Dick Whittington

In a display of idiocy, never before displayed by this group, the Board of Directors voted to present the Historic Documents Manager and former National Judging Chairman Roy Sinor with a set of personal demands that were very unreasonable and forced his resignation.

The move was led by **** ********* and supported by **** *****, **** *****, and ******* ********. This lunacy started when I served on the BOD. **, with the support of two then-Directors, went to Sinor demanding his resignation as National Judging Chair. After that fiasco, which failed, ** again tried unsuccessfully to fire Sinor again in Kissimmee this year. It appears that it has turned into a personal vendetta by **.

Roy Sinor is the most ethical individual that I have had the pleasure to meet and he bleeds NCRS blood. This absurdity has got to come to an end.

NAMES WERE REMOVED DUE TO THREAT OF LEGAL ACTION. GUESS THE TRUTH HURTS

Frankie the Fink

vettsplit 63

What were the demands?

Procrastination Racing

Not surprising at all.

My only dealings with Gary Chestnut was about 8 years ago when he was threatening to sue me over an NCRS logo that was a link pointing to the NCRS site to direct people to NCRS to join or get more information, something completely allowed under trademark law.

He refused to even discuss how several articles from my web site had been published on the NCRS web site and in the National Restorer without my permission and without any credit given to me.


So it was ok for NCRS to steal, since they are the big authoritative Corvette organization but it was a national crime for me to use their logo to direct people to them.




As to Vito Cimilluca, I believe he was the person who took my trailering article and published it as his in the National Restorer around 1996, but figured it was his as he had added some material to it. The items he added were wrong, and he had managed to copy the editing mistakes I had in mine which I later corrected. It was obvious where he got the material, sort of like how mapmakers would put intentional errors on a map so they could detect when another map company had simply copied theirs rather than really do the work, as they copied errors and all.

He and NCRS both denied any wrong doing.


Would I expect there to be issues involving these people.

Naaaahhhhh!

BlackbirdZ07

This should be moved to the Politics Religion and Controversy forum!

TCracingCA

NCRS stick up the "#@!* mentality group! And you mean to tell me that they have internal politic issues also!

Some members here are of that cut, so you mean to tell me that a bunch of numbers matching, how the paint drips and overspray was handled crowd is having some in fighting!

Basically I do believe Roy Sinor was one of the good guys and wasn't he the historian trying to help members and such with the shipping information authentication! Oh Boy, God help guys who pay their $40 something dollars now! Actually I am sorry to hear this.

Hey Roy, just start up a new group!!!! And call it CNRS! Corvette National Restoration Society and yes you can steal that one from me, I would be proud if you do! Honestly!!!! I would!

Revfan

How about International Corvette Enthusiast Society ) ICES

It could include paint drip and numbers folks, "better than" factory restorers, and any body else that loved Vettes in all shapes and sizes and colors as well....

I am an NCRS member, but it needs to be a bigger tent in order to survive past the 60-70 year olds that make up the majority of the membership now.
(no offense meant)

TCracingCA

Yes the word, Restorers Society "Restorers" has always bothered me! Nothing wrong with alot of our non original cars, and they don't need no stinkin restoration!

I think you're on to something!

Easy Rhino

While I really respect the organization for carrying the state of the art into the present, and for all of the volunteer efforts put forth by this bunch, I am concerned about the state of the art going forward, and not because of the average age of the NCRS guys, but because of the personality types that may infest an otherwise sound organization. Unfortunately, organizations made up of people can get off-center, and NCRS would do well to preserve the organization as well as cars.

I do hope that it gets sorted out, for the sake of the art.

Revfan

I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water... as there IS a place for "as factory delivered" restorations AND the knowledge of what these cars were about circa date of delivery.

Ironically, the mission of the NCRS (taken from their websites mission statement) says

"Formed in 1974, the National Corvette Restorers Society is a non-profit hobby group of 15,800+ families dedicated to the restoration, preservation, history and enjoyment of Corvettes made from the model years 1953 through 1996"

The NCRS (and remember, I am a member) would be quick to point out that they have the Sportsman Award for non-stock(ish) cars

NCRS SPORTSMAN Award®Back to Top
The Sportsman Award, presented by a Chapter officer at a local chapter function, has two purposes:

Encourage member participation in NCRS events.
Demonstrate NCRS's commitment to recognize the member who actively attends and drives a Corvette to Chapter, Regional and National meets.

NCRS Sportsman Award Requirements
Within the award year or three preceding calendar years, a member must achieve:

Be a member of any NCRS Chapter. Membership must be carried during all points accumulation. (Chapter, at their discretion may wave NCRS membership for first time participant at a Chapter meet).
Member must own and drive a 1953 through current production Corvette and park in the designated ”Sportsman“ parking area...or... Member must own and drive a ”Stock appearing“ 1953-1982 Corvette and be willing to leave their car on the judging field with the judged cars during the event as space permits. ”Stock appearing“ is defined as no body, bumper or driving light modifications.
Must pay event registration fee. Must register and pay for Sportsman participation at the event. Must remain at the event until all NCRS Flight Judging is complete.
FOR MORE... GO HERE

So, it seems that if you don't have a top-flightable car, it would look nice as a background for our events, so bring it along to be scenery for us....

PERSONALLY
I agree with our (THE NCRS') Mission statement...
dedicated to the restoration, preservation, history and enjoyment of Corvettes made from the model years...
I just interpret the words/phrases differently, and I don't put (or think there should be) MORE emphasis on any particular word or phrase from the Mission Statement.

So bring you 64 with big block hood and 3 foot wide flares (though I personally don't like the stuff)... cause I'd rather have one more Corvette brother INSIDE the tent, than discontented outside. Every person can bring something unique and valuable to the table (and I don't mean cars here). Also, bring on the C7s and any other "C" as long as it ends with "orvette"!

ICES.... hmmmmm.....

Easy Rhino

^this^

Velox

Would greatly appreciate clarification on this... Also now see at NCRS.org that the Document Validation Service "is no longer available"

Frankie the Fink

I certainly respect the NCRS's organizational goals and standards its trying to maintain for the hobby. But the back-biting politics are Sooo.... typical of what happens in these hobbyist organizations after time goes on an folks' positions on issues get entrenched and dichotomy develops. I was fairly deep into the Mustang Club of America several decades back and saw the same thing occur.

Which is why, at this stage of my life, I am not a 'joiner' of any of the car clubs.
I retired and opted out of the rat race and office politics and I'm certainly not 'jonesing' to join another...

I do agree though - this post should be moved elsewhere...

kenba

I think we need a NEW BOD. This is crazy. I have been a member for 30 years & am about to tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine.

Mike Terry

Why is this on the Corvette Forum, Why isn't it on the NCRS Forum site. I think what the NCRS is trying to do is somewhat cool in trying to decide if Corvettes are original or not. The only thing is most the people who are trying to decide this do not have a clue what the hell they are doing and I am sure that it is playing head games with the BOD as well as there club members. The thing is most (NOT ALL) of the cars they certify to be original have a TON of aftermarket parts on them, so how can they be original??
Take the NCRS gripe to the NCRS web site. So here is a quarter so call someone who cares. guess you can tell I am not a large NCRS fan.

Don Rickles

Thank you Mr. Whittington for confirming my suspicions!

Mike, The NCRS Mods. wouldn't allow this discussion on the TDB.

Lets hope it remains civil here, as I would like to learn more!

WB

TC233

Everyone should be well aware of my position. NCRS has been an ole boys club of elitists for years. You are paying membership fees to keep a few people in position to do as they wish. My favorite pet peave is the L88 Crowd. Don't have an L88 engine cuz you busted it? No problem just get a new block "re-stamp it" with your vin and you are back to a 1/4million dollar car.

Second complaint- don't wanna pay for NOS or original parts because prices too high? No problem give authorization to stamp the Chinese stuff with dates so it "looks like an American Classic" that can be sold for more money.

Took me all of about 2 months to figure out that restamping, Chinese-ing, and old boys club is the theme and the mission statement.

I have spent more then half the price I have paid for my car in pursuit of NOS parts or used originals. Its a total waste of money because clones are taking over the world with NCRSs rubber stamp on it.

National Chinese Restoration Society, will not ever get a cent from me again.

Frankie the Fink

I think we all know that ain't gonna happen

DZAUTO

I am, hand have been, an NCRS member for over 30yrs. I feel the fundamental mission of NCRS is good. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, over the years I've seen them make numerous decisions and go in directions that just DO NOT MAKE SENSE.
Two main reasons for my continued membership is that I really enjoy the publication (RESTORER), there is not any other publication which has produced the level of tech information as the RESTORER. The other reason is so that I can be a thorn in their side. I don't hesitate to express my view points about some issues.
I'm a member of the local Okla chapter and so is Roy. MANY years ago, Roy and I had a long and very strong discussion. As a result of the outcome of that discussion, Roy and I are now good friends. And yes, after that discussion and the beginning of our friendship, Roy and I have had differences of opinion regarding NCRS's direction----------------------but we've worked through it. With this recent change, it will be interesting to see how it goes.

And last, for the most part, I'm in agreement with many of the above comments-----------------------such as the above comment that this discussion COULD NOT, and WOULD NOT take place on the NCRS forum.
Next Sat, I'm going to an NCRS sponsored all Corvette show with my Not Correctly Restored Solid axle 56. I'll be listening and observing.

early shark

I've read the NCRS thread and the CF thread and still don't know much?