jusplainwacky

Right out of the gate, I'm confused as to where to start stapling the PAD on the soft top frame.

I have the Al Knoch DVD, but it doesn't show you how far above the horizontal frame (above the windows) the pad should be. Can anyone tell me? (see first picture)

Also on the DVD, Al points to an "indentation" where the pad attaches to the back bow...yet I don't see this "indentation" he is pointing to. Is this it? If it is, it's on the opposite side that Al points to. (see second picture). I'm assuming the pad gets stapled all the way to the end of that indentation. (see second picture)

Also in the video it looks like Gilbert folds the seam over before he staples it. Is this an illusion or do you fold it over? See third pic)

vettnut

I am certainly no expert on this subject. I am doing a 60 now and have plenty of questions myself.

That said, I can give you some tips on how far outward to go with your pad.
Your pads should have come marked by Knoch as to the general placement of the screws and aligment to the bows.
Also, look at the innermost screw hole of the bows. Be certain this screwhole will land inside your pad and not be outside or under your stitched edge. I found this latter problem out myself. Your pad looks to be to far outward.
I have stapled and removed more staples than when I installed 1300 sq ft of Hardwood in our home this last winter.
Hardwood is way more fun.
Yes I agree Gilbert does look like he is stapling the black outside cloth on the pad. He must have redone it when the camera was off. Maybe that's how he starts the pad install then removes the staples?
I am still looking for help on how the rear bow W/strip gets installed/retained on the rear bow for my 60. Hard rubber w/strip. I assume W/strip is installed last?
Hope this helps.

rich5962

jpw, Had a busy weekend and finally replied to more of your emails. Feel free to post my words and/or my pics here if you like.

Yes that's the indentation in your pic where the rear straps and pads end.

Pads sit above the frame but rely on the position where they land on that #4 bow in that 'indentation'. You want a even spacing to the horizontal frame, ends up about 1/4" or so, and so the pads line up properly to the other 3 bows which hold the screws for the pads. The pads are alignment straps for the 4 bows normal positions, as well as being cushions for the top to keep it from rubbing at the stress points. Not super critical measuremnts, but must be set properly to avoid sags and large wrinkles up inside when looking up.

vettnut, I think I just answered your question with the method I use on the other forum.

Rich

jusplainwacky

Hey Vettnut....yea, it does look like he folds it over then staples it, but I believe that's just an illusion. The pad is already folded over and stitched.

rich5962

Now I see where you were confused.

That's correct. It's the edge of the pad already folded and stitched. He puts 3 staples on that thick part where it's rolled over. BTW that's the edge of the depression in the bow. The rear strap goes there too, but remember to make sure it's parallel with the rear window and the same distance to the window vertical.......on both sides.

The rear straps will be already attached to the rear bow by then, then staple on the rag, using those side measurements for locating the correct position. (from the stud center to the window frame vertical at the bottom).

When you reattach the rear bow/rag assembly to the frame, you have to staple the straps to those depressions on TOP of the pads on the #4 bow. Use plenty of staples as much stress happens there. Line up the straps parallel to the window at this step.

When you're happy with these results, then you can get ready to pull the bottom side material into the window frame channel. Pull the 3 screws for the w/strip, and get the material pulled in and punch a hole for each w/strip screw to go back in to hold the material and the w/strip.

Video shows he glues the material to the side vertical frame. I personally don't like to do that, as the 3 screws of the w/strip holds it there just fine. Also helps if no glue is there if you need to "readjust" anything.

Rich
p.s. if your staples are too long in some locations, you can cut them with a small pair of sheet metal shears.

jusplainwacky

Thanks Rich.

For me to get the wrinkles out of the pad, I'm ending up with about 1/2" extra material on the bottom (outside) of the bow. I have traced the frame out in pencil so you can see where the edge of the bow is. Al says they should fit perfectly...is that in perfect world, or do I have something off?

jusplainwacky

Also I am shooting 3/8" staples that Coffman said would work if you shoot them in at an angle...however I think they are too long. Not only that, to shoot them in at an angle, I'd have to shoot them against the pull of the material and I can't get the gun in the channel to do that. You can see from the picture that some of the staples are crimpled...those I had to pull out. See the picture below.

Maybe with the pad they would be fine...but without it, I think I need a short staple. I tried your "shear" idea...didn't work for me.

rich5962

Before you cut anything from the pads, get the rag on the rear bow and test fit back on the frame. Find the center line of the rag "joint" above the window and see where it lines up on the #4 bow and the end of the pad.

If it looks good, then cut the excess off the pad, just inside the lip of the bow edge so you won't see it from underneath. If joints don't match, you may need to move that end pad.

Just be sure of next steps before cutting anywhere.

Maybe get some 1/4" staples. I never shoot at angles. Yes it can help but nearly impossible on most shots.

jusplainwacky

Ok...thanks for sharing your knowledge. Must appreciated.

jusplainwacky

I noticed that the padding is not the same as what they show on the video. Don't know when they (Al Knoch) changed it, but it seems really light weight and easily compressed. Doesn't seem like much padding in my opinion.
Anybody tried this?

rich5962

The foam is used to soften the area where the screws in the bows are. Too thick or dense and you might see the outlines of the pads after completion, which you don't want. Yours looks fine to me.

You could glue 1/4" wide strips of scrap vinyl over the screws to help reduce the screw heads showing up in time. Even with that they'll probably still show on a hot day in the sun.

IMO......It's a "feature" of the design.

jusplainwacky

This is what they use to use...it looks a lot thicker and I would think this would create more of a "smooth" look. What I have looks thin and cheap....but maybe it's better. I wonder why they changed.

rich5962

That stuff was junk.

If it got drunk.

It certainly stunk.

Worse than a skunk.

Don't be a clunk.

Be a monk.

And use the white foam chunk.

jusplainwacky

Thanks for the advice

From a man that certainly has a vice

I'm not taking about some clamp

Or a man on some ramp

Because he wants me to install

Some silly thin foam

And tells me it will fit great over the dome.

jusplainwacky

Just curious....why was it junk? Did it fall apart?

rich5962

if it got wet(drunk) it smells damp and musty, and yes it falls apart. It's made of recycled rags, threads, paper, etc. Same stuff in your firewall insulation and underdash insulation on midyears. Yuk stuff.

jusplainwacky

That makes sense.