grind away all traces of the original crossmember, and another 2-3 hours to fabricate and weld in a new one.

That is the one thing I would like to see on his chassis, is an adjustable trans member crossmember location. I know his welded attachment is hell for strong, but it is pain to relocate if you change your mind!

Here is a pic of the one I had to re-do, and it came out looking good, but it was a lot of work.



Here is a pic, giving you some idea about how much cutting has to be done on the floor.




Regards, John McGraw

Last edited by John McGraw; 02-12-2015 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 02-12-2015, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by John McGraw
I never do any of the body mods until it is sitting on the completed chassis with all the suspension.

---

While we are on the subject of fabrication, Mike's chassis has a fixed transmission mount location, so make sure that you have made up your mind on the trans before he starts fabrication.
Thanks John! That's very helpful.

On the transmission crossmember issue, if I set it up for a T-56, but ultimately decide on the shorter TKO, could I add a mount to the front of the crossmember? Or will that cause problems with drive shaft clearance?
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Old 02-12-2015, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 65 fi
I will second or third that. Mike is great to work with and seems to take an interest in his customer's project(s).
I went with C7 suspension and will be using a C7 engine. Mike took the time to consider the details.

Thanks Rick, firstgear and 65 fi. Mike's helpfulness during my pre-order questioning was a major reason why I went with SRIII.

65 FI, have you encountered any unusual issues with the C7 suspension in your project?
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Old 02-12-2015, 06:38 PM
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As John said, once you decide on a transmission, you are stuck with that model. I have no problem with the tko500-600 units once broken in, but the t-56 units are much smoother out of the box. In my experience the TKO units are always so damn hard to get into reverse and a bit difficult to downshift into 2nd and 1st until they reach about 1000-1500 miles.
I also second waiting to cut and install the floor until you have the chassis. If you have a convertible, this is particularly important. I would do the rear floor before you cut the front for the seats...dont do both at the same time as you might weaken the structure too much.

MIkes floor sections and wheel wells make things a lot easier. However, i had to dish out his convertible wheel wells more for top clearance as they were not deep enough.
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Old 02-12-2015, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 65silververt
As John said, once you decide on a transmission, you are stuck with that model. I have no problem with the tko500-600 units once broken in, but the t-56 units are much smoother out of the box. In my experience the TKO units are always so damn hard to get into reverse and a bit difficult to downshift into 2nd and 1st until they reach about 1000-1500 miles.
I also second waiting to cut and install the floor until you have the chassis. If you have a convertible, this is particularly important. I would do the rear floor before you cut the front for the seats...dont do both at the same time as you might weaken the structure too much.

MIkes floor sections and wheel wells make things a lot easier. However, i had to dish out his convertible wheel wells more for top clearance as they were not deep enough.
Thanks for the insight on the transmission! I really want the T-56, but I have never liked the look of the centered shifter in any of the C2 restomods that I've seen. Personal preference, I know.

Not to hijack my own thread, but has anyone been able to successfully use a shifter offset to make a T-56 installation look more stock?
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Old 02-12-2015, 07:24 PM
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Originally posted by jkinton
Not to hijack my own thread, but has anyone been able to successfully use a shifter offset to make a T-56 installation look more stock?
Here 'ya go . . . one of these may be your best bet:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/QWIK-STIK-OFFSET-SHIFTER-CHEVY-T5-VIPER-T56-03-04-COBRA-w-POSITIVE-STOPS-/120967108066?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c2a3395e2&vxp=mtr
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Old 02-12-2015, 07:48 PM
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Listen to John Mac.

Do not start andy body work until you have your new Chassis and body shimed to location. Your old frame Vs your new frame may require different shimming than that of orginal frame to get body to sit correctly. Mike's frame is close tolerance compaired to a stock one.

Car I'm building now had been wrecked in front and frame had been bent down on left side, and not fixed. When front end was repaired, shop that did the work just pulled body down using same # of spacers as orignal. Left front side was 1/2" lower than right and body had taken shape over the years so we had to get it back up 1/2" to level front end before starting body work.

Because I build my cars to fit wheels and tires to be used, I myself would not do/have any bodywork associated with wheels and tires done without having the rims and tires I was going to use in hand before starting body work either.

Last edited by Poorhousenext; 02-12-2015 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 02-12-2015, 08:43 PM
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I also agree with John on all of his points. I am running the SRiii C6 based chassis and thought I had all of my fab work thought through on the chassis prior to powder coating. I planned it to the extent that I had even thought through the mount locations for the ground lines. However with all of my planning, I still ended up making three additions - ABS unit mount, modification for side exhaust, and a removable brace for the battery mount due to it hanging up when removing the body.

However, having said this, interestingly we were able to complete all of the exterior body modifications prior to receiving the chassis. I am running GTS quarters in the rear which allow for 345 rear tires and 285 fronts without any issues using stock grand sport wheel offsets - this could be different for the C7 hub width, but Mike could tell you the difference. For the transmission, I raised the tunnel 3/4 inch in the front for a T56 and increased the diameter of the tunnel in the rear for a larger drive shaft as well. The rear interior section was raised using Mike's wheel wells, coupled with filling the remainder of the cut out section with flat fiberglass panels. I had previously built mounts for the seats, thus they were already test fit.

I recently installed the engine (LS3) and transmission (Camaro based T56) and did the body drop. Everything thing fits perfectly. Probably based upon luck, but I chalk the luck up to the precision upon which Mike built the chassis and panels to fit the car coupled with how pristine my body was - only one minor hit in the rear quarter. You can see the pictures of the various body mods under a variety of posts I have made (65LS6C4) - sorry I have not yet created a single build thread. Regards, Dirk
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by 65LS6C4
I also agree with John on all of his points. I am running the SRiii C6 based chassis and thought I had all of my fab work thought through on the chassis prior to powder coating. I planned it to the extent that I had even thought through the mount locations for the ground lines. However with all of my planning, I still ended up making three additions - ABS unit mount, modification for side exhaust, and a removable brace for the battery mount due to it hanging up when removing the body.

However, having said this, interestingly we were able to complete all of the exterior body modifications prior to receiving the chassis. I am running GTS quarters in the rear which allow for 345 rear tires and 285 fronts without any issues using stock grand sport wheel offsets - this could be different for the C7 hub width, but Mike could tell you the difference. For the transmission, I raised the tunnel 3/4 inch in the front for a T56 and increased the diameter of the tunnel in the rear for a larger drive shaft as well. The rear interior section was raised using Mike's wheel wells, coupled with filling the remainder of the cut out section with flat fiberglass panels. I had previously built mounts for the seats, thus they were already test fit.

I recently installed the engine (LS3) and transmission (Camaro based T56) and did the body drop. Everything thing fits perfectly. Probably based upon luck, but I chalk the luck up to the precision upon which Mike built the chassis and panels to fit the car coupled with how pristine my body was - only one minor hit in the rear quarter. You can see the pictures of the various body mods under a variety of posts I have made (65LS6C4) - sorry I have not yet created a single build thread. Regards, Dirk
Thanks Dirk!

If I find the seats, I may do those first, but I'm going to hold off on everything else until after the chassis is done.

And here I go hijacking my own thread again -- Do you have any photos of the ABS setup you used?
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:24 PM
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I was in your position two years ago and relied heavily on the advice of the forum for my first build, so you are in the good hands.
A few suggestions:
Be sure to finalize via email or something traceable what you want Mike to build before he starts. Mike and I discuss verbally having my chassis setup for both undercar and side exhaust. It wan't until mocking things up months later and just before I was about to pull the body off and powdercoat the chassis that I discovered it was built for undercar only, so I had to modify accordingly.
As stated by others, fit everything together, then disassemble and paint. Think about how you're going to run your wiring, hoses, etc. Fit the bumpers you're using on the car along with brackets after the body is shimmed how you want it.
Consider an LGT700 trans. Nice short shifts, and small form factor so no tunnel mods.
I see some C7 seats for sale on ebay.
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Sungela
I was in your position two years ago and relied heavily on the advice of the forum for my first build, so you are in the good hands.
A few suggestions:
Be sure to finalize via email or something traceable what you want Mike to build before he starts. Mike and I discuss verbally having my chassis setup for both undercar and side exhaust. It wan't until mocking things up months later and just before I was about to pull the body off and powdercoat the chassis that I discovered it was built for undercar only, so I had to modify accordingly.
As stated by others, fit everything together, then disassemble and paint. Think about how you're going to run your wiring, hoses, etc. Fit the bumpers you're using on the car along with brackets after the body is shimmed how you want it.
Consider an LGT700 trans. Nice short shifts, and small form factor so no tunnel mods.
I see some C7 seats for sale on ebay.
Thanks Ken!
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Old 02-12-2015, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by jkinton
Thanks Dirk!

If I find the seats, I may do those first, but I'm going to hold off on everything else until after the chassis is done.

And here I go hijacking my own thread again -- Do you have any photos of the ABS setup you used?
Sure,

It is the same setup most of the other guys are running, from ABSBrakes. Here is the master:




And here is the pump unit:



I will post some additional when I have a chance. Currently photo bucket is very slow.
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Old 02-12-2015, 10:16 PM
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Mike will gladly add the bracket for the ABS pump for you. HOwever, note that i had a bad master cylinder and leaking pump from ABS. OTHERS have had the same issue. Love the system, but damn it was a pain to change those systems out on my own dime once the car was complete. ABS did refund the money, but for the price, those components should have been solid out of the box.
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:11 AM
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65 fi
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Originally Posted by jkinton
Thanks Rick, firstgear and 65 fi. Mike's helpfulness during my pre-order questioning was a major reason why I went with SRIII.

65 FI, have you encountered any unusual issues with the C7 suspension in your project?
I am not doing the work but as far as I know there are not any major issues.
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:27 AM
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I posted a few photos on my Photo Gallery.
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Old 02-13-2015, 02:25 AM
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I saw a C1 restomod with a hydroboost power brake unit. It requires fluid from a power steering pump, and eliminates the need for a vacuum pump in engines with spirited camshafts that deliver low vacuum.
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