justsomeguy1

Hello Guys and Gals, I hope everybody had a great Easter.
Maybe you can help.
I have a Black 65 that has an older restoration on it. Everything is great but the paint job is lacking. No bubbles or any thing like that, just some low areas in the fiberglass body and flaws and chips in the paint.

My question is... I am thinking of just wet sanding it down, fix the low areas with a skim coat of filler, prime those areas with a tinted primer wet sand those areas and having it painted.

What do you think???
I really do not want to strip the paint if I do not have to.

Thanks for your time.

robert miller

How long do you want it to last for you. You don't have to do that.

justsomeguy1

I am open for suggestions. about 10 years I guess.

Roger Walling

The paints that are on the market now must be applied under the chrome trim or in time they will flake starting at the chrome.

If you are sure that there is no lacquer paint or primmer or un catalyzed paint on the car, it would be safe not to strip it.

justsomeguy1

Thanks, I will ask the PO what paint was used.

Thank you

65silververt

I would say it all depends on what was done previously. Did the previous owner strip it down to bare glass? If so and it is base /clear that was applied over a properly prepped body and primer, then no problem.
If that's the case, you are going to want to use 80 grit on the paint in the places it needs filler. After scuffing with 80 grit, apply filler, sand with 80, fill and sand again until panel is level and smooth. Next you will want to apply a good epoxy primer like southern polyurethanes inc. over the areas with filler and block with 180. If you break through into filler, apply more epoxy. After that, wet sand the entire car in 600 minus the areas with primer. I hate to say it, but I usually leave it to the paint shop after that. Without a booth I'm always afraid I'll end up with too much garbage in the clear, so I pay to have my cars sprayed once prep is finished.

DUB

justsomeguy1,

After reading your post...you can do it the way you plan bit in my opinion...there can be some "issues" in your "game plan" that can come back and haunt you in the future.

ASSUMING that the paint job was done correctly initially. And if it is old..with no problems other than some chips and low spots...then using the paint/clear as a foundation is acceptable for the repaint....but...it will depend on how thick your paint/clear is currently.

Do you know what a "bulls-eye" or "ring-out" looks like in paint/body terms??? It is the effect that occurs when a paint job has been prepped....and the prep required that the paint, clear, primer and sealer had to be feathered back and outwards from the damage area...often times going down the the bare body material....thus giving the appearance of what a topographical map looks like....the rings going outwards and getting bigger and bigger. When this happens...because there is NO WAY around it unless you strip everything off down to the bare body...AND these layers of different materials will react to what is going to be applied to it at different rates.

Sometimes...it may appear that the primer being applied is laying down well and not reacting between the layers. Sometimes you may get some swelling or lifting due to the aggressiveness of the solvent in what is being applied...or the coat is going on too heavy and is eating into the previous applied materials.

As long as all of the layers of products applied when it was originally painted..and they actually cross-linked and bonded with each other... you should be fine in that respect. IF when you are prepping..you can see a shiny thin line at the point where two layers of product meet...that would be a concern of mine ..and "could" be an indicator that a sprayed product was applied on the previously sprayed layer incorrectly...and the chemical adhesion failed (if applicable)...due to possibly loosing the "window" of time that required the product to be applied to it would chemically bond and NOT require sanding/scuffing. Did that make sense??? Some products use chemical adhesion thus not require any sanding...as long as they go on in a specific amount of time...thus the term "window"...while others need to cure and be sanded...so it all depends.

Well if you see a shiny line...be aware of it when you go in and apply anything on top of it. This shiny line is where a solvent/chemical can get under it and cause it to swell or lift

Back to the "ring-out" When you prime it and everything goes really well...even over your filler areas...do not be surprised that in 6 months to a year that you might be able to see the "ring-outs" beginning to surface. This is due to the solvents/chemicals of what was in the primer and "what-have-you" applied and the reaction below beginning to fully cure out and settle. Because there is no way that you can count on the different layers of products applied on the car originally all reacting the same...they can not...because they are all different...even though they were formulated to bond with each other...they are not the same. And that is where the problem lies. The primer could be a product that used a hardener to cure...while the paint itself could be totally different..not using a hardener...and then a clear with a hardener...thus the difference in how they will react.

So..with you wanting to go in and fill in low spots....I hope you are not planning on going right on top of the paint with a filler (my opinion...but do as you wish). I know they make products that can go over CURED paint...but I do not trust it in this scenario. Maybe on some other car that is not worth crap...but a 1965 Corvette...I could not do it. And fixing these low spots...depending on where they are located...could cause me to have to go back into it in a year and have to either sand and buff it again..or re-apple clear when it has all settled. Any top surfaces would more than likely show ...versus areas below the center body line...where the sun generally can not beat on it. The car being black is a blessing and a curse. So grinding paint and fixing these low spots will open up for the chance of these "ring-outs" in the future. And...if while prepping the car...I can actually smell solvents coming out...which can occur...because you were not there.... and if the people who painted your car gave the layers of products applied MORE time to cure than what was written in the product information bulletin...you can have some trapped solvents. It is possible.

As for the small chips. I have found that carefully cleaning out the chip..prepping it and applying a filler in the chip and priming over it works out a lot better than feathering the chip and creating the different layers of product exposed...that can cause for the "ring-out" to show. This is also subjective to the depth of the chip(s) in question. A shallow chip..I would feather if only feathering out the clear...if it goes deeper...then I would fill it. Some small stone chips..I mix up my primer and when the chip has been cleaned out with the sharp corner of a razor blade and visually inspected..I use one of my artist paint brushes and fill the spot in with a small dot of primer that I allowed to slightly thicken....so if it on the side of the car...the dot of primer would not run out of the chip.

Then the "fun" will be working out the logistics on how to paint it...where to tape it off..and what panels would need to come off so it looks correct when completed....and TRUST ME...I spend a lot of time getting the procedure all worked out before I even think of pulling a trigger on a paint gun....and I can spend a good day+ in the paint booth getting things ready.

BEST OF LUCK!

DUB

justsomeguy1

WOW... Thank you.... That's a lot of info and I appreciate it. Lots to think about. Yes, I understand the ring scenario. I will spend some time researching the paint job it has and yes, I will have the paint job done by a professional if possible. I say if possible as some people have told me that some shops do not like to paint over a prep job that they did not do themselves. At the very least they will not stand behind it as they would if they did the whole job. Which is perfectly understandable. Thanks again

Roger Walling

A very good and concise report. However not everybody can afford a $12,000 paint job, so what he wants to do will make it a good shinny and 20 footer.

At least you were able to tell him what to expect.

(I actually know someone that painted his split window with straight enamel.)

justsomeguy1

Ok, so if the under surface is good as described and the work is done correctly why would it be a 20 footer. Please tell me in your opinion what would be the way to get a 0 footer.

Thanks

Roger Walling

In a nut shell, $12,000

ATTENTION TO THE FINEST DETAIL

Comparing a $2,000 paint job to a $12,000 job is like comparing painting a porch to a Porsche.

justsomeguy1

See below

justsomeguy1

OK... I never had any use for a nut shell.
However I might some what agree. If I were to pay a restoration shop $12,000.00, would I be guaranteed to get a perfect, attention to detail paint 0 foot paint job.
My question is, how did what I was talking about become a 20 footer/ $2000,00 paint job?
If the BC/CC is an acceptable base and the prep for paint is done correctly and the paint job done well, then cut and buffed... why would that be a $2000.00 20 footer.
Are we trying to say...To offer the best chance at a 0 foot paint job the body should be brought down to the fiberglass and then prepped correctly from there. But that still does not guarantee a 0 footer just best chance of.
My goal here is to gain some of your knowledge which I appreciate and thank you for.

Sniper168gr

DUB is on the money in his post.

Also keep in mind that a black car is the color that shows imperfections the most. This includes panels that were bonded incorrectly, poor body work, body ripples, etc.

If the current surface finish is the only one applied since stripped and done correctly, you would be able to block sand the car down to the primer and reshoot the color coat. However, if there other coats of paint applied or spot painted, the likelihood of problems increases.

Stripping the car down to the fiberglass identifies prior damage and body work and give you a higher probability of a quality job that will last.

Just an FYI in regard why a quality paint job costs so much money on a Corvette is that the prep work performed on the car is all done by hand. Typically powered sanders are only used to remove the prior paint and you must be very careful not to spoil the lines and edges on the car. On a mid year this includes the fender peaks and belt line.

Just to paint the car, the entire body will be sanded down many many times before you are done... For the 1961 I'm doing this also includes door jams, under the convertible top lid, trunk lid, and misc small body pieces.

As an example for a lacquer paint job, with no body work (DUB feel free to add/comment)...

1) Strip the car and then sand to prepare the body for primer.
2) Apply primer and wet/block sand the body to remove ripples
3) Re-prime the body again and block sand the car for paint
4) Paint the car and let paint cure (some may block sand the color coat here) and then paint again
5) Wet sand the body with 600 grit to prepare the car for polish
6) Wet sand the body with 1000/1600 grit to prepare the car for polish
7) Wet sand the body with 1800/2500 grit to prepare for polish

There are a ton of hours described here in this effort. If the base paint job is good, you can eliminate steps 1 & 2 (maybe 3 if you don't go through the primer coat).

DUB

I often times have customers who WANT to have that prefect paint job...until they find out what it takes and how long it is going to take to achieve their demands. Then they begin to back pedal and re-think what they want. It is NOT as easy as some may think. I say it to them like this...and usually most (not all) of my customers wanting PERFECTION are male. When you are going out and buying diamond...and you want a PERFECT diamond....THE BEST...and the jeweler shows you want you WANT and gives you the price....and you choke...but right beside it is a diamond that is NOT PERFECT...but looks darn good...and is MUCH LESS in price...and the difference its not that noticeable to your eye...for the major price difference. What are you going to do? And as a good customer of mine who is a jeweler...he has stated that that perfect diamond will not be perfect any longer when it is mounted in a setting. And the same applies to that perfect paint job when it is out on the street being driven.

DUB

DUB

100%

In steps 1 through 7...even though they were typed out very easily and quickly...the TIME and EFFORT...beginning at step 1 and making it to step 7...can EASILY accumulate 200+ hours...without blinking an eye. Literally a "drop in the bucket" And if the standard of excellence that was decided upon at step 1 is lessened through the other steps...you can not expect the outcome being that of what was initially decided upon. Keeping the quality and attention to detail maintained is VERY HARD....because jobs that are wanting to be 0 footers..can wear on you. A person can spend weeks if not longer on just ONE PANEL. It all depends on what the end result is going to be.

DUB

DansYellow66

You really need to find out what type of paint is on the car now and how many paint jobs it has on it. Plenty of cars have been painted without going back down to bare fiberglass as long as the substrate and existing paint are still sound. And I think labeling the results as a no better than a 20 footer may be a little pessimistic but as pointed out above, you do have a disadvantage in that the car is black. The shinier the paint and he smoother the painter gets it, the more imperfections will show up. But, painting is one of those things were typically you do get what you pay for and really good to excellent is going to cost a lot. You may even have trouble finding a reputable painter who will go along with your scheme - or if they will paint it, they may not warranty it.

justsomeguy1

Thanks guys for all this info and I will act on it. I do not have the skills and will not be doing the paint work, I was just trying to find out if I could do the prep work. I'm rethinking that as I type.

DUB... I went back thru my posts and did not see where I said anything about a rattle can in any way. I think that is why I was not understanding your first remarks. no problem though as I appreciate your info and advice. That is what makes these forums so Great... Thank you

Roger Walling

justsomeguy1'

I think that the "rattle can job" came from your description of the paint job that you wanted to apply to your car. Your thought of the work involved in a paint job are about what someone who uses a rattle can thinks. (No insult intended) Now you know what goes into a quality paint job.

What you described would, though, make your car look better and probably satisfy you. (until you have learned better from this thread.)

vetteLT193

One of the biggest issues with paint is two guys can use the terms 10 foot paint job and they mean totally different things.

I have seen cars that were pretty near perfect be called 10 footers because of a couple of nicks here and there that you need to be really up close to see. I've also seen cars that look like crap up close called 10 footers.

IMO the best thing to do is look at finished cars together with your painter and show him what you find acceptable and not acceptable. If you do this you will be on the same page as to the quality... he can then explain what it will take to do the job up front and everyone will be on the same page.