65 Engine dies won't start or even click.
05-17-2014, 09:53 AM
#1
Team Owner
Thread Starter
65 Engine dies won't start or even click.
This post is for rcameron. I started the new one because his issue is tacked on the end of an old thread and I wanted to be sure that you helpful guys didn't skip it due to the age.
Rob's issue is a little different in that all electrical still works, but it won't turn over.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-a...ont-start.html
Here are the symptoms:
1. Issue seems to occur after about 25-30 minutes of drive time and the car heats up.
2. While driving, the car will just lose power and die. While driving down the road, because of wind noise, etc, you notice it at first because the RPM’s start dying off.
3. Typically, it will restart for a couple times so you can limp to the side of the road.
4. The car then won’t turn over at all and when you turn they key there is no noises from the engine at all, no starter click or anything, he only thing you see is the amp gauge peg to the left when you try to start the car. All the while you have lights, radio, clock and seemingly all power to the cabin of the car.
5. No smells or “hot” odors under the engine.
6. After sitting for a period of time 30-45 minutes, it tried to start once, turned over, but wouldn’t fire. Once I stop turning over the engine, I would try again and it would be back in the state where only thing would happen is the amp gauge would peg to the left. Every half hour or so the car would try starting once, but then never fire. Note that at no time did it “smell” flooded (but maybe it was).
7. After about 2.5 hours of sitting, I turned the key, the car fired up and drove/ran normal the three miles I had to get home.
8. Got it home and it idles fine, starts over and over with no issue.
9. Again, if I do step #1 the issue shows up.
Rob's issue is a little different in that all electrical still works, but it won't turn over.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-a...ont-start.html
Here are the symptoms:
1. Issue seems to occur after about 25-30 minutes of drive time and the car heats up.
2. While driving, the car will just lose power and die. While driving down the road, because of wind noise, etc, you notice it at first because the RPM’s start dying off.
3. Typically, it will restart for a couple times so you can limp to the side of the road.
4. The car then won’t turn over at all and when you turn they key there is no noises from the engine at all, no starter click or anything, he only thing you see is the amp gauge peg to the left when you try to start the car. All the while you have lights, radio, clock and seemingly all power to the cabin of the car.
5. No smells or “hot” odors under the engine.
6. After sitting for a period of time 30-45 minutes, it tried to start once, turned over, but wouldn’t fire. Once I stop turning over the engine, I would try again and it would be back in the state where only thing would happen is the amp gauge would peg to the left. Every half hour or so the car would try starting once, but then never fire. Note that at no time did it “smell” flooded (but maybe it was).
7. After about 2.5 hours of sitting, I turned the key, the car fired up and drove/ran normal the three miles I had to get home.
8. Got it home and it idles fine, starts over and over with no issue.
9. Again, if I do step #1 the issue shows up.
05-17-2014, 12:28 PM
#2
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From a purely shade tree 
perspective I would first try the coil then the condenser. 
Dennis
perspective I would first try the coil then the condenser. Dennis
05-17-2014, 12:33 PM
#3
This post is for rcameron. I started the new one because his issue is tacked on the end of an old thread and I wanted to be sure that you helpful guys didn't skip it due to the age.
Rob's issue is a little different in that all electrical still works, but it won't turn over.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-a...ont-start.html
Here are the symptoms:
1. Issue seems to occur after about 25-30 minutes of drive time and the car heats up.
2. While driving, the car will just lose power and die. While driving down the road, because of wind noise, etc, you notice it at first because the RPM’s start dying off.
3. Typically, it will restart for a couple times so you can limp to the side of the road.
4. The car then won’t turn over at all and when you turn they key there is no noises from the engine at all, no starter click or anything, he only thing you see is the amp gauge peg to the left when you try to start the car. All the while you have lights, radio, clock and seemingly all power to the cabin of the car.
5. No smells or “hot” odors under the engine.
6. After sitting for a period of time 30-45 minutes, it tried to start once, turned over, but wouldn’t fire. Once I stop turning over the engine, I would try again and it would be back in the state where only thing would happen is the amp gauge would peg to the left. Every half hour or so the car would try starting once, but then never fire. Note that at no time did it “smell” flooded (but maybe it was).
7. After about 2.5 hours of sitting, I turned the key, the car fired up and drove/ran normal the three miles I had to get home.
8. Got it home and it idles fine, starts over and over with no issue.
9. Again, if I do step #1 the issue shows up.
Rob's issue is a little different in that all electrical still works, but it won't turn over.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c1-a...ont-start.html
Here are the symptoms:
1. Issue seems to occur after about 25-30 minutes of drive time and the car heats up.
2. While driving, the car will just lose power and die. While driving down the road, because of wind noise, etc, you notice it at first because the RPM’s start dying off.
3. Typically, it will restart for a couple times so you can limp to the side of the road.
4. The car then won’t turn over at all and when you turn they key there is no noises from the engine at all, no starter click or anything, he only thing you see is the amp gauge peg to the left when you try to start the car. All the while you have lights, radio, clock and seemingly all power to the cabin of the car.
5. No smells or “hot” odors under the engine.
6. After sitting for a period of time 30-45 minutes, it tried to start once, turned over, but wouldn’t fire. Once I stop turning over the engine, I would try again and it would be back in the state where only thing would happen is the amp gauge would peg to the left. Every half hour or so the car would try starting once, but then never fire. Note that at no time did it “smell” flooded (but maybe it was).
7. After about 2.5 hours of sitting, I turned the key, the car fired up and drove/ran normal the three miles I had to get home.
8. Got it home and it idles fine, starts over and over with no issue.
9. Again, if I do step #1 the issue shows up.
You may have more than one problem going on there. Get a 12V coil from NAPA and install it in the correct position so the ignition shield doesn't short the + and - terminals and go for another ride.
Next, try and check the resistance in the battery terminals and test the fully charged battery just to make sure that area is good. When resistance is high, heat can cause problems you are experiencing. Make sure the terminals are clean where they attach to the battery and starter.
05-17-2014, 01:08 PM
#4
Team Owner
Thread Starter
You may have more than one problem going on there. Get a 12V coil from NAPA and install it in the correct position so the ignition shield doesn't short the + and - terminals and go for another ride.
Next, try and check the resistance in the battery terminals and test the fully charged battery just to make sure that area is good. When resistance is high, heat can cause problems you are experiencing. Make sure the terminals are clean where they attach to the battery and starter.
Next, try and check the resistance in the battery terminals and test the fully charged battery just to make sure that area is good. When resistance is high, heat can cause problems you are experiencing. Make sure the terminals are clean where they attach to the battery and starter.
05-17-2014, 01:45 PM
#5
"only thing you see is the amp gauge peg to the left when you try to start the car"
Does the meter peg left when the ignition switch is turned to "on" or "start" of both?
CUL Jim
Does the meter peg left when the ignition switch is turned to "on" or "start" of both?
CUL Jim
05-17-2014, 01:59 PM
#6
Team Owner
Thread Starter
05-17-2014, 02:20 PM
#7
64GGvert
Interesting.
If the meter pegs to the left that means the battery voltage at the horn relay is significantly lower than the solenoid terminal. indicating a very heavy load.
But, there isn't any normal load on that side of the meter that is activated by moving the ignition switch to the start position. I think the only circuit activated by moving the key to start is the starter solenoid.
Moving the key to the start position activates the "SOL" terminal. that has a wire directly through the firewall to the neutral safety switch. If a 4spd that wire is jumpered to the "S" terminal on the starter.
Very confusing!
Another quick question. When you say " the car will just lose power and die", does the meter peg to the left at the time it looses power and dies?
CUL Jim
Interesting.
If the meter pegs to the left that means the battery voltage at the horn relay is significantly lower than the solenoid terminal. indicating a very heavy load.
But, there isn't any normal load on that side of the meter that is activated by moving the ignition switch to the start position. I think the only circuit activated by moving the key to start is the starter solenoid.
Moving the key to the start position activates the "SOL" terminal. that has a wire directly through the firewall to the neutral safety switch. If a 4spd that wire is jumpered to the "S" terminal on the starter.
Very confusing!
Another quick question. When you say " the car will just lose power and die", does the meter peg to the left at the time it looses power and dies?
CUL Jim
05-17-2014, 02:37 PM
#8
65GGvert
Was perusing the wiring diagram ( mine is a 67 ) and realized what is happening can be explained.
Main cabin voltage from the horn relay via the #12 Red wire goes to the Ignition switch. When the switch is turned to start the #12ppl wire to the solenoid is activated. If that wire is shorted, or if the solenoid is shorted to ground, or the ignition switch shorts it to ground, it would draw enough current to peg the meter to the left.
I would run that Purple wire all the way to the solenoid to make sure it isn't shorted or shorting somewhere, or replace the solenoid.
CUL Jim
Was perusing the wiring diagram ( mine is a 67 ) and realized what is happening can be explained.
Main cabin voltage from the horn relay via the #12 Red wire goes to the Ignition switch. When the switch is turned to start the #12ppl wire to the solenoid is activated. If that wire is shorted, or if the solenoid is shorted to ground, or the ignition switch shorts it to ground, it would draw enough current to peg the meter to the left.
I would run that Purple wire all the way to the solenoid to make sure it isn't shorted or shorting somewhere, or replace the solenoid.
CUL Jim
05-17-2014, 04:41 PM
#9
Team Owner
Thread Starter
65GGvert
Was perusing the wiring diagram ( mine is a 67 ) and realized what is happening can be explained.
Main cabin voltage from the horn relay via the #12 Red wire goes to the Ignition switch. When the switch is turned to start the #12ppl wire to the solenoid is activated. If that wire is shorted, or if the solenoid is shorted to ground, or the ignition switch shorts it to ground, it would draw enough current to peg the meter to the left.
I would run that Purple wire all the way to the solenoid to make sure it isn't shorted or shorting somewhere, or replace the solenoid.
CUL Jim
Was perusing the wiring diagram ( mine is a 67 ) and realized what is happening can be explained.
Main cabin voltage from the horn relay via the #12 Red wire goes to the Ignition switch. When the switch is turned to start the #12ppl wire to the solenoid is activated. If that wire is shorted, or if the solenoid is shorted to ground, or the ignition switch shorts it to ground, it would draw enough current to peg the meter to the left.
I would run that Purple wire all the way to the solenoid to make sure it isn't shorted or shorting somewhere, or replace the solenoid.
CUL Jim
05-17-2014, 05:44 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
I will take a guess; No burn't wires or blown fuses. Wiring appears ok, no start when hot and battery meter does peg. I think that when hot the battery can not supply current. The battery could be fine but it can not deliver the current when hot. My guess would be the battery cables. They can visually pass an inspection but not internally. Voltage and resistance can be checked with a multi meter. Current is a bit more of a challenge. A high current draw through fuse protected circuits will blow fuses. Unprotected circuits will melt wires. So far you have neiher, try getting closer to the source. Battery and the starter area is a high temp area. Inspect closely, terminal rings on the battery, starter and solenoid. I recomend putting a fuse in the battery meter wire for trouble shooting.
Keep us informed.
Brgds;
Rene
Keep us informed.
Brgds;
Rene
05-17-2014, 11:21 PM
#12
It is possible the battery itself is shorting out. It would explain the symptoms. Try swapping a battery. Easy and not much time involved. If the battery is shorting out when hot, a jumper battery may not show any changes as it will be shorted through the 1st battery, so do a swap.
05-17-2014, 11:42 PM
#13
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05-18-2014, 10:21 AM
#14
65GGvert
I can't explain why it dies while driving. Almost seems like there are two problems, though I doubt it. I was attacking the one that can be explained. Turn key to start, no click on solenoid, draws tons of current, must be shorted at solenoid or somewhere in the #12 purple wire between ignition switch and solenoid.
Find that and the cause of the other problem might be revealed.
CUL Jim
I can't explain why it dies while driving. Almost seems like there are two problems, though I doubt it. I was attacking the one that can be explained. Turn key to start, no click on solenoid, draws tons of current, must be shorted at solenoid or somewhere in the #12 purple wire between ignition switch and solenoid.
Find that and the cause of the other problem might be revealed.
CUL Jim
