NCRS Absurdity
06-09-2014, 07:50 AM
#61
Burning Brakes
On another thread I stated that I wasn't ever going to join the N**S and the next post stated, and I quote:
"glad to hear it, and we would not let you in anyway. We have high standards."
I guess if you call the way the N**S is acting "high standards" you can keep the club between whoever is in it now. As from my take on it, the membership is only getting older and will die off faster than new members are coming aboard.
"glad to hear it, and we would not let you in anyway. We have high standards."
I guess if you call the way the N**S is acting "high standards" you can keep the club between whoever is in it now. As from my take on it, the membership is only getting older and will die off faster than new members are coming aboard.
06-09-2014, 08:05 AM
#63
Team Owner
Actually
This topic would be inappropriate for Off Topic, because it is on a subject that many C1/C2 Owners are involved in and directly affect choices on how they build their cars and to what standard. Hearing about an error in a publication meant to be a guidance to others and sold for that purpose, should get aired out (discussed). Talking about what foreign counterfeit manufactured and correctly date stamped and coded this or that is accepted by an organization should get aired out!
I politely in the most political correct free speech respectfully beg to differ with you!
Last edited by TCracingCA; 06-09-2014 at 08:10 AM.
06-09-2014, 08:13 AM
#64
Team Owner
Hey Everyone, am I doing a good job!
I just want to make sure that they don't consider me for Honorary Membership!
:lurk :
:lurk :
06-09-2014, 08:25 AM
#65
Safety Car
The NCRS is a funny thing...
There are a few folks super involved and they kind of call the shots and run the show (like most orgs... i guess)
But there isn't a "modern" way for the underlings to provide feedback (like with an online forum section). They will tell you to talk to your regional rep... but that only has limited effect. I'll tell my regional rep something to bring up 3 months later at the next board meeting?
They are pretty crafty about their forum too... its run under the guise of a "technical" forum... so If you start asking questions or want to make suggestions about how the organisation is run ("Hey Toto, lets see what is behind this curtain"), it gets deleted or swept away.
It was a battle to get a classifieds over there... it did happen (after years of folks asking for it), but they were pretty sneaky in how they brought it about... it ended up being "pay to list" which has effectively killed it. Bravo NCRS, BRAVO...
I am surprised at the legal action threat for listing names of how folks voted/supported each other. Especially since it was posted here on the CF. One of the defenses the NCRS has used about improving the web/forum/classifieds is that so few members use the web that its not worth their while.
When an organization is run more like North Korea than a democracy it kind of makes you wonder....
There are a few folks super involved and they kind of call the shots and run the show (like most orgs... i guess)
But there isn't a "modern" way for the underlings to provide feedback (like with an online forum section). They will tell you to talk to your regional rep... but that only has limited effect. I'll tell my regional rep something to bring up 3 months later at the next board meeting?
They are pretty crafty about their forum too... its run under the guise of a "technical" forum... so If you start asking questions or want to make suggestions about how the organisation is run ("Hey Toto, lets see what is behind this curtain"), it gets deleted or swept away.
It was a battle to get a classifieds over there... it did happen (after years of folks asking for it), but they were pretty sneaky in how they brought it about... it ended up being "pay to list" which has effectively killed it. Bravo NCRS, BRAVO...
I am surprised at the legal action threat for listing names of how folks voted/supported each other. Especially since it was posted here on the CF. One of the defenses the NCRS has used about improving the web/forum/classifieds is that so few members use the web that its not worth their while.
When an organization is run more like North Korea than a democracy it kind of makes you wonder....
Last edited by Revfan; 06-09-2014 at 08:30 AM.
06-09-2014, 08:27 AM
#66
Safety Car
Member Since: Apr 2007
Location: PHOENIX AZ. WHAT A MAN WON"T SPEND TO GIVE HIS ASS A RIDE
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I and others have made an attempt to get the C1 and C2 sections split out-- General Discussion section, Technicial Section etc.. Thus no go yet! Thus the General that affects guys owning C1/C2 cars will get talked about here and so will the technical!
This topic would be inappropriate for Off Topic, because it is on a subject that many C1/C2 Owners are involved in and directly affect choices on how they build their cars and to what standard. Hearing about an error in a publication meant to be a guidance to others and sold for that purpose, should get aired out (discussed). Talking about what foreign counterfeit manufactured and correctly date stamped and coded this or that is accepted by an organization should get aired out!
I politely in the most political correct free speech respectfully beg to differ with you!
This topic would be inappropriate for Off Topic, because it is on a subject that many C1/C2 Owners are involved in and directly affect choices on how they build their cars and to what standard. Hearing about an error in a publication meant to be a guidance to others and sold for that purpose, should get aired out (discussed). Talking about what foreign counterfeit manufactured and correctly date stamped and coded this or that is accepted by an organization should get aired out!
I politely in the most political correct free speech respectfully beg to differ with you!
06-09-2014, 08:50 AM
#67
Supporting Lifetime
Member Since: Sep 2005
Location: Syracuse NY
Posts: 4,017
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2023 C1 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2022 Corvette of the Year Finalist -- Unmodified
2021 C1 of the Year Winner - Unmodified
2020 C1 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
2016 C1 of the Year Finalist
Just a quick heads-up to anyone from NCRS that may be reading this: I think I represent the demographic your organization needs to appeal to. Late 50's, long-time Corvette owner of multiple cars since 1972, now adding a C1 as a garage-mate for my C6 convertible. I belong to my local Corvette Club, and we have some lively debates regarding the NCRS. Please listen to me: You need to change. You need open, transparent, responsive NEW directors. Setting yourself up as THE authority on what is or is not correct for older Corvettes is not, in and of itself, a bad thing. I suppose it falls under the heading of "Somebody has to do it". There needs to be a Judging Guide to establish a level playing field for these large-dollar cars. Further, this guide needs to be a living, collaborative document, not one person's opinion. Believe me, as much as many of us know about Corvettes, there is ALWAYS someone out there who can correct us on certain things. And yes, this includes you NCRS directors. I understand that unfortunately the restoration and showing of classic Corvettes has become big business, with huge financial implications . . . . But brothers, you're taking all the fun out of what is still a hobby. Collecting priceless works of art is always serious, but when it stops being fun, only the $$$$$-minded will remain. And that will be the end.
I remember years ago at Corvettes at Carlisle, watching the 1953-1955s being judged . . . And an older man stood off to the side watching and listening. Turns out he worked at the St. Louis assembly plant just after the 1953s moved there from Flint. He actually appears in some of the well-known production line photos. He had a few quiet comments to make concerning the judges getting a few things wrong. To their credit, it was only a few, but it was the difference between first place and fourth. Yet no one listened to him, and following the theme of this thread, would the NCRS have valued his "corrections"? I'm sorry, but HE WAS THERE. The NCRS can, and should, play a valuable role in providing a reference for the correct restoration of classic Corvettes. I believe they are starting to fail in that role, and have positioned themselves on that slippery slope that leads to oblivion and irrelevance. JMHO, of course. It's not too late . . . Yet.
I remember years ago at Corvettes at Carlisle, watching the 1953-1955s being judged . . . And an older man stood off to the side watching and listening. Turns out he worked at the St. Louis assembly plant just after the 1953s moved there from Flint. He actually appears in some of the well-known production line photos. He had a few quiet comments to make concerning the judges getting a few things wrong. To their credit, it was only a few, but it was the difference between first place and fourth. Yet no one listened to him, and following the theme of this thread, would the NCRS have valued his "corrections"? I'm sorry, but HE WAS THERE. The NCRS can, and should, play a valuable role in providing a reference for the correct restoration of classic Corvettes. I believe they are starting to fail in that role, and have positioned themselves on that slippery slope that leads to oblivion and irrelevance. JMHO, of course. It's not too late . . . Yet.
06-09-2014, 08:58 AM
#68
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Dec 2009
Location: Plano IL
Posts: 5,107
Received 1,460 Likes
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C1 of Year Finalist (stock) 2019
2018 C1 of Year Finalist
for me personally - I enjoy NCRS
Everyone I have met has be helpful. I meet alot of a great people and very knowledgeable.
Seen alot of GREAT cars !!!!
For me the new manual came out - did I agree with everything?? - no - but its better than old manual.
and I have respectively disagreed and people listened.
I set three goals - I wanted a Top Flight, a Bloomington Gold and a Triple Diamond
I got all three
So this is the world I chose to play in and I enjoy it.
There will be politics and BS in every organization - I choose to stay away from it.....
I enjoy bringing these cars back to life - A peice of history and rolling art.
Peserving them for the next generation.
Chris Sherman Sr
NCRS #33359
Everyone I have met has be helpful. I meet alot of a great people and very knowledgeable.
Seen alot of GREAT cars !!!!
For me the new manual came out - did I agree with everything?? - no - but its better than old manual.
and I have respectively disagreed and people listened.
I set three goals - I wanted a Top Flight, a Bloomington Gold and a Triple Diamond
I got all three
So this is the world I chose to play in and I enjoy it.
There will be politics and BS in every organization - I choose to stay away from it.....
I enjoy bringing these cars back to life - A peice of history and rolling art.
Peserving them for the next generation.
Chris Sherman Sr
NCRS #33359
Last edited by csherman; 06-09-2014 at 10:56 AM.
06-09-2014, 09:05 AM
#69
Race Director
Since no one else has asked.........
Now that the NCRS will no longer be offering the document services, can we expect to see the service offered by another?
For those that have difficulty reading between the lines.....WHO has the rights/ownership of the information/list/microfiche/etc.. now?
WB
Frankie, I frequent the C 3 section mostly, there have many thread there that are truly OFF Topic. Each time I have attempted to alert the moderators they have returned a reply of "Folks on the C1/2 section don't care to visit OT, so we allow somewhat off topic discussions to remain". This has spread to other sections making it difficult there as well.
Now that the NCRS will no longer be offering the document services, can we expect to see the service offered by another?
For those that have difficulty reading between the lines.....WHO has the rights/ownership of the information/list/microfiche/etc.. now?
WB
Frankie, I frequent the C 3 section mostly, there have many thread there that are truly OFF Topic. Each time I have attempted to alert the moderators they have returned a reply of "Folks on the C1/2 section don't care to visit OT, so we allow somewhat off topic discussions to remain". This has spread to other sections making it difficult there as well.
06-09-2014, 09:25 AM
#70
Melting Slicks
NCRS has alienated the average Corvette guy. I say this because I'm the average Corvette guy and they have certainly alienated me. The guy that actually uses his Corvette(s) and wants to have fun!
IMO it's too late for them. The ship has sailed and the membership will literally die off.
If you have HBO one of the latest episodes of Real Sports has a piece on the AKC and how they have bastardized the dog breeds. It effectively shows that the AKC is really about the organization itself and not really about the dogs. This rings a bell here because IMO NCRS is the same. It's all about keeping the organization, the control, the authority. It has nothing to do with Corvettes anymore. Corvettes are just the platform.
IMO it's too late for them. The ship has sailed and the membership will literally die off.
If you have HBO one of the latest episodes of Real Sports has a piece on the AKC and how they have bastardized the dog breeds. It effectively shows that the AKC is really about the organization itself and not really about the dogs. This rings a bell here because IMO NCRS is the same. It's all about keeping the organization, the control, the authority. It has nothing to do with Corvettes anymore. Corvettes are just the platform.
06-09-2014, 09:42 AM
#71
Melting Slicks
[QUOTE=TCracingCA;1587089940]Talking about what foreign counterfeit manufactured and correctly date stamped and coded this or that is accepted by an organization should get aired out!
[QUOTE]
Is a part mfg to the same specs as the original a counterfeit? I think not. Does where a part is made have anything to do with the correctness of the part. In reality no. If it as 'as original' then I would use it in replicating the 'showroom condition' needed for an award.
If you talk to the venders that sell Corvette parts you will find being sourced overseas has become one of necessity, in our current mfg environment the companies that have the ability to produce the item won't because the order quantities are too small. This is in spite of the vender offering to pay the cost of the item at a point they both can make money. The current corp mindset in the US all about large volume.
I am currently involved in sourcing a part overseas because the US source wants us to buy in 10,000 size lots which we cannot afford yet. They had initially agreed to source in smaller lot sizes at a price they made money. I can get the item sourced overseas in lots of 1,000 for less cost. Its not the item cost that forced us overseas but the attitude of the US manufacturer.
The document service was put in place to prevent a seller from claiming some kind of NCRS award without that actually being true. It was spurred by an incident were a car went through a major auction where the owner claimed a car had been awarded top flight which was not true. Many of our members buy and sell at these auctions so to protect the integrity of the brand we advised the auction houses that this was going on (fraud) and provided a way for the buyer to authenticate his NCRS award claim, they jumped at the service since they would /could see some negative press if they did not put in place a method to stop the false claim. They now have a show me policy wherein the seller has to prove his claim either with the original NCRS documents or the affirmation from NCRS that that car in fact was judged.
As far as the Board, we elected them maybe its time to actively vote to change them, just think we could elect Roy to be a director, now that would be an interesting situation. I would suspect more NCRS members read these forums than the NCRS forum and it would be a way to start the movement.
Due to Roy Sinor’s decision to take a PAID position with Barrett Jackson, the NCRS Board of Directors voted to revised the Historic Documents Service Manager’s position (I would suspect to preclude said position from be an employee of the auction house ( I actually agree)).
The new position was offered to Roy and he declined the offer.
Currently the Document Validation Service is suspended until further notice. All other documents services will continue an usual.
Tyler
[QUOTE]
Is a part mfg to the same specs as the original a counterfeit? I think not. Does where a part is made have anything to do with the correctness of the part. In reality no. If it as 'as original' then I would use it in replicating the 'showroom condition' needed for an award.
If you talk to the venders that sell Corvette parts you will find being sourced overseas has become one of necessity, in our current mfg environment the companies that have the ability to produce the item won't because the order quantities are too small. This is in spite of the vender offering to pay the cost of the item at a point they both can make money. The current corp mindset in the US all about large volume.
I am currently involved in sourcing a part overseas because the US source wants us to buy in 10,000 size lots which we cannot afford yet. They had initially agreed to source in smaller lot sizes at a price they made money. I can get the item sourced overseas in lots of 1,000 for less cost. Its not the item cost that forced us overseas but the attitude of the US manufacturer.
The document service was put in place to prevent a seller from claiming some kind of NCRS award without that actually being true. It was spurred by an incident were a car went through a major auction where the owner claimed a car had been awarded top flight which was not true. Many of our members buy and sell at these auctions so to protect the integrity of the brand we advised the auction houses that this was going on (fraud) and provided a way for the buyer to authenticate his NCRS award claim, they jumped at the service since they would /could see some negative press if they did not put in place a method to stop the false claim. They now have a show me policy wherein the seller has to prove his claim either with the original NCRS documents or the affirmation from NCRS that that car in fact was judged.
As far as the Board, we elected them maybe its time to actively vote to change them, just think we could elect Roy to be a director, now that would be an interesting situation. I would suspect more NCRS members read these forums than the NCRS forum and it would be a way to start the movement.
Due to Roy Sinor’s decision to take a PAID position with Barrett Jackson, the NCRS Board of Directors voted to revised the Historic Documents Service Manager’s position (I would suspect to preclude said position from be an employee of the auction house ( I actually agree)).
The new position was offered to Roy and he declined the offer.
Currently the Document Validation Service is suspended until further notice. All other documents services will continue an usual.
Tyler
Last edited by Tyler Townsley; 06-09-2014 at 10:15 AM.
06-09-2014, 10:00 AM
#72
Team Owner
I don't need a lecture on free speech. I'm a Vietnam-era veteran and a retired Director from the Department of Justice. I've worked hard throughout a lifetime to support the rights of Americans including the First Amendment.
This thread is hardly about the technical aspects of building our cars (correctly or otherwise). It's a political rant about an organization that you don't have to join that could more appropriately be elsewhere on the forum IMO.
You either subscribe the NCRS "objective standard" to achieve some threshold of recognition or not. Changing the process that modifies the "objective standard" and "who shot John" could well be discussed some other place.
Accusatory, unsubstantiated posts about individuals' actions (names redacted now, but not initially) in regard to some other person are totally out-of-place here.
This thread is hardly about the technical aspects of building our cars (correctly or otherwise). It's a political rant about an organization that you don't have to join that could more appropriately be elsewhere on the forum IMO.
You either subscribe the NCRS "objective standard" to achieve some threshold of recognition or not. Changing the process that modifies the "objective standard" and "who shot John" could well be discussed some other place.
Accusatory, unsubstantiated posts about individuals' actions (names redacted now, but not initially) in regard to some other person are totally out-of-place here.
Last edited by vettebuyer6369; 06-09-2014 at 12:08 PM. Reason: criticism about moderation removed
06-09-2014, 10:06 AM
#73
I swore to myself that I was not going to chime in on this thread, but I find myself in a position where I can not remain silent on this topic.
As some of you may know, I am an NCRS judge. I love the organization. I have met some of the greatest guys and gals in the world through this organization. Jeez - half my bridal party at my wedding were NCRS guys. The mission statement and goal of the club is well intended and meant to be fun and educational. It is NOT for everyone. However, some of you guys need to try some decaf. If you're a republican, don't join an democratic political party. If you're a NY Rangers, don't go to a NJ Devils fundraiser. Noone is forcing anyone here to join, be a part of, volunteer at, donate to, etc the NCRS. If you don't like, who cares? You don't have to join. I am not a Ford fan, so do I get my panties in bunch over the guys who bleed Ford blue? No....why..??? Cause I don't care. To each his own.
And for those of you who complain about the NCRS not being perfect and not having every single thing absolutely correct (in your subjective eyes by the way) then instead of complaining and moaning about it - JOIN and assist with correcting whatever flaws are there and don't just sit back on your couches and point and criticize. Put your big boy pants on and throw your hat in the ring. I personally have seen numerous revisions to the 67 JM. Anyone read it lately? It's by the far the single most comprehensive manual out there. PERIOD. Now will the guys who think going to Pep Boys is "restoring" their car agree? No, because they just want a part that works. That is fine, but don't tell me it "original" when it's stamped on the back "Made in China". Not every car has to be original, hell I just bought a 66 coupe with an NOM. WHO CARES. But for the guys that want their cars restored back to original, they are entitled to do what they want with their cars. If you think they got it wrong, grow a set and educate the rest of us as to why we have it wrong. NCRS isn't perfect. Numerous changes were made to the new 67 JM after years of collaboration amongst many judges based upon inspecting many original examples. Extrapolate data, and make an informed conclusion. When every single 67 Corvette came off the factory line without any fender emblems, it stands to reason that that is how they all were. If you disagree, you better come to the table with a lot of data and research, and not just "those guys got it all wrong".....
NCRS guys all share a level of lunacy. I mean that in a complimentary way - as I am one of them. Some guys don't care about the correct finish on an intake bolt. Some do. Don't bash the guys that do just because you don't know what the correct finish should be or if you don't care. Some others might. I like Miller lite, I don't go around telling every Bud light drinker that he's a complete a-H*^^%.
I've had my Jerry Macguire moment. LOL.... ARA. NCRS #48542
As some of you may know, I am an NCRS judge. I love the organization. I have met some of the greatest guys and gals in the world through this organization. Jeez - half my bridal party at my wedding were NCRS guys. The mission statement and goal of the club is well intended and meant to be fun and educational. It is NOT for everyone. However, some of you guys need to try some decaf. If you're a republican, don't join an democratic political party. If you're a NY Rangers, don't go to a NJ Devils fundraiser. Noone is forcing anyone here to join, be a part of, volunteer at, donate to, etc the NCRS. If you don't like, who cares? You don't have to join. I am not a Ford fan, so do I get my panties in bunch over the guys who bleed Ford blue? No....why..??? Cause I don't care. To each his own.
And for those of you who complain about the NCRS not being perfect and not having every single thing absolutely correct (in your subjective eyes by the way) then instead of complaining and moaning about it - JOIN and assist with correcting whatever flaws are there and don't just sit back on your couches and point and criticize. Put your big boy pants on and throw your hat in the ring. I personally have seen numerous revisions to the 67 JM. Anyone read it lately? It's by the far the single most comprehensive manual out there. PERIOD. Now will the guys who think going to Pep Boys is "restoring" their car agree? No, because they just want a part that works. That is fine, but don't tell me it "original" when it's stamped on the back "Made in China". Not every car has to be original, hell I just bought a 66 coupe with an NOM. WHO CARES. But for the guys that want their cars restored back to original, they are entitled to do what they want with their cars. If you think they got it wrong, grow a set and educate the rest of us as to why we have it wrong. NCRS isn't perfect. Numerous changes were made to the new 67 JM after years of collaboration amongst many judges based upon inspecting many original examples. Extrapolate data, and make an informed conclusion. When every single 67 Corvette came off the factory line without any fender emblems, it stands to reason that that is how they all were. If you disagree, you better come to the table with a lot of data and research, and not just "those guys got it all wrong".....
NCRS guys all share a level of lunacy. I mean that in a complimentary way - as I am one of them. Some guys don't care about the correct finish on an intake bolt. Some do. Don't bash the guys that do just because you don't know what the correct finish should be or if you don't care. Some others might. I like Miller lite, I don't go around telling every Bud light drinker that he's a complete a-H*^^%.
I've had my Jerry Macguire moment. LOL.... ARA. NCRS #48542
06-09-2014, 10:07 AM
#74
Team Owner
Member Since: Mar 2003
Location: Greenville, Indiana
Posts: 26,118
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1,398 Posts
06-09-2014, 10:30 AM
#75
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Dec 2009
Location: Plano IL
Posts: 5,107
Received 1,460 Likes
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742 Posts
C1 of Year Finalist (stock) 2019
2018 C1 of Year Finalist
I swore to myself that I was not going to chime in on this thread, but I find myself in a position where I can not remain silent on this topic.
As some of you may know, I am an NCRS judge. I love the organization. I have met some of the greatest guys and gals in the world through this organization. Jeez - half my bridal party at my wedding were NCRS guys. The mission statement and goal of the club is well intended and meant to be fun and educational. It is NOT for everyone. However, some of you guys need to try some decaf. If you're a republican, don't join an democratic political party. If you're a NY Rangers, don't go to a NJ Devils fundraiser. Noone is forcing anyone here to join, be a part of, volunteer at, donate to, etc the NCRS. If you don't like, who cares? You don't have to join. I am not a Ford fan, so do I get my panties in bunch over the guys who bleed Ford blue? No....why..??? Cause I don't care. To each his own.
And for those of you who complain about the NCRS not being perfect and not having every single thing absolutely correct (in your subjective eyes by the way) then instead of complaining and moaning about it - JOIN and assist with correcting whatever flaws are there and don't just sit back on your couches and point and criticize. Put your big boy pants on and throw your hat in the ring. I personally have seen numerous revisions to the 67 JM. Anyone read it lately? It's by the far the single most comprehensive manual out there. PERIOD. Now will the guys who think going to Pep Boys is "restoring" their car agree? No, because they just want a part that works. That is fine, but don't tell me it "original" when it's stamped on the back "Made in China". Not every car has to be original, hell I just bought a 66 coupe with an NOM. WHO CARES. But for the guys that want their cars restored back to original, they are entitled to do what they want with their cars. If you think they got it wrong, grow a set and educate the rest of us as to why we have it wrong. NCRS isn't perfect. Numerous changes were made to the new 67 JM after years of collaboration amongst many judges based upon inspecting many original examples. Extrapolate data, and make an informed conclusion. When every single 67 Corvette came off the factory line without any fender emblems, it stands to reason that that is how they all were. If you disagree, you better come to the table with a lot of data and research, and not just "those guys got it all wrong".....
NCRS guys all share a level of lunacy. I mean that in a complimentary way - as I am one of them. Some guys don't care about the correct finish on an intake bolt. Some do. Don't bash the guys that do just because you don't know what the correct finish should be or if you don't care. Some others might. I like Miller lite, I don't go around telling every Bud light drinker that he's a complete a-H*^^%.
I've had my Jerry Macguire moment. LOL.... ARA. NCRS #48542
As some of you may know, I am an NCRS judge. I love the organization. I have met some of the greatest guys and gals in the world through this organization. Jeez - half my bridal party at my wedding were NCRS guys. The mission statement and goal of the club is well intended and meant to be fun and educational. It is NOT for everyone. However, some of you guys need to try some decaf. If you're a republican, don't join an democratic political party. If you're a NY Rangers, don't go to a NJ Devils fundraiser. Noone is forcing anyone here to join, be a part of, volunteer at, donate to, etc the NCRS. If you don't like, who cares? You don't have to join. I am not a Ford fan, so do I get my panties in bunch over the guys who bleed Ford blue? No....why..??? Cause I don't care. To each his own.
And for those of you who complain about the NCRS not being perfect and not having every single thing absolutely correct (in your subjective eyes by the way) then instead of complaining and moaning about it - JOIN and assist with correcting whatever flaws are there and don't just sit back on your couches and point and criticize. Put your big boy pants on and throw your hat in the ring. I personally have seen numerous revisions to the 67 JM. Anyone read it lately? It's by the far the single most comprehensive manual out there. PERIOD. Now will the guys who think going to Pep Boys is "restoring" their car agree? No, because they just want a part that works. That is fine, but don't tell me it "original" when it's stamped on the back "Made in China". Not every car has to be original, hell I just bought a 66 coupe with an NOM. WHO CARES. But for the guys that want their cars restored back to original, they are entitled to do what they want with their cars. If you think they got it wrong, grow a set and educate the rest of us as to why we have it wrong. NCRS isn't perfect. Numerous changes were made to the new 67 JM after years of collaboration amongst many judges based upon inspecting many original examples. Extrapolate data, and make an informed conclusion. When every single 67 Corvette came off the factory line without any fender emblems, it stands to reason that that is how they all were. If you disagree, you better come to the table with a lot of data and research, and not just "those guys got it all wrong".....
NCRS guys all share a level of lunacy. I mean that in a complimentary way - as I am one of them. Some guys don't care about the correct finish on an intake bolt. Some do. Don't bash the guys that do just because you don't know what the correct finish should be or if you don't care. Some others might. I like Miller lite, I don't go around telling every Bud light drinker that he's a complete a-H*^^%.
I've had my Jerry Macguire moment. LOL.... ARA. NCRS #48542
06-09-2014, 10:32 AM
#76
Pro
I swore to myself that I was not going to chime in on this thread, but I find myself in a position where I can not remain silent on this topic.
As some of you may know, I am an NCRS judge. I love the organization. I have met some of the greatest guys and gals in the world through this organization. Jeez - half my bridal party at my wedding were NCRS guys. The mission statement and goal of the club is well intended and meant to be fun and educational. It is NOT for everyone. However, some of you guys need to try some decaf. If you're a republican, don't join an democratic political party. If you're a NY Rangers, don't go to a NJ Devils fundraiser. Noone is forcing anyone here to join, be a part of, volunteer at, donate to, etc the NCRS. If you don't like, who cares? You don't have to join. I am not a Ford fan, so do I get my panties in bunch over the guys who bleed Ford blue? No....why..??? Cause I don't care. To each his own.
And for those of you who complain about the NCRS not being perfect and not having every single thing absolutely correct (in your subjective eyes by the way) then instead of complaining and moaning about it - JOIN and assist with correcting whatever flaws are there and don't just sit back on your couches and point and criticize. Put your big boy pants on and throw your hat in the ring. I personally have seen numerous revisions to the 67 JM. Anyone read it lately? It's by the far the single most comprehensive manual out there. PERIOD. Now will the guys who think going to Pep Boys is "restoring" their car agree? No, because they just want a part that works. That is fine, but don't tell me it "original" when it's stamped on the back "Made in China". Not every car has to be original, hell I just bought a 66 coupe with an NOM. WHO CARES. But for the guys that want their cars restored back to original, they are entitled to do what they want with their cars. If you think they got it wrong, grow a set and educate the rest of us as to why we have it wrong. NCRS isn't perfect. Numerous changes were made to the new 67 JM after years of collaboration amongst many judges based upon inspecting many original examples. Extrapolate data, and make an informed conclusion. When every single 67 Corvette came off the factory line without any fender emblems, it stands to reason that that is how they all were. If you disagree, you better come to the table with a lot of data and research, and not just "those guys got it all wrong".....
NCRS guys all share a level of lunacy. I mean that in a complimentary way - as I am one of them. Some guys don't care about the correct finish on an intake bolt. Some do. Don't bash the guys that do just because you don't know what the correct finish should be or if you don't care. Some others might. I like Miller lite, I don't go around telling every Bud light drinker that he's a complete a-H*^^%.
I've had my Jerry Macguire moment. LOL.... ARA. NCRS #48542
As some of you may know, I am an NCRS judge. I love the organization. I have met some of the greatest guys and gals in the world through this organization. Jeez - half my bridal party at my wedding were NCRS guys. The mission statement and goal of the club is well intended and meant to be fun and educational. It is NOT for everyone. However, some of you guys need to try some decaf. If you're a republican, don't join an democratic political party. If you're a NY Rangers, don't go to a NJ Devils fundraiser. Noone is forcing anyone here to join, be a part of, volunteer at, donate to, etc the NCRS. If you don't like, who cares? You don't have to join. I am not a Ford fan, so do I get my panties in bunch over the guys who bleed Ford blue? No....why..??? Cause I don't care. To each his own.
And for those of you who complain about the NCRS not being perfect and not having every single thing absolutely correct (in your subjective eyes by the way) then instead of complaining and moaning about it - JOIN and assist with correcting whatever flaws are there and don't just sit back on your couches and point and criticize. Put your big boy pants on and throw your hat in the ring. I personally have seen numerous revisions to the 67 JM. Anyone read it lately? It's by the far the single most comprehensive manual out there. PERIOD. Now will the guys who think going to Pep Boys is "restoring" their car agree? No, because they just want a part that works. That is fine, but don't tell me it "original" when it's stamped on the back "Made in China". Not every car has to be original, hell I just bought a 66 coupe with an NOM. WHO CARES. But for the guys that want their cars restored back to original, they are entitled to do what they want with their cars. If you think they got it wrong, grow a set and educate the rest of us as to why we have it wrong. NCRS isn't perfect. Numerous changes were made to the new 67 JM after years of collaboration amongst many judges based upon inspecting many original examples. Extrapolate data, and make an informed conclusion. When every single 67 Corvette came off the factory line without any fender emblems, it stands to reason that that is how they all were. If you disagree, you better come to the table with a lot of data and research, and not just "those guys got it all wrong".....
NCRS guys all share a level of lunacy. I mean that in a complimentary way - as I am one of them. Some guys don't care about the correct finish on an intake bolt. Some do. Don't bash the guys that do just because you don't know what the correct finish should be or if you don't care. Some others might. I like Miller lite, I don't go around telling every Bud light drinker that he's a complete a-H*^^%.
I've had my Jerry Macguire moment. LOL.... ARA. NCRS #48542
NCRS #16058
06-09-2014, 11:24 AM
#77
Melting Slicks
I swore to myself that I was not going to chime in on this thread, but I find myself in a position where I can not remain silent on this topic.
As some of you may know, I am an NCRS judge. I love the organization. I have met some of the greatest guys and gals in the world through this organization. Jeez - half my bridal party at my wedding were NCRS guys. The mission statement and goal of the club is well intended and meant to be fun and educational. It is NOT for everyone. However, some of you guys need to try some decaf. If you're a republican, don't join an democratic political party. If you're a NY Rangers, don't go to a NJ Devils fundraiser. Noone is forcing anyone here to join, be a part of, volunteer at, donate to, etc the NCRS. If you don't like, who cares? You don't have to join. I am not a Ford fan, so do I get my panties in bunch over the guys who bleed Ford blue? No....why..??? Cause I don't care. To each his own.
And for those of you who complain about the NCRS not being perfect and not having every single thing absolutely correct (in your subjective eyes by the way) then instead of complaining and moaning about it - JOIN and assist with correcting whatever flaws are there and don't just sit back on your couches and point and criticize. Put your big boy pants on and throw your hat in the ring. I personally have seen numerous revisions to the 67 JM. Anyone read it lately? It's by the far the single most comprehensive manual out there. PERIOD. Now will the guys who think going to Pep Boys is "restoring" their car agree? No, because they just want a part that works. That is fine, but don't tell me it "original" when it's stamped on the back "Made in China". Not every car has to be original, hell I just bought a 66 coupe with an NOM. WHO CARES. But for the guys that want their cars restored back to original, they are entitled to do what they want with their cars. If you think they got it wrong, grow a set and educate the rest of us as to why we have it wrong. NCRS isn't perfect. Numerous changes were made to the new 67 JM after years of collaboration amongst many judges based upon inspecting many original examples. Extrapolate data, and make an informed conclusion. When every single 67 Corvette came off the factory line without any fender emblems, it stands to reason that that is how they all were. If you disagree, you better come to the table with a lot of data and research, and not just "those guys got it all wrong".....
NCRS guys all share a level of lunacy. I mean that in a complimentary way - as I am one of them. Some guys don't care about the correct finish on an intake bolt. Some do. Don't bash the guys that do just because you don't know what the correct finish should be or if you don't care. Some others might. I like Miller lite, I don't go around telling every Bud light drinker that he's a complete a-H*^^%.
I've had my Jerry Macguire moment. LOL.... ARA. NCRS #48542
As some of you may know, I am an NCRS judge. I love the organization. I have met some of the greatest guys and gals in the world through this organization. Jeez - half my bridal party at my wedding were NCRS guys. The mission statement and goal of the club is well intended and meant to be fun and educational. It is NOT for everyone. However, some of you guys need to try some decaf. If you're a republican, don't join an democratic political party. If you're a NY Rangers, don't go to a NJ Devils fundraiser. Noone is forcing anyone here to join, be a part of, volunteer at, donate to, etc the NCRS. If you don't like, who cares? You don't have to join. I am not a Ford fan, so do I get my panties in bunch over the guys who bleed Ford blue? No....why..??? Cause I don't care. To each his own.
And for those of you who complain about the NCRS not being perfect and not having every single thing absolutely correct (in your subjective eyes by the way) then instead of complaining and moaning about it - JOIN and assist with correcting whatever flaws are there and don't just sit back on your couches and point and criticize. Put your big boy pants on and throw your hat in the ring. I personally have seen numerous revisions to the 67 JM. Anyone read it lately? It's by the far the single most comprehensive manual out there. PERIOD. Now will the guys who think going to Pep Boys is "restoring" their car agree? No, because they just want a part that works. That is fine, but don't tell me it "original" when it's stamped on the back "Made in China". Not every car has to be original, hell I just bought a 66 coupe with an NOM. WHO CARES. But for the guys that want their cars restored back to original, they are entitled to do what they want with their cars. If you think they got it wrong, grow a set and educate the rest of us as to why we have it wrong. NCRS isn't perfect. Numerous changes were made to the new 67 JM after years of collaboration amongst many judges based upon inspecting many original examples. Extrapolate data, and make an informed conclusion. When every single 67 Corvette came off the factory line without any fender emblems, it stands to reason that that is how they all were. If you disagree, you better come to the table with a lot of data and research, and not just "those guys got it all wrong".....
NCRS guys all share a level of lunacy. I mean that in a complimentary way - as I am one of them. Some guys don't care about the correct finish on an intake bolt. Some do. Don't bash the guys that do just because you don't know what the correct finish should be or if you don't care. Some others might. I like Miller lite, I don't go around telling every Bud light drinker that he's a complete a-H*^^%.
I've had my Jerry Macguire moment. LOL.... ARA. NCRS #48542
From time to time, every category has some issues but the 63-64 section is plagued with them and has been for more than a decade.
There's no excuse for this.
I have to wonder how much money and time has been wasted restoring these cars incorrectly over the last decade just because the TL refuses to admit he is hopelessly wrong on so many issues.
06-09-2014, 11:58 AM
#78
Administrator
Member Since: Jul 2000
Location: About 1100 miles from where I call home. Blue lives matter.
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OK, I received a number of complaints on this thread for a number of reasons. Regarding whether its Off Topic, I do think the moderation staff has allowed more latitude on topics not related to Corvettes in C1/2 and in turn, C3 in recent times. However, my opinion is that this thread is much more related to Corvettes than the majority of some topics that have been allowed to run through a discussion.
I also tried to leave this open for a bit as the argument regarding "pro" vs "con" NCRS is endless and ongoing, and generally when the threads are closed there comments about taking a side. Thats not the case.
But, the main issue right now to me is, a very specific development regarding the heirarchy of NCRS was notified by the OP in creating this thread. That OP has since been edited due to threats of legal action. The topic was lightly discussed, but the majority of the ensuing conversation has spiraled into the "NCRS, yes or no" debate and all that entails. Its also spawned a handful of personal fires that I believe can only get worse, so I'm making the call to close this thread at this time as its way off course from its original intent.
I also tried to leave this open for a bit as the argument regarding "pro" vs "con" NCRS is endless and ongoing, and generally when the threads are closed there comments about taking a side. Thats not the case.
But, the main issue right now to me is, a very specific development regarding the heirarchy of NCRS was notified by the OP in creating this thread. That OP has since been edited due to threats of legal action. The topic was lightly discussed, but the majority of the ensuing conversation has spiraled into the "NCRS, yes or no" debate and all that entails. Its also spawned a handful of personal fires that I believe can only get worse, so I'm making the call to close this thread at this time as its way off course from its original intent.
