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I'm starting the research process for a motor build for my 64 coupe and a mock Grand Sport motor with cross ram intake and side draft webers is looking very attractive. Jim Inglese makes a system that looks great, but is quite pricey.
Another option is to go with the 406 small block from Skip White. I have a coworker that installed it and is very happy with it.
I'd like to open up the floor to see what the opinion of the forum is.
I've run a home-grown Weber cross ram set up on my Grand Sport for well over a decade.
What do you need to know?
BTW, I've got extra manifolds and carburetors available if you would have an interest in "rolling your own". (It's not tough. If I can figure it out, anyone can.)
BTW, I've got extra manifolds and carburetors available if you would have an interest in "rolling your own". (It's not tough. If I can figure it out, anyone can.)
Jim
I certainly have an interest. Feel free to PM me with more info if you like.
Third, will these have an adverse effect on cooling? Weird question but keeping my vette cool is a problem I don't want to have to deal with ever again. Been too much of an issue with the current motor.
I'v had the crossram on my 66 for 6 or 7 years now. It was a real pain to tune at first but in the end runs very good. The big problem with tuning is not having all the parts you need. Just jet changes ( and you will do alot of them) gets expensive fast. You have to order 8 of them at a time and not know for sure they work. you can't buy a jet kit like a Holley. I started drilling out the smaller ones when I need to go bigger. Then there is the chokes, emulsion tubes and so on. All I can say is be ready to spend some money and take some time to get right.
Jim lives about 1/2 hour from me. I drove the car to him a few years ago. I wanted to see if he could fine tune it any better than I had it. We went for a ride and he told me they where as good as they where going to get with the cam I have. You can not run a big cam due to the fact you need real good vacume to pull the fuel down those long runners.
All in all they have been trouble free since day one. I drive this car alot. It makes very good low end tourqe but runs out of steam around 5500 RPM's. I have a 327 with m20 and 336 rear. Low end is great with such a tall gear.
A 406 is alot of cubes for that set up so do some real good reseach before you jump in. Cooling should not be a problem. I run a stock cooling system and the car never go's over 180. I'm not sure it will fit under a stock hood. If it dose it will be close. I have a Grand Sport hood on my 66.
First off, I need to know if it will fit under a stock (no scoop) hood. I've been told it will but want to confirm that before moving forward.
Second, how does it effect the torque? I had a Lotus before and had to rev the crap out of it to get moving and don't want to repeat that.
Brian's response about hood clearance is good..... think about it this way.... there had to have been a reason they put the big hood bulges on the Grand Sports when the engines were topped with Webers.
The long runners give a meaningful boost to torque around 3500 - 4000 RPM. Below that RPM range, the runners don't help but neither do they hinder performance. If you have trouble pulling away from a stop, look at other parameters besides the Webers.
And, yep, with the 45mm DCOE carburetors, it's pretty much all over by 5500 RPM.
I proved that to my satisfaction at Laguna Seca one day. I tried shifting at 5000, 5500, 6000, and 6500 RPM, comparing lap times for each shift point. Best lap times were at 5500 shift.
Brian's response about hood clearance is good..... think about it this way.... there had to have been a reason they put the big hood bulges on the Grand Sports when the engines were topped with Webers.
The long runners give a meaningful boost to torque around 3500 - 4000 RPM. Below that RPM range, the runners don't help but neither do they hinder performance. If you have trouble pulling away from a stop, look at other parameters besides the Webers.
And, yep, with the 45mm DCOE carburetors, it's pretty much all over by 5500 RPM.
I proved that to my satisfaction at Laguna Seca one day. I tried shifting at 5000, 5500, 6000, and 6500 RPM, comparing lap times for each shift point. Best lap times were at 5500 shift.
For comparrison, this is a REAL GS, once driven by Delmo Johnson/Dave Morgan. The hood is far form sotck.
I took these pictures 4-5 years ago at a Diabetes fund raising benefit in Tulsa.
That's Dave Morgan himself in the center.
John Neas left, Tulsa mayor right.
It's my understanding that the main purpose of the hood modifications was to reduce the significant front end lift that midyears are prone to having. I wouldn't be surprised if the motor had an impact also.
It's my understanding that the main purpose of the hood modifications was to reduce the significant front end lift that midyears are prone to having. I wouldn't be surprised if the motor had an impact also.
Not at all true.
The Nassau hood, in fact, contributed significantly to front end lift. By itself, it was a "wing" with a lot of lift. I have a Nassau hood on my Grand Sport. The rear edge is loosely tied down with leather straps. At ~100 MPH air speed, it will rise and pull hard against the straps. The Nassau hood was used for exactly one race because the lift problem was so severe.
At the very next race, the Sebring hood was introduced. With all the extra vents, it didn't try to tear itself off the car. A small victory.
However, the rest of the body lines still tried to levitate the Grand Sports.
The real purpose of the bulging hoods was to clear the Webers.
The Nassau hood, in fact, contributed significantly to front end lift. By itself, it was a "wing" with a lot of lift. I have a Nassau hood on my Grand Sport. The rear edge is loosely tied down with leather straps. At ~100 MPH air speed, it will rise and pull hard against the straps. The Nassau hood was used for exactly one race because the lift problem was so severe.
At the very next race, the Sebring hood was introduced. With all the extra vents, it didn't try to tear itself off the car. A small victory.
However, the rest of the body lines still tried to levitate the Grand Sports.
The real purpose of the bulging hoods was to clear the Webers.
Brian's response about hood clearance is good..... think about it this way.... there had to have been a reason they put the big hood bulges on the Grand Sports when the engines were topped with Webers.
The long runners give a meaningful boost to torque around 3500 - 4000 RPM. Below that RPM range, the runners don't help but neither do they hinder performance. If you have trouble pulling away from a stop, look at other parameters besides the Webers.
And, yep, with the 45mm DCOE carburetors, it's pretty much all over by 5500 RPM.
I proved that to my satisfaction at Laguna Seca one day. I tried shifting at 5000, 5500, 6000, and 6500 RPM, comparing lap times for each shift point. Best lap times were at 5500 shift.
Jim
Jim I wonder what the 58mm flow compared to the 45's most of us use ? By the way I will probably be headed down to the Simone museum next weekend where the 002 car is located. They have an extra display engine with 58mm cross ram on it. Want any pictures of any particular areas of the motor ? ------------- Ken
07-29-2014, 03:50 PM
Cross Ram
